New War In Israel / Gaza

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Seems pretty clear what’s being said - many pro Israelis will struggle to process it because the Israeli state has drip fed propaganda that’s slowly seeped in like microplastics from water. 

Or they privately agree but publicly deny this sentiment.

Or maybe it’s just late where you are.

 

   Oh you got to be careful Zazen, this might actually be reported as a threat to doxxing. Or the joke is lost to me and I misinterpreted.😂

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Then there is no real opression here.

Doesnt it seems problematic to you that the explanation to oct 7th is that Israel exists (and not really the settlements as we now see)?

 

   Also, even if current Israeli in Israel, all the population plus the leaders just gave up, packed their bags and left to another country or land, the USA's few politicians in the past, and a few generals made it very clear that an Israel state will still be their even if they have to make one their own, meaning there's a vested interest by the Americans for the state of Israel to be there. I'm beginning to think there's simply no good solution out of this conflict at all as long as America's hegemony and interests are there in that region, and some of Russia's interests are also there in that region. This is a long proxy war from those two other countries.

   On top of all of that, even if HAMMAs is destroyed by IDF, HAMMAs is a symptom of a deeper problem that'll just generate another terrorist group as long as living conditions for the West Bank and Gaza are sub optimal for Palestinians. It's so bleak for this conflict and the world.

Edited January 20 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Then there is no real opression here.

Of course there is.

That's like saying the British didn't oppress the Native Americans.

[Nivsch]

@Nabd Almost every state ever started from a dynamic of new people that have settled there. This is by definition.

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Yes because the land was colonized.

This doesn't mean the land was empty.

Have you ever read books on the region or do you just parrot The stories that allow you to sleep at night?

What do you mean by historical connection? Religion wise yes, its holy land and you don't need to colonize and massacre a population to live there. Jews lived there already before European Jews came.

Again, don't start with this homeland bullshit. Levantines are natives, they descendend from Canaanites and Arameans. Just like Oriental Jews who are also Canaanites.

Religion isn't a race.

Judaism is older than Islam.

There was a Jewish state on this land for a very long time, for a thousands of years, this is why it's a homeland for the Jewish religion which is an ethical group too.

Muslims homeland is Saudia.

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course there is.

That's like saying the British didn't oppress the Native Americans.

Roughly every country in the world has been created from some version of this.

[Raze]

 

[Lila9]

42 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Stop being a devil.

They are from US, Poland, Germany, Austria, France, Russia etc.

Yes they were but this doesn't give them the right to take other peoples land.

And don't start with this bullshit of homeland.

European Jews are European. Oriental Jews are oriental.

Your grandfather was persecuted by Germans. Not by Middle easterners.

If you can't see this devilry and genuinely feel the paradoxical situation of Israel and Palestine because people born there are in a paradox, then you are just too blind and you extremely biased, just sheep behavior.

You live in Syria dude, you are highly biased against Israel from birth, the Arab world is known for its sheep mentality. I don't know how brainwashing they did with you there but it seems serious. 

 

[Nivsch]

@Nabd Not at all.

YOU guys say now that oct 7th is a self- justified action Israel cannot do nothing to prevent but to deffend itself physically. Is that sounds fair in your opinion towards the Israelis?

What I say is that an existance of a state you don't like is NOT a justification to terror because this is too barbaric childish justification to use because Israel won't go anywhere.

The truth is that the Palestinians are completely free and sorverign in their area and they have to take responsibility to take the offers for a state they have got countless times and refused.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

   This is just counter productive and counter intuitive for Israel and IDF to do this. Easily can see how this will just keep terrorism growing in that region. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Roughly every country in the world has been created from some version of this.

Yes, but now we live in the 21st century, where such things are no longer acceptable. Because we're more morally developed. That's the cost of development: you can't act like a genocidal barbarian.

100 years ago you could kick a dog, no problem. Today it is considered a crime in the developed world.

Edited January 21 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is you shying away from admitting directly that you know deep inside that Israel is a colonial state which is made by displacing natives and taking their homes.

War is human thing yes, but your logic is very backward and barbaric and comes from ancient times of barbaric warfare. Similar to what Europeans did with natives elsewhere.

This is fine. But notice that this means you admit that terrorism is the basis of Israel, which justify Hamas and any other terrorist activity because the obly language people like you understand is violence and killings.

No. Actually it shows me you don't want to face what I said.

[Lila9]

4 minutes ago, Nabd said:

You are a troll which can't be reasoned with.

Jews are not a race. Oriental Jews lived in there homeland before European Jews came.

Levantines are descendants of Canaanites and Arameans. Just like Oriental Jews, which makes them Levantine. Which means Levantines are living in their homeland. European Jews homeland is Europe.

Being a Muslim is irrelevant. Some Palestinians today were Jews before.

This conflict is between a Jewish and a Muslim state, it doesn't matter what cannaties are and who they were, all humans on earth share the same African ansectores.

[zazen]

13 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

What I say is that an existance of a state you don't like is NOT a justification to terror because this is too barbaric childish justification to use.

The truth is that the Palestinians are completely free and sorverign in their area and they have to take responsibility to take the offers for a state they have got countless times.

Criticising a state doesn’t mean you want it to be erased. It’s being honest about how it came to be and how it currently is - Israel has to right its wrongs and stop committing more wrongs in the present.

If Palestinians are completely free and sovereign why are they offered a state? Because they aren’t completely free or sovereign. The ‘number’ of offers is always talked about but never the nature of these offers - because they offer less than a state meeting the international standards for what a state is ie sovereign - words from Israel’s supposed best man for peace that is Rabin.  

Edited January 21 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura Ok but now this isn't hapenning. To establish a settlement 5 km near your city is still not to kick you out not even close. It is not very fair, but it is light years away (in my opinion) from an opression you must kill children and women to deal with. This is absurd even to think about it. They were offered to end the settlements expansion near their cities ones and for all - 100 times. And refused.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Nabd , @zazen , @Lila9 and @Nivsch, please take a slow deep breath, this exchange is roasting this thread like an oven.

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is your logic of how states are created. I just used it against you.

You and Hamas are two sides of the same coin. Enjoy the terorrism this breeds and may the strongest win!

Not even close to "two sides".

Only Palestinians use lethal violence deliberatly against citizens (and 0.01% of the settlers). Only Palestinians refused to improve their situation. Only Palestinians have never had a state on their own. Its very interesting why they couldnt establish a state during the last centuries? They had far beyond the required time. Maybe they don't really want to? Maybe they want to stay the victims? What if this is their collective psychological tendency to begin with?

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Nabd said:

I am anti Assad, which means I am anti Axis of resistance. Which means I am anti Hamas because these guys genocided Syrians.

I also happen to be an atheist. So all this religius bullshit that Jews and Muslims are bought into doesn't affect me.

Israel must stay. The Israeli left are allies and should be counted on. I don't have anything against Israelis.

But its important to get things right. Israel was created in a certain way and only a true patriot is the one who is capable of criticizing his own country.

I am also not interested in this Hamas Israeli war because its bullshit. Iran and Israeli right wing cooperate and help each other.

I can understand you and even agree, until your claim that Hamas was created by Israel.

1 minute ago, Nabd said:

No.

First resistance was secular against Israeli colonization.

Jesus christ go read some history! Go see how leftists were fighting against Israel.

Islamic fundamentalism wasn't the first response against Israeli colonization. Its actually new and funded by Israel, a thing I keep saying yet you never acknowledge weirdly enough.

This is a war between colonizers and natives.

It doesn't matter, if it was secular or not. The base of Israel is Jewish, even if the majority are not religious. It is based on Jewish values and tradition.

America is a secular country which is based on Christianity, Christian values and tradition, not Judaism, not Islam or Buddhism.

Islamic fundamentalism was created in other countries like Egypt and before there was an Israeli state, read history, they called the Muslim Brotherhood.

And Hamas was inspired by them, Ahmad Yasin was a Muslim Brotherhood member who founded Hamas with the purpose to be a Muslim Brotherhood brunch in Israel.

[Nivsch]

@Nabd Sounds you are reacting now emotionally. Don't know how to answer to that. Nothing is personal and there is no competition here. I already answered about the Jews coming thing. Don't know what to add more on top of that.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

28 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is hilarious.

You keep mentioning the Jewish homeland and all this bullshit.

When I give you a counter claim that Palestinians are descendants of natives (Canaanites). A claim which you can't refute because its DNA, so you say oh it doesn't matter! We are all Africans!

If this isnt devilry then I don't know what is.

Palestinians are a diverse ethic group, there is no such a thing as Palestine ethnicity. Per their surname it's clear that they came from various countries among the middle east and various tribes.

Just because they have some percentage of Cannaties like the Jews, doesn't mean that Israel should be a Muslim state.

 

Edited January 21 by Lila9