soos_mite_ah

July 27, 2020

@bazera A lot of people call that being an ambivert. It means that you're cool with doing both

If you want to get technical with the notion that get you get your energy when you're alone while still liking social stuff, then you're just an outgoing introvert. It's possible to be an outgoing introvert or reserved extrovert. Outgoing and reserved has to do with the way you react in a social setting while introvert and extrovert refers to your energy source. You can get your energy externally and be an extrovert while having that extroversion be expressed in a reserved way where you're just more quiet in a social setting (and vice versa). That's at least what I got from reading about it.

July 27, 2020

Shadows and the Cobwebs of My Mind Pt.2

Being seen as the therapist friend: This was established by the family dynamics present in my childhood. I will refrain from too many details for their sake, even though it is highly unlikely they will ever see any of this. But the over all jest is that I was emotionally in the caring role while I was still a child. Because I was in a chaotic environment I couldn't get out of, I resorted to analyzing people around me. This eased a lot of the frustration/ confusion in regards to "how could someone do such a thing" or "why is ___ the way that they are." I also took on a more therapist work by working on myself because I knew that I wasn't coming out of this house perfectly okay (this caused me to grow immensely as a person independently). Because of that, I'm incredibly good at reading people and finding neuroses, that includes myself and others. I'm good at empathizing with people because I have a range of my personal experiences to choose from. And i give pretty good advice, or so I've been told. Of course, there are blind spots, especially when analyzing yourself so this is not an absolute.

But as of recently, this dynamic really blew up in my face with a friendship. I was always the one supporting and rushing to help. I was too quick to give advice, which isn't the same as empathizing and building a connection. The relationship was incredibly unbalanced and was ultimately draining me. I got out and I took a good hard look at the areas of my life that seemed unbalanced in terms of reciprocity. I eliminated those people and situations and I'm focusing on finding people who are more so on an equal footing for more sustainable relationships.

The notion that I'm unlovable: This was due to a lot of bullying growing up. Most of it doesn't even make sense. I remember as a child when I was 8 years old, i was ostracized by other children because I was seen as "too childish" for liking the shows I liked among other silly metrics. I also had children start spreading rumors that I was adopted because no one could possibly ever want me. My adult brain wants to rationalize this because it's so ridiculous. Essentially, there were a bunch of children, bullying a child, for being a child. Also, me being adopted makes absolutely no sense since I look like my mom. It's all so silly and comical. But I do nevertheless try to tap into that inner child wound, that 8 year old girl who doesn't have much of a sense of self who had a bunch of small children, who also didn't know what they were doing, slap a label on her. She's 8, how could she know better than to take in what the world said about her. She hasn't explored who she is yet. She is still cognitively developing in early childhood. There was no agency in that situation and as I reflected on each of these instances, tears rolled down my cheeks because I was feeling that exact sense of unwanted-ness I felt back then. I also repeated this process with some of the things that I dealt with in my family. I can see how many of my shadows are connected to this notion of me being unlovable. While my adult brain knows better, my inner child just needed to speak her truth through her tears.

This lack of agency in which labels were slapped on to me is what motivated me towards shadow work. I want to consciously choose labels instead of going on autopilot because of what other people have said to me. I know this is simply meaning making but the key is to be conscious of the meaning you are making instead of accepting them as absolute truth. I reread Psycho-cybernetics and I derived so much more from it now than when I first read it since it is so applicable to where I am. Everything is meaningless, and these labels don't exist. I could have easily ended up as something completely different given a simple change of circumstance because I wasn't consciously behind the wheel when these labels were being slapped on to me. It was a circumstance of survival, that's how personality comes up in the first place. I'm not inherently anything. I am nothing, therefore, I can be anything. I am what I choose to be and I choose to be integrated. That notion is empowering but it is also terrifying, especially for the ego that likes to identify with something.

I made a pretty lengthy list on paper of all the ways this particular shadow manifested in my life. I am working on tackling each and every one of them one by one. As I tackled each of these manifestations, I could feel my ego screaming. I felt myself getting depressed which lasted for about a month. The truth hurt but it felt like rubbing alcohol. It burns, but it is being cleansed for the sake of healing. This particular shadow is the linchpin to my other shadows (for instance, like my shadow about being weird, this shadow makes me feel like I am unworthy of connection which is what was implied when I looked back at my past to when this label was first assigned to me). That's why I believe it's been the most painful to come to terms with, the most extensive to work though, and the hardest to integrate.

July 25, 2020

Shadows and the Cobwebs of My Mind Pt.1

I have been more and more intrigued by shadow work in the last few months. I wouldn't say I have a lot of super serious emotional issues as I have sorted out a lot of it though therapy and self development especially in the last year and a half. Quarantine has put me in a more meditative like state because I am stuck with my thoughts all day and I have slowed down considerably. Normally because of the rush of daily life, I suppose the shadows just lurked in the background as my conscious mind was occupied with everything else I needed to do.

Some of my biggest shadows include not being able to express anger, seeing myself as weird, being seen as the "therapist friend," and the notion that I am inherently unlovable.

Not being able to express anger: Growing up I was discouraged from expressing my anger to the point where it was deemed unworthy. On top of that, my parents still expressed their anger and I grew to resent it even more because I could see how destructive it was. It was to the point where I repressed my anger to where I just thought that I simply didn't feel anger. Once I realized it's a shadow, I began to try to take notice of my anger and to analyze what it is trying to tell me. I didn't have anger issues in the traditional sense where my aggression is out of control and unbridled rather it is that I don't recognize anger and instead get depressed. I can say in the last couple months I have stopped demonizing anger in myself and others and this has done wonders. I stopped being afraid of confrontation, I became even more in tuned with my feelings, and I got a better sense of where my boundaries are/ when they are being violated. I would even recognize my reluctance of embracing my anger as a stage red hang up that I needed to integrate effectively by being more validating and accepting of this emotion. These two videos by Teal Swan helped me immensely.

Seeing myself as weird: I had this label slapped on to me as a child pretty early on. Now that I think about it, the label didn't even make any sense and might have had racial connotations to it since I was the only brown kid in my predominantly white school at the time. I carried on that label as I grew up and the label evolved with me. I also learned about how subjective weird can be in different circumstances or how the notion of what is considered "normal" and what is other-ed out can be due to societal power dynamics.

From the time I was 10 to 14, I had what many would call the "I'm not like other girls" phase. I thought I was weird because I wasn't traditionally feminine. This label helped me break out of the stereotype that a woman was portrayed as but the backlash was that I demonized notions of femininity and saw it as less than. I have since became more open to my femininity and have embraced it more.

Then from like the ages of 13-16 I had what I would call my "fake deep" phase where I thought I was ~~~so edgy~~~ for liking alternative music, anime, and other nerdy things. In retrospect I think it's rather silly to think of oneself as so different because of interests but I think this label was beneficial in me being more open minded towards things that may seem more unconventional and building some sense of self. However, the backlash was that I demonized things that were seen as basic or mainstream and since then I have tried to embrace the more basic side of me. Even though it might not always resonate, I do have an appreciation for basic things and can enjoy myself.

Now, I would say the reason I find myself weird is because I think my growth over the years has aged me. I made a whole thread on this subject and I was surprised on how many like minded people I found on this forum. It definitely helped me get over this and integrate the notion that I'm not that weird.

While I did embrace this label and it helped me in numerous ways such as breaking free from stereotypes and being more open minded, I would say that I also used this label as a shield. I faced a lot of rejection from other kids growing up and I started using this notion of being weird as a reason to isolate myself and not relate to others. It was as though if I gave myself the rejection first, I wouldn't have to get it from other people. That gave me a sense of control from the feeling of vulnerability. After realizing this, I began to slowly dismantle this label while still acknowledging that it did serve some purpose in its integration. Unlike the previous label, I am still working through this one. Truly, there is nothing weird about me in the sense that it will stop me from forming connections. It's simply a label I have internalized. Now it's time to pick up a new, more expansive label.

July 25, 2020

Blinding Joy

I took a moment to reflect on the last couple posts. I am noticing how this journal where I record thing that bring me joy is still an egoic response. While joy is a higher quality emotion, one that is more preferable to experience since it is closer to our natural state of oneness, high quality emotions are still a compass pointing us towards survival. That said, that doesn't meant that we throw away the compass, rather it is still important to critique and reflect on what is bringing us joy as it too can have blind spots. I'm thinking of doing this critique and analysis of the things that brings me joy every now and then on this journal.

One thing that brings me joy is the idea of growth especially up the spiral towards stage yellow (systems thinking). The desire to grow is rooted in survival. There are some people who stagnate and that's because growth is not a part of their survival. I think wanting to grow can be used consciously to get us to higher qualities or more sustainable stages of survival, but it is still important to recognize this as a part of survival. If that's the case for a person who sees growth as survival and identifies with it, it isn't surprising that a lack of growth or an ego backlash can hurt the ego and that person's self concept. Instead of fighting it, its important to embrace is and paradoxically it will result in more sustainability and more survival because you aren't constantly beating yourself up for things.

Also, I did mention this on that particular post but it bears repeating

On 7/21/2020 at 6:30 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

I found a thread that really resonated with me. I went a little over board with my comment but I did enjoy writing immensely nonetheless.

I would say that a large reason as to why this probably resonated is because I was raised in a problematic way and I had to take years to heal from negative parenting and learn skills I should have been taught.

Joy can point us towards an authentic sense of survival. Considering this, sometimes we interpret something that scratches any psychological itches or traumas as a sense of joy. Nothing wrong with that, it's just more data to go off of. Whether or not it is problematic can be determined by how healthy or sustainable the manifestation of this form of joy is (again also recall that the words problematic, sustainability, and growth still deal with survival but I digress). Drinking away your sorrows is a lower form of expressing trauma through an addictive, hedonistic, form of joy while acting from the joy of teaching is a higher form of joy even though both indulge in the thought of the same event.

I suppose because of the potential limitations of joy, I can see how something like peace can be seen as a more higher consciousness state as it relates more with being. I wondered why peace was typically placed after joy because I always felt the most expanded when I felt joyful. But now I'm starting to get it more. (also the two emotions in the yellow section are anger and desire since it is hard to read)

Nevertheless, I'm not going to stop pursuing joy. I think it is still important for me to embody it more and have it become my natural setting as I continue to move up.

I do experience everything on this pyramid, but I would say that my default setting, the emotions I feel the most often has moved up as I began working on myself. Right as of now I would say most of my emotions fall between neutrality and joy. I remember at one time a few years ago when I was very depressed my default was between courage and shame. I'm still working through the lower emotions and I doubt they will ever completely go away. I see them as more of a "warning emotion" rather than a "negative emotion." I feel that calling them "negative emotions" causes more resistance to accepting those feelings and makes the ego more likely to tense up while calling them "warning emotions" gives one a sense of agency to fix whatever is going wrong, identify what the emotion is trying to tell you, and helps you distance yourself as the feeler from the feeling itself without negating it (acceptance is a more higher emotion) .

I don't think the "warning emotions" will ever completely go away since they are there to inform but the goal is to build a more sustainable life where you aren't always on edge for something going wrong I suppose so that you can have more time for being. And also to completely negate the lower tier and separate oneself from it is also a form of duality which deters away from being (but then again duality is still a part of nonduality and nonduality is everything)

Ok..... I'm going to stop there and embody what I do know since I think if I keep talking, I'm going to confuse myself and that is going to cause an ego backlash lmao.

Goals for now:

Joy can be informative for where you need to heal and what your survival mechanisms are. It comes in many forms in both higher and lower consciousness so it's important to be critical and draw distinctions.

Peace doesn't have as many limitations as joy and therefore is higher than joy. It is also closer to being. Still, keep your eyes out for it.

Keep an eye out for survival, even higher consciousness forms of it.

I still need to embody joy more as it is the higher bracket of the section of emotions that I feel the most option (which is between joy and neutrality).

July 25, 2020

Bad Systems, Not Bad People

I was researching organ trafficking for my Health as a Human Right Class. As I began to analyze the system, evil and demons ceased to exist. While to do watch Leo's videos and try my best to embody and implement the lessons in those videos, I would say a lot of the ways that I personally learn and grow best is when I see those lessons play out in other areas of my life, especially my studies. I would say for me, Leo's videos a lot of the time plant the seeds of growth but it is moments like these where those seeds really bear it's fruit and resonate with me. Sure this topic in particular does not spark joy in the traditional sense, but I will say that I felt very fulfilled after learning about this topic and having a variety of insights. That feeling of fulfillment and feeling like I'm genuinely learning, that gives me joy. After all, in the end, it is all love.

https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/kidneyville/582b51a56103bde50928d224

While reading and watching videos in class, I compelled myself to try to exercise empathy towards all of the people in this system even if the system itself is corrupt therefore participating in the system is also enabling corruption. I began thinking about the people who are desperate for an organ, who is trying to do everything they can to survive or help a family member survive. The desperation often comes from a failed medical system that creates situations where people have to wait 10+ years for a kidney and sometimes people die waiting. I also thought about the brokers and the poor people who auction and sell kidneys, how their bodies have turned into a commodity because they are simply trying to survive in an impoverished area. This desire for survival often leads to the desperation of falling into corrupt systems that far removed from conscious and that comes with violations of human rights riddled with various power dynamics whether they maybe racial, economic, ablest, or more. It is natural for human beings to look for their best interests and their survival and while what is happening is not okay, I don’t think any party is inherently evil rather the system itself creates and incentives evil.

Even the persecution of the Fallun Gong in China and how their organs are trafficked, which is not okay by any means, also roots back to this desire to survive. From what I learned in my political science classes, I learned that is happening because the CCP, Chinese Communist Party, wants to maintain one party rule because they believe that it’s the most effective way to maintain political stability of the state. To protect this one party rule, often times minorities and poor people get persecuted because they are the ones who are opposing the system, and therefore seen as a threat. This approach is very blue and not very sustainable given that it is one of the main stressors of Chinese politics but it is where they are right now in terms of how the define stability and how they establish it.

I was also thinking about U.S. interests with China and how that relates to survival as well when it comes to economics and security threats. The U.S. is reluctant to interfere with China relations because when two superpowers do get into conflict, it can easily translate to catastrophe in the global scale. Additionally, because the economies are enmeshed, the U.S. would be shooting itself in the foot along with China. If that happens, there is a larger incentive for China to be hostile against the U.S which can lead to more death and destruction. Furthermore, the U.S. has tried to link human rights and economic trade together during the Clinton administration which was known as the linkage policy. That turned to de-linkage since it did not work, especially when it came to domestically liberalizing China in regards to human rights. However, having relations with China did liberalize them in the global scale as they are now currently more open than ever and engagement has prevented a potentially malefic China in terms of U.S interests.

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of the U.S.'s reluctance for addressing these human rights violations is not because of evil, but because of the interests that are involved and the fact that the U.S. swooping in to help with human rights as the global does not work with the anarchic nature of international relations. Those interest are also valid both in survival and in terms of preventing further conflict on a mass global scale such as the possibility of war. It's a hard pill to swallow, but it seems as if it is more sustainable for the system for the U.S. to stay out of it. The Green side of me wants to protest and advocate for the disadvantaged with all my heart and believes that I am in a way immoral for thinking such a thing. However, there is a large part of me that still recognizes that morality/ immorality are part of the ego that wants to be a good person at all cost and that systemically, the most bleeding heart option is not sustainable and could potentially do more damage than good on a systemic level.

What I have come to a conclusion by looking into various sources and by thinking of what I learned in other classes, is that survival does cause a lot of gruesome and unconscious behaviors, none of which is okay and all of which are things we need to take personal responsibility for. As cliche as it is, we are all responsible to be more conscious than the society, family, and individuals we grew up around. And part of the taking that responsibility is not blaming ourselves or pointing fingers, but it is also to critique unconscious systems and how they de-incentivize or even eliminate conscious options (I’m talking about elimination particularly in the case of the poor who don’t have much of a choice to sell their organs, because it is like you sell a kidney or you die and that is also the case of the brokers in third world countries). Definitely there is a gradation of how much people are in the wrong depending on the circumstance especially when considering how little or how much agency they have in their position in the system, but I think it’s more important to evaluate the importance of the political, medical, and economic systems at play than to demonize people.

The ego can cause a lot of destruction, but in order to exercise compassion, I don't think separating the self and the ego is the answer because then you fall into the trap of duality. The ego and self are one and need to be loved as such. And I think one of the ways to accept the ego and refrain from demonizing it is to see how it too acts from love, even though it is a very dense and limited version of love. Nevertheless, it is the love that tries to protect us even at the expense of others. I can empathize with my own desire to survive at any means necessary as someone who is human and who is here experiencing duality. It would be wrong to not extend that empathy to other people and their desire to survive and demonize their way of doing so.

I accept the evil that is in this world, and by that I don't mean that I'm okay with it. Sometimes acceptance doesn't mean that you want things to continue the way they are rather it means you are willing to acknowledge it without your egoic desire to always be good instead of turning a blind eye. After all, in the end, it is all love.

July 23, 2020

@erik8lrl I'm so glad you shared that. I had a similar experience regarding my spiritual experience as well where I felt this boost in advancement as well as self love. When this initially happened when I was 16, it was difficult and it was very lonely and depressing. Eventually i got to a point where I got used to it and then i moved to a point where I made this circumstance really work to my advantage. Because I don't have a steady group of friends, it's much easier for me switch up who I am by growing and developing whereas before i would get caught in and get comfortable with similar dynamics. It's like now, i can really be free to whoever I want. I also feel that now I'm not nearly as codependent on my friendships because I'm so comfortable being on my own. Now I'm not going to just accept any connection that comes into my life just because I want to avoid feeling the pain of loneliness. Rather, now since its more of a want rather than a need, i can more consciously choose friends that really bring value into my life. I have definitely built up a lot of compassion for myself and in turn for others in this journey and I have definitely built up a lot of patience in regards to waiting for people to come into my life. It's not a hopeless situation, like I'm not planning on living under a rock for like 60 or so years lol. I'm sure I'll find people I will click with in perfect timing.

And yall don't know how much more I am at peace after people have shared their experiences in regards to this with me. For a long time, I was trying to troubleshoot, thinking that there was something wrong with me or what I was doing. I guess for some people, this is part of the journey. It isn't good or bad, it just is. And sometimes, in case these, troubleshooting can be another form of resisting.

July 23, 2020

@bejapuskas Maturity and where you are at your life are two different things. You can still be mature and still not have a career, money, etc (maybe you're in beginning stages of figuring out what you want to do etc.). While maturity, age, and life experience may all be correlated with each other, no one factor guarantees the other two. It can get messy at times. I was mainly talking about career and money to illustrate a point on a life stage but characterizing where you are in your life is not limited to that by any means

July 22, 2020

Can a lot of aspects of one's sexuality be rooted one's shadow? Like you aren't in a position to really express a part of yourself during your everyday life, it just comes out in the way you express yourself sexually. I kind of started thinking about this after I saw this video.

From what i got from it, people who are more submissive in real life are more likely to be dominants in bed to embrace that part of themselves while people who are more dominant/ assertive in real life are more likely find freedom in submitting sexually. I wonder if this can be true for other kinks as well outside of BDSM and how they may be a manifestation of a shadow in our day to day lives. Can exploring one's sexuality become a way of identifying shadows for shadow work? What do yall think?

July 22, 2020

Yeah, I had ADD since I was a kid. I was never put on medication so for better and for worse I ended in this position where I simply had to cope with it. One big thing that helped was not seeing ADD as a bad thing and rather seeing it as something that can give you a lot of advantages. Odds are, if you have ADD/ADHD you're not dumb, you have a different way of thinking about things and that isn't always compatible with the systems at hand such as sitting in class room and listening for 2 hours straight. I can see being in a system like that, a system that does not work to your advantage can make you feel like a mess up or like there is something terribly wrong with you. And i want to say there is nothing wrong with you. Here are some positives that I try to focus on with my ADD:

Heightened creativity: it doesn't take that long for me to jump from one topic to another and have an entire network of thought created. It can enable one to find a lot of different connections between subjects

Hyper focus: A lot of people with ADD can do this thing call hyper focus when they find something they are really passionate about and get into the flow state. Growing up, even at the age of 10, I could paint for like 4 hours straight and not feel a thing because I was so into what I was doing. The trick is to find things that you're passionate about and things that you will naturally pay attention to instead of forcing it. I get it isn't always possible, but a little can go along way.

Ability to see patterns: This kind of goes with jumping to one subject to another quickly. If you focus on parallels between subjects when doing that, the things you realize can be pretty profound.

In school, I would suggest developing a good system of note taking and taking notes on all of your readings whether that be in a separate journal or in the margins of the texts. That helped me immensely to focus on my course work and actually retain what was being taught. Time management can also be a struggle so a planner or similar system is always helpful. I personally just keep a to-do list. Also, during the times when I feel like I am in a better place to focus, I try to knockout as much work as I possibly can so when time comes and I can't focus at all, I have that extra time to deal with my ADD.

Spiritually helped me a little with my ADD, but I wouldn't say immensely. And I think that's partially because there was nothing wrong, nothing that really needed to be healed in the first place. It's perfectly natural and it was a mechanism that helped humans survive, especially in nomadic tribes. The only thing different is that now we are in a system/ environment that makes it a disease. Sometimes our weaknesses can be the source of our greatest strengths.

July 22, 2020

8 minutes ago, Moon said:

I thought it would be...?

doesn't mean people who do it are purely stage red (they're probably only a small % red if living in western society)

if it's consensual and somewhat safe, it's better than some of the other manifestations of red it could've been

I feel like green people are more likely to be into BDSM compared to say blue and orange people who get freaked out about it (at least from what I've noticed). BDSM might be red, but i think a lot of green people are into it because they feel that they can express their red shadow in a healthy setting with consent. Not sure if that makes 100% sense but it's just a thought.

July 22, 2020

@JosephKnecht @pdude I defiantly agree, ultimately it comes down to maturity. But what I'm trying to say is that maturity isn't the only factor that is at play here. It also comes down to where you are at your life. Let me explain with a couple examples so it makes more sense.

When I was in high school, my friends and I were surrounded by college guys (we had a program at our high school where we could get dual credit through taking college classes so that we can graduate with a two year degree along with a high school diploma). When we were 15/16 years old, a lot of my friends had crushes on the college guys who were around us (they were around 18-20 ish). These girls were like "oh damn he has an idea of what he wants to do and have an actual conversation." And don't get me wrong, these girls were also mature for their age, and definitely more mature than the guys in my grade who still would lose their shit over fart jokes. But fast forward a few years when we are all 18/19 years old, we look back at these guys like, *ok that wasn't super impressive because it is normal to have some idea as to what you want to do at that age, that's the bare minimum, its not something to romanticize and put on a pedestal* But it's like, they were putting these guys on a pedestal because they weren't sure on what they wanted to do with their lives yet compared to these guys. And to an extent that's normal when you're 15 and are still at the stage where you are learning about yourself so it's not like they were in the wrong. They were doing what they're supposed to do and that's fine. But there was still a power differential because of age gap which does have to do with your life stage often time.

I found myself into a similar situation last year. I decided it *f- it I'm going to date an older guy what can possibly go wrong* I was 19 and I dated a guy who was 23. It's not a crazy age difference, I mean it was only 4 years. Maturity wise, I'd say I clicked with him better than any guy i tried to message on tinder who was my age whose idea of dating was sending a "u up" text at 3 in the morning. I would go as far to say that it was probably one of the best dating experiences I have had. He was a great guy and I will agree that age isn't inherently a red flag, but it can come with a warning label. I doubt there was any malicious intent, he was extremely respectful and didn't play any games, but it's like I couldn't relate to where he was in his life. He had a whole career, had his car paid off, was completely financially independent etc. I was a college student who just finished her freshman year and who eats pizza rolls because I procrastinated on a paper and didn't have time to go to the dining hall. I still have yet to secure a steady job and a career because I am still exploring my options as a college student. There is nothing wrong with that, each of us are just doing what's normal for our stage of life. After the 3rd date, it felt as though we ran out of things to talk about since we were in different places as far as life experiences went. I simply told him that I wasn't feeling and we both respectfully moved on. Maturity wise it was fine, the difference was at our life stages, which can lead to an imbalanced power dynamic. I didn't stick around that long to get caught up in that type of thing because I didn't want to take a chance. You don't always have to have malicious intent to get into a situation that could turn unhealthy in the long run.

3 hours ago, pdude said:

Lately my 27yo old friend fall for 18yo girl from his work. So he started to aquaint with her. The even go date several times. Everything was going smoothly until she asked him about his age and then "eewww you so old hehehe". Then she teased him and eventually they broked. What the matter? I know him as decent guy and sure that he did not have "dirty" intentions. And now you talking about this here. I just don't understand such thing.

Yeah I would say that this is a terrible, and rather immature way of dealing with a situation like this. I would imagine teasing someone about this type of thing can easily turn awkward and cringey, so I'm so sorry about your friend. I'm sure he didn't have any "dirty intentions" but I'm just trying to explain how it feels like on the other end, not as a woman, but as a younger person getting into a situation with a person who is much older. I'm not trying to argue, i'm just presenting my perspective for anyone else who might be viewing this thread.

I can't say that i've had the equivalent of that happening to me but when I do reveal to a guy I'm talking to that I'm young and he turns out to be older than i expected, the energy shifts from flirtatious to "YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A GOOD KID." I actually had one guy say that to me and yeah it was a bit weird considering we were flirting for like a couple hours before that lmao.

July 22, 2020

Also i just remembered that Leo does talk about this in this video.

He talks about education specifically from the 1 hour 45 min mark to the 2 hour 10 minute mark.

July 22, 2020

@Tanster I can't say I have all the answers but moving kids up the spiral would mainly have to do with integrating the different colors. A lot of it has to do with parents raising their kids but similar tactics can be used when it comes to teaching as well I suppose.

Overall, i think the theme would be the same: the focus on critical thinking. Instead of like most schools that make you memorize a bunch of facts like "the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell," it's important for kids to know how to apply the knowledge that they are being given. Instead of hoarding information it should be about giving them the tools to analyze what is happening in the world.

One thing that I would credit to really shifting my consciousness is when my music teacher in the 8th grade told my class something along the lines of "hey, what you're learning in school whether it is about music, science, history, whatever you're going to forget 90% of what you learn and it isn't going to matter. What matters is that you learn how to learn and take in information. " She went on this whole thing of how music helps you develop your brain and cognitive functioning, how science and math helps you be more logical and methodological, how history classes teach you to see the past as a bunch of case studies that indicate the patterns of present day thinking etc. It changed the way I looked at different subjects.

Even though I am terrible at most science subjects, because of the approach to critical thinking i took when studying, I may not remember everything or know the nuances in scientific studies but I do know enough to sense bs claims when i encounter them (flat earthers, climate change deniers, how its okay to not go without a mask amidst a pandemic because its a hoax etc.)

When it came to history, some of the history classes i hated the most involved straight memorization (what year did ___ happen, who was the general in ____ war ). Some of the history classes I did enjoy the most involved more critical thinking (how did this legislation impact ______. What does the power structure here say about the narrative in question? This is a concept/ theme that carries out in this time period and set the foundation for today etc)

With English classes, learning how to communicate and analyze different points of view in literature is more important than memorizing passages from historically significant authors for instance.

I could go on and on about other subjects but i guess my point is knowing to apply knowledge to create a tool kit of ideas > straight memorization. Apart form spiral dynamics, regardless of which stage a kid might be it, giving them the tools to progress on their own is key. It isn't always what material is being taught rather it is how it is being taught.

Also, when teaching critical thinking I think it's also important for educators to deeply understand that kids aren't stupid and helpless. Sometimes I can see how it might feel that way but it often has to do with a lack of life experiences. Most kids i feel have the potential or have hints of green and yellow in them but they don't always come out because of their current situation (i.e. an ineffective education system that does not hone in their capabilities). It's kind of like a gene that hasn't been activated yet. A lot of kids have the ability to be compassionate and empathetic such as your example with the beggar and they have the ability to be imaginative for different systems, even if they aren't educated on all of the factors yet, because they have yet to become cynical with age. And to avoid this cynicism from the education system, it's important for teachers to not talk down on them and push a cynical attitude as well.

As far as systemic changes, that would depend on where you're from. I know in the U.S. there is standardize testing. It irritates all of the students and stresses out teachers because funding is dependent on it. This is especially annoying when it comes to lower income areas because then all of the teachers get fixated on making sure everyone does well for a once a year exam so that the school won't lose funding than actually teaching the course. I remember being taught how to take a multiple choice exam for an English class for most of high school and then towards the end of the year, once testing was over, it felt like we were actually learning something. It was kinda sad. I couldn't help but wonder how much we could have learned delved into if we didn't have this stupid testing where 75% of our lessons for the year revolved around learning to eliminate answers in a multiple choice exam.

Also availability of proper mental health care is also important in schools because of the backgrounds kids come from (like having an actual therapist in addition to a counselor). I remember once I was having an existential crisis when i was 16 and because i couldn't get therapy, i went to the school counselor. She tried to help but i quickly realized that she is probably wasn't the best person to go to since it felt like I was talking to a pinterst board that spit out random cliche quotes like ~follow your heart~ ~live laugh love~ lmaoo. It felt ineffective and I could see why people might be reluctant to get professional help with lackluster experiences such as these. If you come from a toxic, lower consciousness household, mental health is a huge must. That could possibly help kids from getting emotionally left behind and give them the tools of conflict resolution in their friend groups for instance.

July 21, 2020

I found a thread that really resonated with me. I went a little over board with my comment but I did enjoy writing immensely nonetheless. A large part of education I believe has to do with the beliefs you were brought up with in regards to the world, other people and perspectives, and yourself. It isn't something that is limited to reading, writing, and memorizing a bunch of facts.

I would say that a large reason as to why this probably resonated is because I was raised in a problematic way and I had to take years to heal from negative parenting and learn skills I should have been taught. I took up that work as soon as I left my house at the age of 18. It was difficult and grueling work but it was very worth it. If i ever decide to have kids, I don't want them to deal with a fraction of the trauma and difficulty I had to sort out. I want to take responsibility and break as many cycles of toxicity as I can. It may not be perfect but it is a progression. And that means raising them in a conscious way. While I do enjoy self-development and do for conscious reasons, I'd say that passion originated from necessity early on which I will probably address in another post. But for now, I'm going to link the thread and copy and paste my reply on how to consciously raise kids right here:

Ok I have wondered the same thing tbh. Here is what I think. I know this is long but I really contemplated about this in the past because if I choose to have kids, I want them to have an easier time developing than I did with my parents.

You don't have to necessarily movie to a Scandinavian country to raise your kid in a stage green/yellow way. I think what you do inside your house is incredibly important. If anything, I think it's a good idea for kids to witness how different people from the spiral act to sharpen their critical thinking skills. From personal experience, my home life was pretty orange/blue, my neighborhood was green, and I went on many trips to India to visit family, many of whom who are very solidly blue. So i was surrounded by numerous perspectives. My dad, whom I will credit to helping me move up the spiral, helped me hone in my critical thinking skills to evaluate how each of these perspectives compare and work with each other even though neither one of us were aware of Spiral dynamics at the time.

Even though my dad was very blue and orange, he still had a little bit of green and a slight bit of yellow in him. It was just enough to spark something in me. I would say that if you are pretty well integrated to green or higher, it would be easier to guide your child towards critical thinking rather than solely relying on obedience like blue or orange might (blue is largely dogmatic while orange is oriented around a hierarchy).

So parenting should be focused on building and developing critical thinking skills so one would be prepared to handle the adult world by him/herself and deal with any problems that might come up.

That said, I think it's also important to incorporate the lower stages in a healthy way so that the kid can integrate all of the colors. This would be a more yellow approach because while it doesn't see a false equivalency with how high or low a color is, it sees the value of each one of them as a building block. Beige is simply integrated by innate survival mechanisms, so that is basically providing for your kid. Purple is building a bond with the kid when they are still a child so that they have a healthy attachment style to their family/tribe. I remember seeing else where on this forum where people asked if it's possible to skip stages. I think everyone does go through all the stages. Many of us went through Beige to Red at an early age in a healthy way so it feels like we skipped it if that makes sense.

Red is the more ego-centric stage which starts at around age 2 ish (i gotta refer back to developmental psych so i may not know the specifics but it starts young). Egos at this stage are still very important in developing a healthy sense of self. After all, to transcend the ego, one needs to have a well integrated ego in the first place. Around this time and onward, i think its important to build a healthy sense of self with positive reinforcement and a lot of encouragement (telling your child he/she is valued, loved, beautiful, smart etc.). This is important in combating future negative beliefs.

To pass this stage on to stage blue, it's important to have solid boundaries with the kid (i.e. no hitting, no screaming, no *insert destructive thing that small children tend to do). This incorporates a sense of discipline in the child in a firm way. The more efficiently stage red and blue are integrated, the faster you can delve into additional spiral stages. Blue/Red should be stages, not what you do permanently going forward so even though i am saying firm boundaries are important to have, i don't mean indoctrinate your kid into a religion or tell your teenager that they can't to xyz because "you said so" etc.

If this is done right, the kid can probably get into orange and green pretty early (like 6 or 7). I think orange can be integrated by having chores, encouraging productivity in school, learning to be assertive/ standing up for you self etc and really building good habits that will aid in their success going forward. Also, here I think it's important to reduce the "because I said so" attitude as much as possible and instead when enforcing rules, explain to your kids the logic behind the rules. I think at a certain stage it is counter productive to be authoritarian to a kid because then they'll start to rebel often because the rules don't make sense to them. This especially happens with the "because i said so" attitude because firstly it is condescending (not good for establishing open communication, trust, or credibility), and second, at around stage orange, kids will question their parents not necessary in an argumentative way but to understand. As the parent it is important to back those claims up with some sound answers instead of getting your ego into a twist and accusing them of arguing and "talking back". This aids in their critical thinking skills and even if they don't follow what they said, you still planted the seed of what to expect so they can learn by making their own mistakes.

Green, i think can be introduced as early as 5 or so depending on the situation. For example, if your kid comes up to you at age 5 asking you "where do babies come from" you can take a stage green approach and explain how the sperm meets the egg and the baby form in the womb (instead of going into how sex works since that may not be age appropriate and most kids aren't even thinking in that train of thought).

Speaking of which, green parenting is very positive, encouraging of different cultures, etc. Some ways to integrate green is encouraging self love, having an open dialog about sex in age appropriate ways, critiquing things in the media (like watching TV with your kid and asking them about what they saw and how it relates to treating other people well), encouraging boundaries for privacy and bodily autonomy (praising your kid when they tell an adult that they aren't comfortable with hugs and they let that adult know for example), regulating emotions effectively yet not suppressing them. Encourage them to empathize with other people and see their perspectives and emotions when they get in trouble with others. Create a space where they can open up and vulnerable about their lives with you so that you can guide them through life instead of being like an authoritarian dictator. That also means being attuned with their mental health and how they are coping with the world around them. Those are some ways but im pretty sure there is so much more. Avoid stigmatizing things and creating taboos as they can create shadows in your kids.

As far as yellow goes, it comes down to judging where your kid is in the spiral and adjusting how you parent to integrate the previous stages accordingly. It comes down to what is developmentally good for the child in the long run so that they can be functioning adults. Once the other stages are exhausted and integrated efficiently, stage yellow shouldn't be too hard to reach. Often times, in respective of my personal journey, I find that an effective way to move from green to yellow is to integrate anything you might be missing from the lower stages to where you can see the healthy use for each of them. Another way is to encourage thinking about how things work systemically and some of the short comings of green. To do all of this effectively, the child needs to move through each stage at their own pace so results can vary depending on individual circumstances.

Finally, when the kid has a healthy ego with minimum shadows and can see how relative different perspectives are, they can transcend that and move into turquoise. Idk how that would turn out but i think it's good to drop hints about things like nonduality etc. in passing so that the seeds are planted and the kid can explore them at their own pace.

July 21, 2020

Also I thought this was a very cute, wholesome, higher consciousness way of dealing with kids ☺️

July 21, 2020

Ok I have wondered the same thing tbh. Here is what I think. I know this is long but I really contemplated about this in the past because if I choose to have kids, I want them to have an easier time developing than I did with my parents.

You don't have to necessarily movie to a Scandanavian country to raise your kid in a stage green/yellow way. I think what you do inside your house is incredibly important. If anything, I think it's a good idea for kids to witness how different people from the spiral act to sharpen their critical thinking skills. From personal experience, my home life was pretty orange/blue, my neighborhood was green, and I went on many trips to India to visit family, many of whom who are very solidly blue. So i was surrounded by numerous perspectives. My dad, whom I will credit to helping me move up the spiral, helped me hone in my critical thinking skills to evaluate how each of these perspectives compare and work with each other even though neither one of us were aware of Spiral dynamics at the time.