New War In Israel / Gaza

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

Yup

Have you even tried shrooms?

[PurpleTree]

21 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Have you even tried shrooms?

Well it doesn’t matter anyway

 

[Vrubel]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Vrubel Dude they were driven from their homes and put into a big prison controlled by Israel before Hamas even came to power. All the areas around Gaza are not even Israeli to begin with. Its stolen land. Also Israel blocked them having airports etc. 

 

If Hamas wasn't in power they would still have their airport and have elaborate economic ties with Israel. Isn't it obvious why a terror group cannot be allowed to have an airport? 

Don't "dude" me. My view is nuanced. The Gaza strip wasn't exactly a concentration camp or a Warsaw Ghetto.

The whole approach of the Palestinians to achieve their political goals is absolutely retarded. I have no other word for it.
Their evil genius is supposedly that they provoke Israel into an overreaction. That will lead to the discrediting of Israel. What they don't understand is that people are turned off by stage red rabble that cheers when brutalized naked women are paraded on the streets in Pick ups. The scale of their barbarity gave Israel a massive timespan to conduct this war and obviously, while the hostages are still being held, Israel will continue to rage on to pressure Hamas to release them as they did with the first batch recently. 

The Palestinians have enormous Political capital as an "oppressed people" in a post-colonial world that is very sensitive to these kinds of issues. They even have a unique UN status that Tibetans, Uighurs or Rohingyas can only dream of. Literally all they have to do is not commit, support or celebrate unspeakable deeds of barbarity and the world is theirs.
What did MLK, Nelson Mandela and Gandhi have in common? They all carried themselves with dignity, wisdom and non-violence. These are the three ingredients. If you can't win military victories you must win moral victories but they cannot do even that.  
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Vrubel

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Sure but dont you think that is inherently racist since whites tend to be better educated due to better upbringings?

There are also respectable educated Palestinians. It's not racist to have a bias for more developed educated people. If you're deeply stage red you'll think in doggish ways and have a doggish life and the consequences for any depraved actions will be doggish as well. There is a reason punishments are ridiculously harsh in stage-red societies. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Vrubel

[Vrubel]

50 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Im not an expert in Russia but I know many that lived there and they were not that poor. Like people in cities where they lived. Sure its not western europe but the world has way way poorer. The country itself is classified as a upper middle economy.

Yes, Moscow is basically a first-world city. The inequality and corruption in Russia is insanely stark.

[bariumly]

 

[Nivsch]

46 minutes ago, bariumly said:

 

😂😂😂 at least pretend somehow and say that "palestinians undergo genocide" or something more devious, but don't be too transparent and shoot yourself in the foot. For your favor I am saying.

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Like in europe/germany etc?

 

Poor europe.

Soon Israel will be the safer place to live.

Let alone London who seems last month like a formless UN ghost city with no character nor color nor self respect.

This is not liberalism. This is radical and suicidal stage green. When they become yellow in the future, I believe that every stage should get permission to express itself in the streets only according to its development and mainly to how healthy it is in the spectrum within his color.

Very frustrating the situation today.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Nivsch

[Happy Lizard]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

When they become yellow in the future, every stage will get permission to express itself in the streets only according to its development and mainly to how healthy it is in the spectrum within his color.

A medieval siege would be unthinkable/shameful at a stage yellow/integral thinking world in my view.

 

[Philipp]

A question to all, which is not about moralizing or taking sides, just about predicting. 

What do you think will be the future of the Palestine/Israel conflict?

1)    Israel control over entirety of Palestine and most Palestinians end up leaving to other countries. 

2)    Israel control over entirety of Palestine, and Palestinians stop resisting and continue to live there under very poor conditions.

3)    Israel control over entirety of Palestine, and Palestinians stop resisting and continue to live there under good conditions

4)    Israel control over entirety of Palestine, but Palestinians keep violantly resisting and war continues for the next 20+ years.

5)    2 autonomous, independant, peacefull states.

6)    2 autonomous, peacefull states, but Palestine is not allowed to have a military. 

7)    2 autonomous, independant, peacefull states, but with completly different borders.

8)    unification of Israel and Palestine, under a secular constitution.

9)    Israel anexation of Palestine, but Palestinians gain full citizenship. 

10)  Israel anexation of Palestine, and most Palestinians are forced to leave. 

11)   Israel dissolution and Israelis gain full citizenship in Palestine. 

12)   Israel dissolution and Israelis have to flee. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Philipp

[Vrubel]

@Philipp Nobody is going to force anyone out. The current geopolitical and diplomatic reality does not allow for that. What's needed is a 2 state solution + some creative out-of-the-box thinking to address the most contentious points. But given the current situation, I don't think there will be a solution any time soon. 

[Vrubel]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Poor europe.

Soon Israel will be the safer place to live.

Let alone London who seems last month like a formless UN ghost city with no character nor color nor self respect.

This is not liberalism. This is radical and suicidal stage green. When they become yellow in the future, I believe that every stage should get permission to express itself in the streets only according to its development and mainly to how healthy it is in the spectrum within his color.

Very frustrating the situation today.

Sweden took in 100.000's of Iraqis and Somalis as a gesture of pure goodness and compassion. Now they have regular riots, a massive uptick in crime and are in the global top 5 of countries with the most rape. How could you do such a thing to your beautiful peaceful country? I am all in for immigration and multicultural society on the condition that the immigrants share the same values. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Vrubel

[Twentyfirst]

@PurpleTree Been doing shrooms since you were in diapers. Just on this forum for shits and giggles.

One day you will not even need shrooms anymore!

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Sweden took in 100.000's of Iraqis and Somalis as a gesture of pure goodness, and compassion. Now they have regular riots, a massive uptick in crime and are in the top 5 of countries with the most rape. How could you do such a thing to your beautiful peaceful country? I am all in for immigration and multicultural society on the condition that the immigrants share the same values. 

Didn't white European Jews sneakily force themselves into the Middle East surrounded by brown Arab Muslims? How is that immigration based on same values? 

[Vrubel]

It's good to remember that the first decades of Israel were hallmarked by pro-peace leftwing idealism. If the Arabs were more pacified, like the Tibetans for example, they could have even guilted Israel into giving them a state. 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

@PurpleTree Been doing shrooms since you were in diapers. Just on this forum for shits and giggles.

One day you will not even need shrooms anymore!

Sure

[How to be wise]

13 hours ago, Vrubel said:

After Israel conquered the West Bank and Gaza in the 6 day war, they were extremely open to negotiating some settlement in exchange for peace and recognition. Back then Israel was still very tiny population-wise and overwhelmingly secular. The most important thing was to just to feel safe but of course they were in exchange confronted with the three no's of Khartoum: 

،لا صلح مع إسرائيل
،لا تفاوض مع إسرائيل
لا اعتراف بإسرائيل

No peace with Israel,
No negotiation with Israel,
No recognition of Israel

 

Israel was not supposed to wait until the Palestinians love them. As soon as both sides agree to end the war, which they did, Israel was meant to withdraw completely from their land. Instead they established Jerusalem as their capital, and have remained ever since. As for the meeting in Khartoum, I totally agree with them. No peace on stolen land. 

[Vrubel]

52 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

As for the meeting in Khartoum, I totally agree with them. No peace on stolen land. 

After the six-day war, there was an opportunity for talks. Israel was eager to give land for peace and there were zero settlements back then. 

For the Arabs, this whole conflict is like a stock investment that keeps on going down but they never divest from it to save their remaining amount. Some very profound opportunities for peace were rejected or ignored and with each such miss, the stock value gets even lower. 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Vrubel

[Raze]

 

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Vrubel said:

After the six-day war, there was an opportunity for talks. Israel was eager to give land for peace and there were zero settlements back then. 

For the Arabs, this whole conflict is like a stock investment that keeps on going down but they never divest from it to save their remaining amount. Some very profound opportunities for peace were rejected or ignored and with each such miss, the stock value gets even lower. 

 

The Palestinians leadres and maybe even most of the palestinian people are more passionate on what they feel is their "justice" and their life meaning which is to revenge Israel and destroy it as much as possible.

In other words they are more red than blue, and the evidence is that 65% of the palestinians support hamas and support oct 7th according to surveys done in the west bank even, according to Israeli middle east expert I heard in an interview yesterday.

Maybe their meaning in life is literally realy to get back their honor as they see it in their mind, and a "state" and an organized life are really too boring to them and not in their interests. 

I think we can understand better the intuition of it if we think on a 9 year old boy who just lost a wrestling game with a friend or even a fighting in a video game. His life meaning in this phase is only to beat his friends back. Peace is very boring and meaningless at this point.

But in the root it is not really Israel's fault. They were that way even in 1930's with Amin El Husseini's ideology. Irans regime is also like this in many senses, so Hezbollah in Lebanon.

All of this explain to us that the palestinians (and other arab tribes and groups) revenge emotions are deeply rooted in reasons which are not Israel but created way before it.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Nivsch