The real reason the world is obsessed with Israel

[Karmadhi]

13 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

So you’re always the victim?

Bro I am neither Muslim nor Arab. I live in Europe and my family is not linked to Arabs in any way. I just feel like if the West left the Middle East alone, the world would be a better and safer place for everyone, including people like me living in the West.

My country is pro Israeli politically fyi.

[Israfil]

20 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem is that Islam feels inferior because it is. It is a toxic philosophy that humiliates and limits humans in favor of an imaginary god. It castrates human creativity, transforms it into fear and hypocrisy.

The only way Islamic civilization could flourish is by ceasing to be Islamic, but that is a humiliation they do not want to go through. They are not practical like the Chinese, who put their emperor to work as a gardener in the name of a Western philosophy, Marxism, and that break with the past freed them from the chains that held them back and they will soon be the first world power.

This is not true at all. For a long time, the Islamic world was a safe haven for both persecuted Jews and Christians. The modern theocratic Muslim states are a product of the interplay of the medieval Muslim states and the European colonial empires. For a very long time, the Muslim world was more enlightened and dare I say more progressive than Christian Europe. 

Here's a small article presenting this view: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/religionglobalsociety/2022/09/tolerance-versus-toleration-the-lost-civility-of-the-muslim-empires/#:~:text=From this perspective%2C Muslim Empires,the Islamic judges (qadis).

The idea of western societies being the most advanced and developed in the world stems heavily from warfare results. That's the whole "history is told by winners" trope. Europe, and later, the US just punched people harder than anyone else and therefore got the self-proclaimed moral high ground to state that they're the most morally and technically advanced societies in the world.

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, Israfil said:

the Muslim world was more enlightened and dare I say more progressive than Christian Europe. 

Wasn‘t it mostly only Iran/Persia and parts of the Ottoman emprie which kept the Greek/Persian/Mythrain/Indian/

Zoroasterian knowledge and cherished it while the catholic church went nuts for a while in Europe though? I doibt Saudi etc were ever more „enlightened“

[Breakingthewall]

47 minutes ago, Israfil said:

The idea of western societies being the most advanced and developed in the world stems heavily from warfare results.

I agree that in the old days Muslim civilization was more refined and advanced, but since the Renaissance there has been an enormous evolution in the West, and when the industrial revolution arrives, the West completely advances ahead of the others.

[PurpleTree]

45 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Wasn‘t it mostly only Iran/Persia and parts of the Ottoman emprie which kept the Greek/Persian/Mythrain/Indian/

Zoroasterian knowledge and cherished it while the catholic church went nuts for a while in Europe though? I doibt Saudi etc were ever more „enlightened“

Roman knowledge too, since most of those places were Roman empire

[Gennadiy1981]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Bro I am neither Muslim nor Arab. I live in Europe and my family is not linked to Arabs in any way. I just feel like if the West left the Middle East alone, the world would be a better and safer place for everyone, including people like me living in the West.

I agree with that and many years back, learning about the middle east in general, the west definitely fuels things, and fuels a lot. Not saying anything, but seems like the West (USA + Europe) kinda wants to see conflict there.

[Guest Tobia]

@Gennadiy1981

18 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

 but seems like the West (USA + Europe) kinda wants to see conflict there.

Of course, the US uses Israel to keep the middle east divided and therefore more easily control to flow of oil out the region.

The US doesn't give a shit about Israelis, the empire always acts in their purely selfish strategic interest.

They speak all the nice words, but it is all bs.  Just like with Ukraine, neocons couldn't care less about the human rights of ukranians, they were using them as pawns to harm a geopolitical rival.

Once you stop being a convenient pawn, they abandon you. As they are now doing with Ukraine,they will probably do with Israel one day

[Gennadiy1981]

So in that case Leo is right when he speaks of conspiracy theories. Say they are true or they are not true, what are you going to do about it on such a global level. At best it will distract you from actualizing yourself. So sit back and just watch more of Leo's videos.

Actually speaking of videos, I want to start petition for Leo to start producing more videos, we haven't had a new video in a long time. I spoke privately to few people and they also miss his videos. I wonder how I can start that. Any ideas?

[Nivsch]

@Gennadiy1981 start what? Leo wrote he needs a break of at least couple of months. Pressure is not good. Watch other videos/channels/books and mostly self work and investigate your emotions and thoughts, as it is better to let the things unfold organically.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Gennadiy1981]

Oh i didnt know that, where did you see that? Did something happened to Leo? Where was it stated, I was not aware of such?

[Nivsch]

10 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Oh i didnt know that, where did you see that? Did something happened to Leo? Where was it stated, I was not aware of such?

In the blog in july or august.

He has implied that he needs maybe even more than just couple of months.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[DawnC]

7 hours ago, lina said:

I think you're still disregarding the core cause of the conflict. The hatred of Jewish people amongst the Arab & Muslim world was and has been a result of Israel's atrocities, and how their entire region got destabilized since its creation. Which is terrible especially that a considerable number of Jewish people are not even Zionists. 

I think it's clear that we have different moral perspectives regarding the origins of this conflict. You perceive the act of Jews returning to the land where there where already people as highly immoral. I am more sympathetic to the Zionist movement and their desire to establish sovereignty in a land they feel a connection to, given the circumstances of that time. I don't disregard anything. I think It's completely fine that we hold this moral disagreement. On my part, the issue arises when you view the actions of the Jews as an 'ancient sin' committed by Israelis, and from that point onward, it seems that nothing else matters to you. It doesn't seem to matter what actions the Palestinians or Israelis take. The entire span of history, from that supposed ancient sin until today, appears to hold little weight in your assessment. Your focus seems solely on rectifying this perceived historical wrong, zero regard for how the course of history and the current situation demonstrate the dangers and impracticality of your approach.

But the discussion here wasn't about that at all. It was about the reasons why this conflict is widely discussed. Even if Israel is wrong about everything and is to blame for everything, it doesn't explain that. Of course the conflict had an effect on the hatred of Jewish people amongst the Arab & Muslim world, that is not relevant to the fact that this hatred was a contributing factor to the world's obsession with this conflict. Btw, antisemitic sentiments in Muslim societies are not solely because of 'Israel's atrocities' or because 'the region got destabilized.' It is present even in the Quran.

[Girzo]

13 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

secondly pland is quite notoriously famous anti-jewish

We are not that anti-Jewish considering they were the biggest minority before the WWII. In my city over 50% of population had been Jewish. Down to 0%  not only there but in the whole Poland. Our culture has remnants of not liking Jews, but it's like a normal neighbor on neighbor prejudice level, not some unexplained hatred.

Actually Poles do a lot to upkeep the memory of Jews, even though they are not there anymore and don't care about Poland too much. It's just that the communists didn't like Jews so a lot of material memory got destroyed. The remaining rest is celebrated.

Overall I wouldn't say Polish people are anti-Jew in any meaningful way.

There is even a very popular Polish sci-fi comedy movie, where time travelers kill Hitler and when they get back to the future, they are in Poland that never got destroyed by war, full of Jews and Poles coexisting happily, very cool movie.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Girzo

[PurpleTree]

I think muslims are so obsessed with israel/palestine

not because they generally hate jews or love palestinians but because it used to be a muslim country (after it was christian, roman etc)

and it hurts their honour that the country used to be muslim and now less and less 

[Israfil]

11 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I think muslims are so obsessed with israel/palestine

not because they generally hate jews or love palestinians but because it used to be a muslim country (after it was christian, roman etc)

and it hurts their honour that the country used to be muslim and now less and less 

It's a survival issue. Just taking into account the first year of the original occupation, over a million Palestinians were displaced and most fertile land was taken by Israel.

[ArcticGong]

 

[Lila9]

The annoying hypocrisy of Western progressives:

 

[Lila9]

90% or more of the non-Jewish anti-zionists are covered antisemitic. 

 

[Merkabah Star]

Glenn Greenwald has the Pro Palestine, Harvard students on his show. 

 

[Merkabah Star]

Bernice King, Martin Luther King Jr.’s daughter, responded to Amy Schumer's Tweet of MLK speaking about anti-semitism. King said that, while her father was against anti-semitism, he also most likely wouldn't have supported Israel's aggression against Gaza. Later, actor Asia Jackson posted screenshots of her Instagram DM's where Schumer accuses her of anti-semitism.