aurum
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I've been compiling a list of insights I've had around “neediness” and relationships. In particular, I feel that neediness has become a bit of a bad word on this forum, so I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Some of my influences in writing this were Dr. Marshall Rosenberg (Non-Violent Communication), Teal Swan and Charles Eisenstein. You may wish to check out their work if you resonate with what I've written here.
Would love to hear what you think!
**Note**
I will be using the word “need” is a colloquial way that is synonymous with the word “want”.
**Note 2**
This advice should be read with extra discernment by those with anxious attachment style or enmeshment trauma. It's also not for people in abusive or codependent relationships. If you're in these situations, please honor your needs and consider leaving. I am mostly concerned here with helping move people from independence to interdependence.
1. Non-Neediness vs non-neediness
We can think of capital Non-Neediness in a Absolute spiritual sense. God is without self and form, yet simultaneously is all things. It is without lack, including even the ability to lack. Therefore we could say God needs nothing. It is Complete. From this perspective, all needs are in fact imaginary, as life itself is a thought in the Mind of God. You as this ego are a thought.
We can think of lower case “non-neediness” as more of a relative non-neediness. If I just ate a huge meal, I don't need food at that moment. If I just slept 8 hours, I don't need to sleep more. Needs in this category are generally finite and satiable. They are the needs we are mostly concerned with.
We can tap into the Absolute perspective of Non-Neediness, which grounds us. It's sort of a “checks and balance” to living as this finite form.
But as a finite entity, perfect non-neediness is impossible to achieve. Even if we are only imagining our neediness. Which brings me maybe the single most important point in all of this...
2. All human relationships are based on meeting needs
Asking people to be totally non-needy in relationships is asking people for the impossible. We cannot not have needs in relationships.
In fact, if there are no needs being met, then there is no relationship at all. Needs create relationships. If I truly need nothing from you, and you need nothing from me, there is no reason for us to have a relationship.
*note* don't confuse this with a “harsh pragmatism” that sees the world purely from a utilitarian perspective. Your needs actually go far beyond this. Contribution is a need. Love is a need.
3. You cannot meet all your needs on your own
This may be the most controversial piece of this post.
We are often taught in spiritual circles to love ourselves, be sovereign, be whole and complete, and to not be attached to anything. Peace comes from within. But these truisms can easily get misconstrued.
Not only is it impossible for you to meet all your basic survival needs on your own (food, shelter, clothing, etc), I am going to go one step further. You cannot meet all your emotional needs on your own.
People who love themselves and who feel whole and complete do not just sit in a room loving themselves. It's because they love themselves that they seek out and meet their needs. Which often involves others. Self-love includes having others meet your needs, not excludes it.
**Note** yes, at the highest levels of nonduality where the distinction of “self/other” collapses, this line gets blurry and nonsensical. But it is still practical to make this distinction for our purposes here.
4. You can either meet your needs consciously or unconsciously
There are two choices regarding your needs:
a) Meet your needs consciously and deliberately
or
b) unconsciously manipulate your way to meeting your needs.
There simply is no option to be non-needy. Often when people talk about being non-needy, they are only doing so as a strategy to meet their needs. They've learned that when they act not-needy, they (sometimes) get their needs met.
When we meet our needs consciously, we can often build synergistic and win/win scenarios with others. We actually become psychologically healthier and can avoid many of the toxic elements of neediness.
When we manipulate and go unconscious, it often falls into lose/lose scenarios. Our neediness becomes more toxic and damaging to others.
5. Clarity of needs is key
What do we really need?
Much of the toxicity of “neediness” comes not from having needs themselves, but on poorly answering this question.
We mistake what we really need all the time. We may think we need a mansion, the latest gadget, or another partner. The potential list of what we could think we need is endless. And due to a lot of trauma and social programming, this list is often thoroughly misguided.
If we due not distinguish what our true needs are vs what we have been unconsciously programmed with, that is a recipe for disaster both individually and collectively.
What I've found is that most of my real needs are incredibly basic. They tend not to be flashy. Simple things will do just fine.
So while it is possible that this clarity will reduce the number of needs you have or tone them down, that is NOT the goal. We are not seeking to get rid of needs. We are seeking clarity, and to let the needs fall where they may. If a surrendering is needed, it will then take place naturally once proper clarity is found.
6. Commitment requires neediness
To commit to a relationship with someone is inherently needy. When we are non-committal and prioritize optionality, it allows us to keep things non-needy. No one is investing too much. We can always change our minds.
But when we commit to someone, we are investing. It is no longer non-needy. And yet, the strongest and most fulfilling relationships are based in equally strong commitment. Commitment in a relationship allows for repair when inevitably the relationship struggles.
7. People want to be needed
This one also goes a bit against the grain. We are told to be non-needy because no one wants to feel pressured. Better to play it cool.
And certainly there is some truth there. Coercion or making demands is usually socially unpopular. But in our attempts to play it cool or maybe be seen as “alpha”, we often overlook an obvious point. People want to be needed.
To be needed means you are valuable or desirable. It makes people feel like they are bringing something to the table, even if it's just being themselves.
8. Needing people is where you will find your greatest joy
There is a real payoff from isolation that must be acknowledged. That payoff is that you will stay safe.
Alone, there is no conflict. No differing agendas or opinions. No one who can let you down or hurt you. No one who can break your heart. No one who can judge you. You can more easily feel into who you truly are, away previous cultural programming.
And in this, there is a certain safety.
It's important to not demand the part of ourselves that desires this safety to give that up. If that is you, stay safe as long as you need.
But eventually some of us will inevitably ask ourselves, is safety our highest priority?
Could we maybe redefine safety not as avoiding conflict, but as including it? Could we be safe while still in the jungle that is relationships?
Because that is where the most fun is. The complimenting and collaboration of unique forms IS part of the point of being alive and in this world based in duality.
But this requires that we NEED each other. And all the vulnerability that goes along with that.
9. Our social problems come from a lack of meeting needs
Why climate change? Why homelessness? Why racism? Why pandemics?
These are, of course, extremely complex problems. A full discussion of this is beyond this post.
But I will offer one lens here to view these problems, which is a lack of us truly meeting our own needs as well as others. When these shadow needs run unconsciously, it can create havoc socially.
It is true that win/win scenarios can be good for those involved but bad for the collective. For example, a corrupt government official and a CEO who work out a deal that is good for both of them, but bad for the country.
However, even in a case like this, the problem is that not ENOUGH needs are being taken into account. They are not accounting for the needs of the whole country, just for a small percentage of people.
10. Telling the truth and honest dialogue requires addressing needs
If you do not feel that a person you are talking with is taking into account your needs, you will not listen to them. And that goes equally for the person talking to you.
But when everyone's needs are known and on the table, and people feel these needs are being taken into account, it's amazing the dialogue that can open up.
We sometimes like to hit people over the heads with the “hard truth” of our opinions. This often never goes far in convincing people, and then we blame them for being closed minded. But often in these scenarios, there are no needs being taken into account by either party.
We have to understand that giving harsh feedback is earned through trust and relationship. And this can only occur if needs are being addressed.
11. Intimacy requires neediness
If I don't know what you need, then I don't understand you. And if I don't understand you, we don't have intimacy.
So we must know what this person you are in a relationship needs. This causes the person to feel seen, understood, and builds trust. And while intimacy is certainly more complicated that someone knowing your needs, it is nonetheless a necessary prerequisite.
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Yep that’s our stage Orange culture showing itself.
Some people deal with it by doing what your interviewers are doing, i.e basically just going along with it because you have to pay your own bills. Otherwise you have to find a company that is more conscious or create your own business. Those are really your only options.
If you decide to create your own business, it can still pay to have a job for a while to keep you financially a float. But you have to be planning your exit strategy at the same time.
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7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:It's not really a belief. It's just that without sex there basically is not enough investment from her to constitute anything that would be worth calling a "relationship". Sex is what makes things serious. Until then it's just games and no commitment.
You just said “it’s not really a belief” and then went on to state a bunch of beliefs.
7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:I don't have a rule about it per se. I just know from experience that you don't have a chicken until your egg is hatched, and sex is the hatching of the egg here. Many eggs don't hatch, so calling them chickens is jumping the gun.
You say you don’t have a rule about it, but it feels to me very much the opposite. It feels very much like you are at least somewhat closed off to the possibility of a relationship before sex.
Maybe I am wrong. But that’s my read.
7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:I'm not saying you should chase after the most girls.
But it’s sort of implied by saying that if you don’t sleep with her first, you will lose some girls. The implication being that dating is numbers game where we should seek to maximize our potential odds of success. Which I also disagree with.
7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:But even to get that one solid girl you gotta break some eggs and you gotta sleep with her.
This is another belief about dating and how relationships work. And I know it comes from PUA / red pill thinking because I was taught the same thing.
But you don’t have to actually do that. It’s really more of a power game than anything else, born out of having poor boundaries in the past. And it’s potentially toxic by making people feel like they need to have the upper hand.
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3 hours ago, somegirl said:@aurum has some valid points, I'm impressed.
?thanks!
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32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:But it is sorta the case that plenty of women don't reward decent behavior in men very well. The whole, nice guys finish last. There is truth in that.
How are we defining “nice” or “finish last”?
I find these are really vague terms.
In general, if a woman is messing around with guys who are narcissistic or otherwise unhealthy, I take that more as her trauma than an objective truth about women. And it doesn’t sound like the kind of person I’d want to be in a relationship with anyway.
35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The reward is not just sex, but the relationship itself. There can't be a relationship without the sex first.
This is where we diverge then.
I think this “no relationship without sex first” belief is a toxic for guys looking to get into healthy relationships. If you’re into PUA, then it’s a great belief.
And I’m not saying everyone must now wait until they’re married until they have sex. What I’m really trying to convey is that I don’t have a rule about it. The rule comes from insecurity.
41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:I have lost plenty of girls who I wanted relationships with but the sex never happened therefore the relationship never happened either.
And I have too. We all have to work at properly putting forward our intentions and being vulnerable.
But you can also miss relationships from insisting that sex must come first.
47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:Except it doesn't necessarily come. Women are fickle and change their moods and minds easily. So dragging it out means you will lose some girls.
Sure, if you’re in a night club and you’re trying to pick up girls. Then you definitely benefit from a more aggressive approach. That’s undeniable.
But the world is not a night club.
And ultimately, I’m not trying to act in a way that will get me the MOST girls. I’m interested in a solid relationship, which means only one person. So the percentages and calculations about what works the most number of times doesn’t matter to me. I trust the universe to bring who is right into my life, just like it always does. Regardless of “odds”.
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No, I haven’t transcended “unjust” dating. But it is possible to transcend a lot of the bitterness relative to this topic.
All relationships are based on meeting needs. To ask people to not be selective about who they date is the equivalent of asking them to enter into a relationship where their needs won’t get met. Which will never happen if both parties are relatively conscious.
The good news is that pretty much anyone is capable of ending up in a relationship where they are relatively fulfilled and their needs are being met. There may be some rare outliers, like perhaps people with severe physical deformities. But this is such a low percentage of the population it’s not worth forming a world view around how unjust the dating world is. And even people in these extreme outlier examples can still find happiness,
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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:I love the boyfriend frame. It's just a shame that girls punish it's implementation by withholding sex or even mistaking it for neediness. You are sometimes forced to play the player frame to get the hotter girls because the boyfriend frame can come off too needy or clingy -- not edgy enough.
My worry here is that this sets a potentially toxic “battle of the sexes” frame.
If we believe that women are “punishing us” for essentially being better human beings, then maybe our problem is not women. But what we are men are defining as our “reward”.
If our reward is sex as quickly and easily as possible, then that might be true. You’re better off looking like a player who she has no possible future with.
But actually, if our reward is a deep, meaningful relationship and intimate experience that fulfills us, then it might be right to wait to have sex. It could actually make it “more special”. Not by suppressing anything, but by feeling into the natural timing of things and not forcing anything.
For puas, their goal is as much sex as fast as possible. So of course this doesn’t interest them.
But if guys weren’t in scarcity around sex, like a lot of women, then waiting isn’t a scary thing. You know it’s coming. So you want the full experience. Not just to get it in as soon as possible.
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I don’t think you had bad intentions. But most women are not going to feel great about having sex with a guy they just met and then leaving right after. Especially outside of a party context where something like that might be more acceptable.
So you’re not an asshole. You just misread her perspective on this.
I know she said “yes” when you asked to her leave, but that doesn’t she won’t feel bad about it later. Very unlikely she would impose and turn down your request.
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1 hour ago, Hardkill said:So, then do slutty girls only makeup 5% of all of adolescent and adult females throughout the entire world?
Have shows like Sex and the City been exaggerating many women's desire to have casual sex?
Also, what about the millions of girls out there in the world who are on apps such as Tinder, Bumble, Pure, fwbdr, etc. to find a guy to hookup with for fun?
Furthermore, why does this female dating coach say in this vid that there are plenty of women out there who are not looking for a serious relationships or to get married ASAP or have babies and instead want to have non-committal sexual relationships?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9tBNhXQ8Sc
Why have both male dating coaches like Locario said that fuckbuddies are important for guys to have before you start considering getting into a serious relationship with a girl?
Even his girl in that vid straight up talked about how great it was when she had a fuckbuddy.
Because all these videos are made for guys.
The more you believe that women are out there looking for casual sex, the more you will be able to find it. It suits your needs to believe it.
But Leo is right. Sure, women enjoy sex. And they might settle for casual sex at times. But really what most of them want is an intimate relationship, which is also where the sex becomes the most enjoyable for them.
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22 minutes ago, zazen said:I only found out later after we talked and decided to be friends that she's been on some medication for depression/anxiety that was mostly caused by the stress of the situation.
This is a shitty thing for her to blame on you. Red flag IMO.
Sure, maybe the situation is stressful and you could have acted better. But if she needs medication, there is something much deeper she is struggling with than “this guy I slept with once won’t be my boyfriend”.
25 minutes ago, zazen said:In this situation, would you think its right for me to stay friends or would that just remind her of me again and again only keeping her more depressed or should I cut contact cold turkey, or slowly over time and let her handle her emotions? I'm not sure how she became so emotionally attached after only sleeping together once. Was it maybe the stress of what the friend group think or may judge her for sleeping without getting a relationship out of it?
I think I’d release her into the wild in this case.
I’m all for friends. But she already said she doesn’t want that. So probably best to just drop the whole thing and for both of you to find someone more compatible.
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6 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:Makes sense!
So how do you see this recent obsession with the g spot? Trying to go in in an angle upwards (when she is on the back). Has this become a bit of an overly simplified way of looking at sex? Is there even any guarantee that her g spot is there or could it also be on the side or non-existent?
Anyway you'd probably go about finding this out in the way you described above.
I’m sure there’s something to the g-spot. You can read anatomy books and learn all about that. In fact I’d recommend that.
But that’s for OUTSIDE the bedroom to think about.
When you’re in it, then you’ve got to forget about all that. And just be present.
Sex is way, way more than just a scientific, surgical game of pressing the right physical buttons.
Consider that there are tantric practitioners who can give their partners full-body energy orgasms without even touching them.
So this obsession with trying to do everything right in terms of the physical is very limiting.
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It’s all about reading her and what she seems to be receptive too.
If you’re attuned to her body, a lot of the time she won’t need to say anything. Although words can certainly help and play a role as well.
And the corollary to that is being attuned to your own body’s impulses. Attunement to her cues manifest as cues in your own. So you’re impulsive, but also hyper aware.
From there anything is fair game. Faster, slower, deeper, shallower, circles, straight, harder, softer, whatever. It’s all on the table. You could potentially even just penetrate and sit there.
Pick your tool and have at it.
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2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:@aurum Great advice. You are totally spot on the cause and effect chain
.
Thanks!
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1 hour ago, Vrubel said:Update:
I sent her: Eey (name), let's meet up
she replied with:
"I don't get it, so you do want to be friends?"
I want to reply:
I never do this but for you I can make an exception
or
Sure, let's meet as friends(I will reply the next day)
I’m not really a fan of the first text you sent. But too late now I suppose.
Controversial opinion: I would have no problem keeping her as friend. Having female friends is great.
Guys who have been traumatized by “friend-zone” are so paranoid about this.
But here’s the key. If you’re going to be her friend, ACTUALLY be her friend.
By that I mean, don’t secretly be trying to hook up with her. Consciously and proactively make the decision for things to be platonic.
The problem is, that’s probably not what you want. You’re going to say “sure, let’s be friends!” but secretly be resentful. Especially since it’s clear you obviously want something sexual with her and she is the one turning it down.
So you’ve got to do one or the other. Either really lean into the friends thing and own it. OR go the other way, and tell her you’re not interested in being friends, you have plenty of those already. And then move on if that’s what she really wants.
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On 10/10/2021 at 9:37 AM, museumoftrees said:I don't mind spending hours with a girl, in fact I love it. I've just noticed that time spent with one girl doesn't increase the connection. Creating connection and intimacy isn't usually a problem for me, displaying safety isn't either. It's mostly lack of forwardness from my part and i've been contemplating recently how I spend too much time without making a move. So right now i'm kind of swinging my pendulum to the other side and pushing myself to not wait to make things happen.
And that’s fair enough. A lot of guys struggle with putting forward their intentions in a healthy way. I know I definitely have. So it’s good that we got some serious answers in this thread.
But keep in mind that this does not necessarily mean you aren’t approaching girls like a starving dog.
Being a starving dog that is very good at pretending it’s not starving is very different than being full.
Most “nice guys” guys who struggle with putting their intentions forward are the former.
Just something to consider.
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2 hours ago, silene said:As far as I know it's the govt who create money via their central banks buying bonds from the banks in the money markets, eg if there's a recession to stimulate the economy. The banks can then lend it to us and businesses (i think this is also called quantitative easing). They can also reduce the money supply if things are getting overheated, by doing the reverse and selling bonds.
https://www.dummies.com/personal-finance/investing/where-does-money-come-from/
Contrary to usual opinion, businesses don't make money, they make profit (money comes from their customers).
Yes that’s all basically correct.
It’s because of this system that we will never pay down the US debt. That’s my point.
The monetary system needs to reformed to eliminate money created as interest-bearing debt.
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28 minutes ago, Bob Seeker said:are we talking Ubering, driving (or is that weird), walking?
Walking is best if it’s close. It’s the simplest.
Otherwise uber or driving works fine.
In fact, if you’re sober, driving girls home can be a good excuse to leave with them. But that’s only IF you know she already wants you to come with them. Otherwise they would much rather just get an Uber and avoid you.
33 minutes ago, Bob Seeker said:do you live like right next to the club?
You don’t have to. But obviously that can help. The simpler the logistics, the best chance you guys will actually leave together.
35 minutes ago, Bob Seeker said:do you take her friend(s) to other clubs too or just her?
You can get a girl to ditch her friends and come with you. It’s possible. BUT in my experience, that’s a minority of cases.
Girls who go out together like to stay together. They feel safer and it’s usually more fun for them.
So you are better off just keeping the group together. Don’t be that guy trying to break up the party, keep the party alive.
Then at the end, you and the girl you like can find some privacy if that’s what you want.
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18 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:wouldn't be very easy to go out everyday here as it's a smaller city
and also wouldn't be possible with my work.
And you certainly don’t have to.
I was just using my own experience as an example. Which was admittedly extreme.
If you want that kind of volume, you may have to move.
20 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:or what exactly do you mean by going out, does even a short visit to a bar count?
I would say being at a bar or club for at least an hour.
More often than not I’d say it was longer than that. Maybe closer to 2-3 hours.
25 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:sometimes it feels effortless and then when it doesn't i'm really hard on myself why it's not
How often are you going out solo vs with friends?
26 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:i can go between being the life of the party on some nights (maybe that's a bit an overstatement)
to not being able to relax and thus not having fun and barely being able to look people into the eyes on another night
i know it's normal for people to have bad and good days/nights but that seems a bit extreme
No, you’d be surprised how common it is.
How relaxed and social we are is extremely, extremely contextual. Your entire personality can flip on a dime.
I still find myself in situations like that.
Key is to find the circumstances that currently make you uncomfortable and see if you can still “find yourself” in them.
100% success in this is not needed.
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Occasionally that is necessary.
But if that’s your only motivation, that’s not going to get you so far.
You want to get to a point where socializing and going out a lot feels effortless.
For instance, in the prime of my pickup days, I was out 7 nights a week. And while it did require pushing my comfort zone at times, it mostly just became automatic.
I didn’t think “am I going to go out tonight?”
I thought “where am I going out tonight?”
One thought assumes the outcome. It was just obvious I would be going out.
See if you can get to that point.
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11 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:Can someone explain the national debt for us?
Being in debt for more than two trillion dollars is mind-blowing. The biggest country in the world should not be in debt.
What prevents the US from collapsing? Would the US ever pay its debt or would just stay like this?
No we will never pay down the US national debt. Not under the current monetary system.
The reason being is that banks actually lend money into existence. It doesn’t come from anywhere. Where would it come from?
And so there is always more debt than money in the system.
That’s the short version at least. I would do research on how money is created if you want to understand this.
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12 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:The first one happened almost a year ago today. It was Halloween night and I was wearing a scary costume.
When I hear someone say fuck head I think total belligerent, boundary disrespecting, non self aware, obnoxious asshole. But if instead you mean simply lacking social skills, the term loses all meaning due to the overwhelming and rapidly increasing amount of people who fit that description. That’s a shit load of fuck heads.
So you were booted for lacking social skills? Who’s in the wrong if that’s the case? If you say it’s you, I fundamentally disagree.
Completely agree
First sentence yes. Second sentence not really.
Im describing what happened exactly as it happened. I do feel victimized but I’m not trying to paint a special picture of it.
I was being myself as much as I possibly could have been given the circumstances. Besides, how is it even possible to be anyone other than myself? I mean who else could I have been, Belle Delphine? Apparently all it takes is one person to dislike the self you present and boom, you’re gone.
And yet you’ve only been booted from one joint? Please teach me your Jedi mind tricks.
Correct. In their mind they’ve justified demonizing me so they don’t have to challenge their tiny paradigm locked reality bubbles. At least that’s how I see it.
Why the hell would they be giving me flat out compliments if they were disgusted? Wouldn’t that just add fuel to the fire they’re trying to extinguish? “Dude, you are so weird. Get tf away from us! You do have a cute face though.” WTF Who does that? They clearly were not drunk. It’s not hard to tell.
Imagine a world where it is forbidden to speak of the literal building blocks of all human life. That is hilariously absurd.
It isn’t just that. I open with a wide variety of topics and more often than not it fails. Do I explicitly ask her what topics are and aren’t acceptable to talk about and bend the direction of the dialogue around that or should I have telepathic abilities so I can just automatically tell? I have nothing in common with most people.
LOL! Maybe when we all get neuralinked that will be possible.
It pisses me off that I have to learn to flawlessly execute my sets at the risk of being permanently labeled creepy if even the slightest error is made. Where is the open mindedness? Where is the goodness of the human spirit in this case? Incel culture is packed with delusion no doubt but they are right on some things. Most of the guys I see with girlfriends are tall and handsome, with a few exceptions of course. Connor Murphy the six foot four male model body builder gets tons of girls effortlessly even when he acts like a total nut case.
This is you, still defending your fuck headedness.
I’m not going to validate your victim narrative.
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16 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:Fellas. I literally didn’t do a goddamn thing last night when a got removed. Nothing whatsoever. I was just standing there watching the crowd and trying to psych myself up for action. They suspected I was going to act weird based on my previous visits so that’s why. Even then my only crime was talking about subjects that fall outside the Overton Window. @aurum If by complete fuck head you mean guy trying to push his comfort zones, sure. I was still holding back 90% of what I would have liked to do/say but I guess even that wasn’t enough. Who’s the shady one if I wasn’t issued a single warning even though the staff was fully aware they could and should have? The least they could have done is extending me the courtesy of a three strike policy, but no, i was judged so harshly that ill intent was assumed of me until it was too late.
Sorry, I’m sticking my with opinion on this one. Going to have to disagree with @Roy.
Look at the way you even worded your post. “Got thrown out of a bar for BEING MYSELF”.
No one has ever been thrown out of a bar for being themselves. The world is not that harsh of a place.
I’ve been out to a bar more times than I could ever count. I’ve done egregious things at many of them. I’ve been “myself” to the max.
And yet I’ve only been kicked out of one bar in my entire life. Which I deserved, because I was in fact being a fuck head.
And when I say fuck head, I’m being tongue in cheek. I really just mean someone acting without social grace.
I know you’re just trying to push your comfort zone and grow. That’s commendable. I don’t think you’re bad for what happened.
But good intentions doesn’t mean people are going to love what you’re doing.
Here’s what I think: you are hurt that the people at this bar didn’t like and accept you. And to justify why you’re still lovable, you constructed this narrative about how you were victimized.
Which is not to say the other actors in this story were saints either. Maybe they were being assholes or just drunk. Who knows.
But no where in your story do you admit that you might be at fault or share some of the responsibility. And that’s just not the reality if you got kicked out of two bars in a short time period.
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11 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:You are making assumptions based off a question I asked. There is no problem
Then why are you asking for help on an online forum?
Based on you asking that question, it sounds like you’re approaching girls like a starving dog.
You could have asked anything. You could have asked “hey Leo, how do I build a deep connection with this girl?” Or “hey Leo, how do I make friends with her friends?”. Or “hey Leo, how do I work on viewing women I’m picking up as human beings and not just sexual objects?”
But you didn’t ask any of those questions. You asked “can I fuck her in 5 minutes??”.
I’m just saying, that probably says something about where your head is at.
But my read could admittedly be off. Do you think you’re being a starving dog?
12 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:I’m glad, you’re welcome.
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14 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:What is the appropriate way of pulling a girl home during nightgame ?
Leo already said it pretty well. There is no one “appropriate way”, it’s always an in-the-moment judgment call. You can’t just blindly follow some rule.
16 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:Is there an hour during the night that is better for pulling ? By that I mean, can pulling early in the night be done or is not feasible ?
The hour or couple hours after the peak of the night, when people are starting to go home, is usually best.
You can theoretically bring a girl home early in the night. But I generally wouldn’t count on it.
Remember that just because you are ready to go home in 5 minutes of meeting her, does not mean she is.
Most girls are going out to have fun. They want to dance. They want to talk with their friends. They want to get drunk. Or she could even be getting paid to stay later into the night (atmosphere model), which is more common in the VIP sections of big night clubs.
Regardless, her agenda most likely does not involve leaving at 10pm with you. Unless you’ve structured it that way earlier.
25 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:Also, can I go for the pull minutes after meeting her ? How long is the right length of time ?
This is the problem.
Why do you need to go for a pull right away?
Slow your roll a bit.
in Dating, Sexuality, Relationships, Family
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Thank you. That certainly could be one way that people use the term neediness. People will use different terms differently, which is part of what can make explaining this so challenging.