This is why silencing the mind completely brings Love / non duality

[Javfly33]

If you silence your mind enough / get out of it completely, what happens?

Well, what remains is the same that was before:

A body, objects, sounds, smell.

But the difference is that there is no mind projecting the belief that any of this things are 'separated', there is no mind mechanism that is cutting differences and saying 'this object is different that this other one, this body is you and this other thing is obviously not'.

When this mechanism stops, there is no need to 'convince yourself you are One', rather, it is revealed that when the mind is not alive, Love is brutally unavoidable, Non duality and Direct Unity is obviously unavoidable.

It is the mind that avoids it, it is the mind mechanism that creates differences, it is the mind mechanism that creates the hell. It is the mind mechanism that makes you think this is not already Heaven. 

What a macabre game, my god. 🤣

[Vibroverse]

Yeah, just being still, just being. 

 

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

If you silence your mind enough / get out of it completely, what happens?

Well, what remains is the same that was before:

A body, objects, sounds, smell.

But the difference is that there is no mind projecting the belief that any of this things are 'separated', there is no mind mechanism that is cutting differences and saying 'this object is different that this other one, this body is you and this other thing is obviously not'.

When this mechanism stops, there is no need to 'convince yourself you are One', rather, it is revealed that when the mind is not alive, Love is brutally unavoidable, Non duality and Direct Unity is obviously unavoidable.

It is the mind that avoids it, it is the mind mechanism that creates differences, it is the mind mechanism that creates the hell. It is the mind mechanism that makes you think this is not already Heaven. 

What a macabre game, my god. 🤣

Yes. Very good. That already conforms to realizing/being Ultimate Reality quite nicely. Allow me some musings...

And if the "one" having these insights/understandings is also seen as just an arising/movement/I-thought and I-feeling - "bundle/structure/Gestalt" happening/moving in that nondual boundless Reality, it can be realized that this Understander/separate-self having that insight/understanding/Awakening is and always was just an illusion.

And never existed as more than some illusion/ignorance-clouds moving in that boundless infinite impersonal Reality/Infinite Consciousness beyond which nothing can exist.

Doesn't really exist (beyond an illusion), has never really existed, and will never really exist (beyond some more illusion/ignorance).

More on that step:

Selling Water by the River  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Water by the River

[inFlow]

@Javfly33 Yeeeeep. Going out of meditation is amazing, first it's pure beauty, peace and then after a couple of minutes you can actually "see/feel" your mind putting labels on material things ruining this bliss moment and so Maya continues.

[Razard86]

Can we collectively start bringing some unique new threads? You know how many threads we got like this? Hell you know how many Youtube videos with titles like this? Come on Universal Consciousness is capable of showcasing more than this. Really seek to challenge yourself to experience something even deeper.

[vibv]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

If you silence your mind enough / get out of it completely, what happens?

Well, what remains is the same that was before:

A body, objects, sounds, smell.

But the difference is that there is no mind projecting the belief that any of this things are 'separated', there is no mind mechanism that is cutting differences and saying 'this object is different that this other one, this body is you and this other thing is obviously not'.

When this mechanism stops, there is no need to 'convince yourself you are One', rather, it is revealed that when the mind is not alive, Love is brutally unavoidable, Non duality and Direct Unity is obviously unavoidable.

It is the mind that avoids it, it is the mind mechanism that creates differences, it is the mind mechanism that creates the hell. It is the mind mechanism that makes you think this is not already Heaven. 

What a macabre game, my god. 🤣

It's the human mind that does that. It's still a beautiful instrument, but you have to realize that it's not what you are.

Per default you're identified with it, cause there's nothing else to compare it to. That's the reason spirituality becomes really important, to distance yourself from your human mind.

After that you're able to use the mind way more effectively. I like the term "jailbreak" here.

We've got a lot of progress to do here regarding that. Individually and collectively. The potential of the human mind is still mostly untapped.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Can we collectively start bringing some unique new threads? You know how many threads we got like this? Hell you know how many Youtube videos with titles like this? Come on Universal Consciousness is capable of showcasing more than this. Really seek to challenge yourself to experience something even deeper.

The thing is I'm not even close to the point of stabilizing this Oneness state of being, so I'm not at a point of going "deeper " my friend 

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Can we collectively start bringing some unique new threads? You know how many threads we got like this? Hell you know how many Youtube videos with titles like this? Come on Universal Consciousness is capable of showcasing more than this. Really seek to challenge yourself to experience something even deeper.

I know, right? Boring! Been there done that. Where's the solipsism? The infinite love? The omnipotence? The thrill? The profundity? The depth? The newfound insight? The metaphysics? I want DEEPER. Awakening™ is in another castle.

[Bazooka Jesus]

17 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I know, right? Boring! Been there done that. Where's the solipsism? The infinite love? The omnipotence? The thrill? The profundity? The depth? The newfound insight? The metaphysics? I want DEEPER. Awakening™ is in another castle.

Alien Insanity or gtfo.

[Breakingthewall]

On 20/10/2023 at 0:09 PM, Water by the River said:

Yes. Very good. That already conforms to realizing/being Ultimate Reality quite nicely. Allow me some musings...

And if the "one" having these insights/understandings is also seen as just an arising/movement/I-thought and I-feeling - "bundle/structure/Gestalt" happening/moving in that nondual boundless Reality, it can be realized that this Understander/separate-self having that insight/understanding/Awakening is and always was just an illusion.

And never existed as more than some illusion/ignorance-clouds moving in that boundless infinite impersonal Reality/Infinite Consciousness beyond which nothing can exist.

Doesn't really exist (beyond an illusion), has never really existed, and will never really exist (beyond some more illusion/ignorance).

More on that step:

Selling Water by the River  

Your post from May is very interesting (I don't understand how you can remember a post from May by the way, congratulations) but there is something that I don't completely understand.

I understand what you are saying about the total dissolution of the self that wants to understand. My experience is exactly that, the fall of the self into nothingness, but this is precisely where I see the problem: nothingness. nothingness is a limited realization. Truly nothing does not exist, it is impossible, since without limits nothing ceases to be nothing, it is everything.

If when we talk about nothing we are referring to the absence of structure, then yes, since the self is structure and center. The fall of the self is the dissolution of the illusion of a center, recipient of experience, reality is impersonal, it is a natural phenomenon, not someone.

Performing the action of dropping the self is extremely difficult, since it is the self that performs it. It is unthinkable because thinking is structure, now I am trying to think about it and I know it is impossible, but what remains evident is the impossibility of emptiness. The void is limited, because if it extends without limit, it contains everything.

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Your post from May is very interesting (I don't understand how you can remember a post from May by the way, congratulations) but there is something that I don't completely understand.

I understand what you are saying about the total dissolution of the self that wants to understand. My experience is exactly that, the fall of the self into nothingness, but this is precisely where I see the problem: nothingness. nothingness is a limited realization. Truly nothing does not exist, it is impossible, since without limits nothing ceases to be nothing, it is everything.

If when we talk about nothing we are referring to the absence of structure, then yes, since the self is structure and center. The fall of the self is the dissolution of the illusion of a center, recipient of experience, reality is impersonal, it is a natural phenomenon, not someone.

Performing the action of dropping the self is extremely difficult, since it is the self that performs it. It is unthinkable because thinking is structure, now I am trying to think about it and I know it is impossible, but what remains evident is the impossibility of emptiness. The void is limited, because if it extends without limit, it contains everything.

you've never been a thinker, awareness has first dibs on any experience and can decide to shelve mind any time it pleases, this is known as silence

silencing the mind completely brings non duality since the you is now just part of the crowd that you always are

Edited October 23, 2023 by gettoefl

[Water by the River]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

My experience is exactly that, the fall of the self into nothingness, but this is precisely where I see the problem: nothingness. nothingness is a limited realization. Truly nothing does not exist, it is impossible, since without limits nothing ceases to be nothing, it is everything.

Yes. At the Absolute, all dualities/pointers/words fail. Realizing by BEING the Infinite/Nothingness/Totality and dropping the clouds/ignorance of false separate-self totally.

So one can approach IT from both "sides": Nothing-Ness/Infinite or Infinity/Everything. IT is both Nothing(-ness) and everything/Infinity. See below (from the same link), marked in green.

And the most important parts are:

1) "In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support."

That part is the problem in all Psychedelic Awakenings I have seen so far (projecting separate-something on IT, creating "facets", or "I" am God). Not to even talk about all the endearing conceptual (non-awakening) solipsistic speculations and projections.

and

2) "Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo."

 

and here the green markings in the post:

On 21.5.2023 at 1:40 PM, Water by the River said:

Yes, understand & agree.

" the absence of limitation is absolute life, absolute freedom, absolute love, because it includes everything . whoever realizes the absolute is the only one that exists, but his infinity excludes any solitude. there is no other, but as in a game of mirrors, there are infinite perspectives. you cannot understand it in a linear or superficial way".  That is  beautiful. And the "one" who realizes the Absolute is gone... replaced by the Infinite Totality that was always already the case. The previous separate self is seen through/transcended/emptied out/dead. A functional character remaining, but the separate self gone. Because how could IT be the Infinite Totality when "anything" separate or individual/individuality still arise&moves in it.... That is why some say no one realizes the Absolute, and that there can not be an enlightened person.

I use Nothingness in the definition of  Andrew Halaw, to contrast it with Nothing. Nothing has a opposite: Something. Nothingness is neither existence nor non-existence. Madhyamaka-style. Neither existing nor non-existing, nor both, nor neither. Infinite.

Infinite Consciousness, or the One without a second. But that already says too much "positive" about "It".

 

Andrew Halaw in "God is Nothingness":

"This book is about Nothingness, the great Void of the holy sages, not to be confused with the nothing of the ordinary person.

Silence. A blank page or space in a book. A shout. Slapping the table or thumping the floor. These are all expressions of the ineffable truth that is theuniversal nature of reality. Since there is no way to directly capture the highest truth with language, all we can do is point to it.

And “Nothingness” is the best verbal pointer that I have found."

In the beginning, there was only Nothing.
Now there is only Nothing.
In the end, there will be only Nothing.

There always was, is,
and only ever will be
Nothing.

God is Nothingness
Christ is Nothingness
Buddha is Nothingness
The Tao is Nothingness
Brahman is Nothingness
The Absolute is Nothingness

Nothingness is neither something nor the common nothing;
it is the Great Nothing, the eternal, magnificent, all-encompassing
Nothingness that transcends being,
yet is the ground from which existence itself arises.

In truth, there is only Nothingness,
for nothing else ever was.

Beings suffer because they do
not understand Nothing.
Intoxicated by their senses and minds,
they chase mirages,
construct temples,
conduct empty rituals,
pursue wealth and status,
believing that there is something
—meaning, purpose, salvation—
to attain.

Fools are slaves to their senses and thoughts,
caught in the snare of form and desire,
unaware that all things
arise from Nothingness,
abide as Nothingness,
and return to Nothingness.

For nothing has ever happened.

Existence and appearance are flashes of Nothingness
superimposed upon Nothingness.

There are no beings, no worlds,
no minds, no consciousness,
no souls, no events, no time,
no space, no Buddha, no Christ,
no Self, no God.

There is only the not-‘that’ That—
the Great, Magnificent Void,
the womb of all existence.

NOTHINGNESS.

Bound by neither space nor time,
Nothingness is dimension-less,
time-less, and form-less.

The Void is unborn, unoriginated, unconditioned, and deathless,
neither coming nor going, ‘creating’ nor destroying, rewarding nor punishing.
It has never set anything in motion nor caused anything to happen.

Ultimately, there is only Nothing,
which is the final and only truth.

Nothingness cannot be seen with eyes,
nor heard with ears,
tasted with the tongue,
smelt with the nose,
felt by the body,
or known by the mind.

Do not look for it with your senses or mind,
for the Void is beyond color, sound,
smell, taste, touch, form, and
thought.

Transcend them and realize that you are truly
Nothing, that in reality
there is only Nothing.

Then you are free to dance and play
on the waves of Nothingness.

"

and

"

Nothingness is not sheer blankness, yet neither is it being-ness the way that we ordinarily understand existence; it is the source and true nature of all beings. This is the “vast emptiness, nothing holy” of Bodhidharma, the legendary founder of Ch’an, Sǒn, and Zen Buddhism.

Consciousness is neither present nor absent in Nothingness, for Nothingness is actually the root of consciousness. In truth, there is no such thing as consciousness; there is only Nothingness.

Consciousness is instantiated Nothingness, as is all of existence.

Frightened dullards, clinging to notions of existence, call Nothingness “nihilism,” unaware that Nothing is the exact opposite of deathly sterility; Non-being is the great womb from which everything arises, abides, and eventually returns. From a Buddhist perspective, “Emptiness is not a negative idea, nor does it mean mere privation, but as it is not in the realm of names and forms, it is called emptiness, or nothingness, or the Void” (Suzuki 60).

Sunyata, as Nothingness can be called in Buddhism, or Tao in Taoism, sustains everything, including consciousness. It is the vast, empty void of Non-existence that the Buddha calls Nirvana, meaning “extinction” of all ‘being.’ It is what Nisargadatta Maharaj points to when he speaks of ‘Universal Consciousness’ or what Huang Po calls ‘Mind.’

Nothingness is prior to consciousness, as it is is with all phenomena. This is why Huang Po says, “Mind in itself is not mind” (Blofeld 34), meaning that the mind is truly understood only when its own emptiness is realized. For mind is Nothingness occurring as consciousness. When this is properly realized, mind become Mind with a capital “M,” not in the sense that some latent quality has been discovered that it is somehow beyond all conditioning, like some eternal super Consciousness or Witness at the base of our mind; but in the sense that when we realize our own universality as Nothingness, we awaken to our own unlimited nature. This is what sages mean when they talk about “primordial consciousness”; it is the realization that our minds transcend beingness alone, by extending into the core nor Non-being, into Nothingness itself. The mind, in effect, is simultaneously limitless (transcendent) and viscerally present (immanent). Hence, Nisargadatta calls it “Universal Consciousness” to express the insight into the universal Nothingness of our minds.

Nothingness creates, supports, animates, and eventually recalls everything, yet is not bound to any single thing. It is the stars, but not limited to them. It is the earth and all of its inhabitants, but is not confined to them.

Nothingness is the true nature of all existence. The Buddha, the Awakened One, is also called Tathata, meaning, “One who has arrived at suchness,”
suchness being another term for the ineffable, mysterious reality of Nonbeing, sunyata, or Nothingness.

We have risen from Nothingness, and to Nothingness we shall return. Therefore, ultimately there is no movement or nothing that ever happens, for everything is in fact Nothingness. “That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete” (37). And yet the world continues to change and transform; the seasons come and go; people are born, grow old and die.

Nothing changes and yet everything happens.

Divinity expresses itself as an acorn, a mustard seed, a lump of coal. Humans, including their toils and vices, are all manifestations of the wondrous Nothingness. “Nothing[ness] is the inexhaustible, suprasensible power underlying all finite beings,” “the emptiness from which all beings are forged” (Chen 90, 92).

Nothingness sings as birds, sighs as the wind, breathes as humans, and knows as mind. Once this is realized, there is nothing to worry about, for everything is an expression of Nothing. As the seminal Buddhist scripture, the Heart Sutra, says, “Form is Emptiness; Emptiness is Form.”

Your truest nature is Nothingness. Mind and consciousness are in fact Nothingness. This is why Ch’an Master Linji called the Enlightened being a “person of no rank,” someone who can come and go freely. “No rank” means no fixed limitation, free and vast as the sky, bound by neither ‘being’ nor even Non-being.

This is the infinite Nothingness of the sages.

"

and, maybe most important, Appendex I: Nothingness (Infinite Consciousness) has the potential for sentience/awareness, to have awareness arise if an "object"-arising happens. Or perceptions perceiving themselves, with our without separate-self arisings. So it is not Nothing, like in nothing at all. But infinite potential + potential for sentience of "that". See also Benthinos Water-Pistol emerging/manifested in an infinite empty vastness.

"

Appendix I
Some readers may be wondering why I say that awareness is not the Absolute, despite the fact that so many ancient scriptures and eminent teachers say that they are identical. For instance, Nisargadatta taught that consciousness is rooted in (and therefore limited to) the physical human form, while awareness transcended the individual body and was actually the Absolute—that everything is Universal Consciousness.

This is more of an instructive approach than a philosophical commitment. If pressed as to whether the Absolute is awareness or not, I would say, like Huang Po did, that, “Mind is not mind, yet neither is it no-mind.”

In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support.

In the end, to paraphrase Socrates, all that I know is Nothing.

This Consciousness has shed all of the characteristics that people normally identify with awareness, such as perspective, spatial and temporal contexts, objects, ownership, etc. Yet, if there were no awareness, then it would be impossible to differentiate the numinous Nothingness from how people conventionally conceive of blankness or being comatose.

Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo.

Names at that point, after the Absolute has been realized, are insignificant.

"

Since this is the first thread I started myself, I allow myself the liberty to blow it up with a waaaay to long ramling like the one above. Hope nobody minds... 

Selling Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the RiverRiver6RiverRiver6RiverRiver6RiverR

That nothingness you speak of is, obviously, something, or better, everything. nothing in the sense of absence of structures. I think that in the end the matter is simple (although not easy): all structures must fall. Doing this is extremely difficult, but not a miracle reserved for mystical saints, anyone who understands what the structures are can do it. It looks scary, but that's completely stupid. It's like a guy on top of a skyscraper looking out the window who can't stop holding on to a handhold. He can let it go, he will stay the same, in the same place. It is a practical exercise, an action that is carried out. 

For our specific case, rather than letting go of a handle, we have to let go of the self, and the self is really the perception that we are the center, the recipient of the experience. It is difficult to do this because really throughout our lives every movement, perception, sensation, leads to this feeling of center. The way to do it is the will to open, which is in some way the opposite of the will to hoard experience. generosity vs greed. That is why any greed, like the need to interpret, closes, brings back the self, which is like a steel door planted in the middle of experience, a black hole that absorbs all perception.

From my experience I can say that it is getting easier (although difficult) since the freedom that is given is total, so the psyche gets used. It becomes obvious that it is reality, what the absence of limits causes: the source of existence, life flowing from the abyss of the infinite.

What it is about is making a shift from the perspective of form to the unlimited perspective, which is the truly real one, and more that a perspective is to become that. It is extremely difficult to keep that open for more than 1 or 2 minutes, since at the same moment that the mind tries to interpret, the door closes. but that is the reality now, no other. the infinite flowing without limit. The beauty of this is total, the structured human perspective is still attractive, but only if the infinite is constantly transparent, and for this we must lighten the mind, remove all the density. 

Regarding the typical : you are God creating reality, well...I would say that that is a misunderstanding, it's the openess that happens with psychedelics without the act of let go the self, so the self perceives itself as God.  but I can't say for sure. What I see (speculating a bit) is that reality is impersonal, it is a like a flow, and this flow given the absence of limits manifests as life and intelligence without limit, and this gives rise to cycles, to structures that are created and dissolved cyclically, with no one behind creating them. . Reality organizes itself in the cosmic cycle, which is like a dance of beauty that always points towards more complexity because it really wants to be, it rejoices in its dance. You can call this god, but it is so impersonal that the word god does not fit. It's not a god doing things, it's the nature of reality, a natural phenomenon. although as I already said my opening times are brief. but a second is a long time if the aperture is wide 

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

you've never been a thinker, awareness has first dibs on any experience and can decide to shelve mind any time it pleases, this is known as silence

silencing the mind completely brings non duality since the you is now just part of the crowd that you always are

There are many layers, it's not just silence, it's openess. You could be in silence and closed and with some frequency of thought and open. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Breakingthewall