New War In Israel / Gaza

[Vrubel]

@kenway It's not a genocide but it is something Hamas begged for on 7/10.

Copy-Paste* Consider that the alternative of Hamas staying in power in Gaza is worse than having this war. As destructive as this war is it will give the Palestinians a chance to obtain a healthy government that does not dehumanize them but looks after their basic needs and interests.   

Edited December 31, 2023 by Vrubel

[kenway]

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

1. This Application concerns acts threatened, adopted, condoned, taken and being taken by the Government and military of the State of Israel against the Palestinian people, a distinct national, racial and ethnical group, in the wake of the attacks in Israel on 7 October 2023. South Africa unequivocally condemns all violations of international law by all parties, including the direct targeting of Israeli civilians and other nationals and hostage-taking by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups. No armed attack on a State’s territory no matter how serious — even an attack involving atrocity crimes — can, however, provide any possible justification for, or defence to, breaches of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (‘Genocide Convention’ or ‘Convention’),1 whether as a matter of law or morality. The acts and omissions by Israel complained of by South Africa are genocidal in character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part of the Palestinian national, racial and ethnical group, that being the part of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip (‘Palestinians in Gaza’). The acts in question include killing Palestinians in Gaza, causing them serious bodily and mental harm, and inflicting on them conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. The acts are all attributable to Israel, which has failed to prevent genocide and is committing genocide in manifest violation of the Genocide Convention, and which has also violated and is continuing to violate its other fundamental obligations under the Genocide Convention, including by failing to prevent or punish the direct and public incitement to genocide by senior Israeli officials and others.

@Vrubel

@Nivsch

[zazen]

@Danioover9000 Good shares 👍🏻

13 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen That's why the offers said "with area exchanges" to provide them still the area that is as big as 67' lines just different (then no need to evacuate the settlements) so Gideon Levi doesn't prove anything here.

By the way he is roughly the most radical journalist in Israel. Not sure if his statements are reliable enough. Has to be taken with a grain of salt.

From what I’ve seen the main points the proposals fail on is that they offer less than a state with full sovereignty ie demilitarised, not a fair right of return, remains of some security points within a Palestinian state, limited access to resources like water and now probably Gas off the coast of Gaza. A two state solution seems out of question now unless strong armed by the international community and the Palestinian side unwilling to concede to anything if there was one - especially after the world protests their cause which to them confirms the validity of their cause.

Also from what Israels done and is currently doing only gives them more of a level of entitlement in any negotiation. A child born in Gaza in 2006 has lived through 4 conflicts in the first 16 years of their life. They clearly feel wronged by the past and in the present which is why they don’t feel they should be the ones conceding.

Israeli societies become more insular and moved to the right that any centrist or leftist take seems radical including Gideon Levy. Israel is moving in a dangerous direction that people feel comfortable enough to speak how they do even on mainstream media without much backlash. Any critique gets labelled anti semitic or a puppet of Hamas/Iran - Israel calls on Guterres from UN to resign for saying October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum for example.

No context is allowed except for the context of Israel existing as it does and doing as it pleases because of the Jewish peoples suffering. Holocaust denial is atrocious, but so is using the memory of the Holocaust and past suffering to justify present day suffering of others.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen Eliyahu yosian 🤣 he is iranian in his origin and known for his bizzare suggestions.

You only link to well known clowns 🛸

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@zazen Why they moved to the right? Because of the suicide bombing.

Before that, half of the Israelis were highly into the negotiations and peace.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   Very informative video, directly and indirectly shows problems with this thread in terms of developmental factors:

 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

directly and indirectly shows problems with this thread in terms of developmental factors

This thread is its own war zone. 

[Karmadhi]

14 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Yes but the Arab started the war because they didn't accept those borders. What proves to us - they are not satisfied even with 48' borders!

The issue is that Israeli current neo nazi government does not want it. That is the real issue

[Danioover9000]

@zazen  Thanks, here are a few more:

   and

   While I'm not surprised he's getting smeared campaign and getting slandered, it's still a sad thing to see him getting censorship like this, getting the John Mearsheimer treatment.

[Danioover9000]

   Good explanation by Thomas Sowell on the history:

 

[kenway]

 

Genius propaganda. But who paid for it?

[Raze]

12 minutes ago, kenway said:

Genius propaganda. But who paid for it?

israel funds a massive influence operation in the U.S. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTksWA1I2UI

 

[zazen]

On 30/12/2023 at 7:19 PM, Nivsch said:

Yes. The Palestinians are the main responsible to their problem and they are the only ones who can release themselves from their situation.

 

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen Why they moved to the right? Because of the suicide bombing.

Before that, half of the Israelis were highly into the negotiations and peace.

So Israelis can blame external factors for moving right or becoming more extreme, but Palestinians can’t? For them it’s an internal issue as you’ve said - a virus, disorder or self tyranny. 
 

Some polls:

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/51872

Edited January 1 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

   Cringe debate between Destiny and Cenk on Israel and Palestine conflict:

   Cenk here in the long term, morally is on the right, but in argumentation he's inaccurate, plus he's arguing at Destiny who has virtue signaled being pro Israel along with that moderator, he'll never have a good rhetorical win or good optics, especially anyone or most people, even with very reasonable takes and critiques of Israel, if an arguer is seen as too pro Palestinian and especially if it sounds like such a person has HAMAs sympathy, slander and defamation and censorships follow. So Cenk is actually on the unpopular side of this issue, and Destiny, like a motte and Bailey fallacy and position, Destiny is on the high ground with the popular side.

   I fucking hate popularity contests like these. Just because it's trending or popular doesn't mean it's TRUTH or it's right morally. Just like in Iraq war, Saddam Hussain had nothing to do with 9/11, yet Bush spun it as him being responsible for that, and everyone in America, the majority, went with it, even if there's devastation and carnage for the Iraq people that followed a bad military coup of Saddam's regime, and a bad martial law enforcement of the USA.

Edited January 1 by Danioover9000

[Lila9]

Just now, Lila9 said:

Interview of an Israeli woman who was in captivity by Hamas in Gaza:

 

[Nivsch]

Without denying this war problems,

Gazan children have already been killed psychologically and spiritually long before this war started.

Where was the world then?

Edited January 1 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   Interesting takes from one of the hostages:

   My first impressions, some withholding here, but mostly truthful.

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 Yes, Israel so care "only about the war" that agreed to release 1000+ terrorists for only ONE soldier called Gilad Shalit.

Absurd 🙂

Edited January 1 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

When you use tactics like this you lose the right to cry about "civilian" casualties.
 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

When you use tactics like this you lose the right to cry about "civilian" casualties.
 

 

   I don't like your accusation tone here, I think nobody here is using g tactics like what HAMAs is doing. In stark contrast the Israeli military have the latest technology in weaponry, and advance scanning systems such that they KNOW EXACTLY WHO THEY'RE TARGETING, so I don't know why this is a flex in your view here?