New War In Israel / Gaza

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Merkabah Star 5 minutes ago you denied that hamas hides behind civilians and use them as a shield and dismissed it as a "cool story".

Then of course that Israel and hamas will seem to you as equal, when you design the reality however you want. 

The hiding behind civilians story has worn thin on the world stage. Sorry you still believe it. I guess you need to justify the endless  murdering of children otherwise you wouldn’t sleep at night. Now your country is starving babies to death. There really is no difference between them. Same same, not different. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

10 hours ago, Vrubel said:

For anyone wondering the reporting was for atrocity denial. It’s a dirty and highly dishonest agenda-driven game. But also unfortunately nothing surprising understanding the mentality of these people.
If you would really care about truth and “sourcing” you’d watch the public videos and photos or at least inform yourself of the existing material including footage that is so traumatizing it’s only shown to officials and journalists. You can read their notes. But really the public stuff is already bad enough. 

It's also totally in your right to not do any of those things but then just shut up, you have no right to do your downplaying, revisionism and denial. 

   I do care about truth and sourcing, so what posts did @Raze do that contained atrocity denial? And is it even in the forum guidelines?

   Right? Like freedom of speech, individualism, democracy? You think those extend to Actualized.org forum policy? And what right do you have to tell me what rights to exercise here in this forum? 

[Vrubel]

@Danioover9000 I already explained the sneaky game being played in the last post. Now you're just being willfully ignorant. Anybody can do whatever they want if they don't care about upholding standards. Like seriously guys show some capacity for intelligence and multi-layered thinking. 

A sign of a stupid person is when they have one pre-made narrative and squeeze every bit of information through that frame.

 

I found a cool video to get the look and feel of Gaza before the war. Surprisingly normal, A bit rough but not without its charm.

Not a single date palm would have as much as a scratch on its bark if Hamas never did their attack. They are also with the power to end it all and bring relief to their population. 

Gaza's biggest issue was unemployment and Israel was ready to help them with that by negotiating many 10,000’s of permits for jobs with a very decent pay and where they would have been treated with friendship and respect. But Hamas used this permit negotiation as a ploy to lull the Israelis.  

 

Edited March 6 by Vrubel

[Merkabah Star]

 

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

4 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

 

   I don't even know why IDF would shoot into the crowds, they could've just shot in mid air and gave warning shots or made a more secure area to distribute the food, yet they sent the trucks, allowed the starving Palestinians to swarm their trucks...to then shot at them??? I'd definitely be charging the soldiers who were shooting into the crowds. So unnecessary to do.

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

4 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Danioover9000 I already explained the sneaky game being played in the last post. Now you're just being willfully ignorant. Anybody can do whatever they want if they don't care about upholding standards. Like seriously guys show some capacity for intelligence and multi-layered thinking. 

A sign of a stupid person is when they have one pre-made narrative and squeeze every bit of information through that frame.

 

I found a cool video to get the look and feel of Gaza before the war. Surprisingly normal, A bit rough but not without its charm.

Not a single date palm would have as much of a scratch on its bark if Hamas never did their attack. They are also with the power to end it all and bring relief to their population. 

Gaza's biggest issue was unemployment and Israel was ready to help them with that by negotiating many 10,000’s of permits for jobs with a very decent pay and where they would have been treated with friendship and respect. But Hamas used this permit negotiation as a ploy to lull the Israelis.  

 

   Cool, so coming back to this specific issue of you reporting @Raze...which posts did you report that proves he was doing this 'denial' or spreading a conspiracy theory? I mean IMO absence of evidence = evidence of absence, which basically means you reported for nothing...unless you have proof?

   Not denying what HAMMAs did isn't terrible, I do condemn their actions as much as I condemn the IDF for open firing into starving dying Palestinians. Remember in a conflict it takes 2 to tango, so both sides share some guilt and blame of making this conflict much worse.

[Nivsch]

@Merkabah Star For me to deny the human shield issue as number one strategy and effort of hamas is similar to deny oct 7th.

You are free to think whatever you want, anyway.

Edited March 6 by Nivsch

[lina]

11 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I really don't understand the tactic of focusing on the borderline/problematic 5%+ and doing such efforts days and nights to make the other side to look as monsterous as possible.

It's not out of spite, it's an attempt to raise awareness regarding what's happening and stop it or at least decrease its severity. We're privileged to live in a time that has independent media that can scrutinize dangerous propaganda that has repeatedly been guilty of starting endless wars. Furthermore, what's shared here is only a small fraction of the graphic in-ground media a lot of people have been exposed to on a daily basis for the past 5 months.

We all know not all Israelis support blocking aid and not all IDF soldiers commit war crimes, the problem with that 5% you mentioned is that it signals a systematic problem in the Israeli gov because it continues to allow it. That 5% in a month will turn into 50% and become the standard if it's not stopped; instead, it's praised by gov officials like Ben Gvir's comment and his support for the Flour Massacre. 

7 hours ago, Vrubel said:

A sign of a stupid person is when they have one pre-made narrative and squeeze every bit of information through that frame.

Narratives change because of introduction of new information. The Israeli gov hasn't presented any new actions or proposals to make Pro-Palestinian people change their pre-narrative. If anything, it has confirmed the most extreme narrative out there which is the genocidal and ethnic cleansing intent.  On the other hand, some Pro-Israeli people are still stuck in Oct 7 narrative and regardless of how much new information they are being presented with in regards to what's taking place in Gaza, they still support this war.

Edited March 6 by lina

[lina]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961 

Canadian government will resume funding to United Nations relief agency for Palestinians: source

Hopefully, some good news in the horizon. Like in this case, public opinion and independent media that pushes for scrutiny can sometimes save lives.

[Merkabah Star]

4 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Merkabah Star

   I don't even know why IDF would shoot into the crowds, they could've just shot in mid air and gave warning shots or made a more secure area to distribute the food, yet they sent the trucks, allowed the starving Palestinians to swarm their trucks...to then shot at them??? I'd definitely be charging the soldiers who were shooting into the crowds. So unnecessary to do.

It’s an apocalyptic landscape at this point. Palestinians are all dehumanised. Their life means nothing. 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, lina said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961 

Canadian government will resume funding to United Nations relief agency for Palestinians: source

Hopefully, some good news in the horizon. Like in this case, public opinion and independent media that pushes for scrutiny can sometimes save lives.

That’s good. It looks like the other commonwealth countries will follow. 

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

It’s an apocalyptic landscape at this point. Palestinians are all dehumanised. Their life means nothing. 

   So what's next then? Will IDF keep on dehumanizing the Gazans? Would it take like concentration camps filled to the brim by Palestinians and Gazans or mass r***** like Nanking for the USA and rest of the world to quickly wake up and demand a ceasefire unconditionally? The IDF is gradually pushing their luck and really really really making Israel look bad. Why don't they do just a conditional ceasefire and sort out the civilians who are starving?

[Merkabah Star]

8 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Merkabah Star

   So what's next then? Will IDF keep on dehumanizing the Gazans? Would it take like concentration camps filled to the brim by Palestinians and Gazans or mass r***** like Nanking for the USA and rest of the world to quickly wake up and demand a ceasefire unconditionally? The IDF is gradually pushing their luck and really really really making Israel look bad. Why don't they do just a conditional ceasefire and sort out the civilians who are starving?

They think it’s Hamas doing it, not them. So, doubt they will stop. 

Edited March 7 by Merkabah Star

[Heaven]

Hamas started a war because they can’t sit around and continue to be funded by terror organizations worldwide.
The fact that they focused on building tunnels under the city shows that they don’t care what will happen above it.

Now IDF is doing an extremely hard job to avoid the next massacre. Of course when Hamas is hiding underground civilians will get hurt. To blame Israel for that it’s ridicule. 

[Merkabah Star]

Quote

UN experts have condemned the violence they say was unleashed by Israeli forces last week on Palestinians gathered in Gaza City to collect flour as a “massacre”.

In a statement, a group of UN special rapporteurs accused Israel of “intentionally starving the Palestinian people in Gaza since 8 October,” adding: “Now it is targeting civilians seeking humanitarian aid and humanitarian convoys.”

“Israel must end its campaign of starvation and targeting of civilians,” said the UN experts, who warned there was mounting evidence of famine in the Gaza Strip.

At least 112 people died and 760 were injured on Thursday when desperate crowds gathered to collect flour.

Witnesses in Gaza and some of the injured said Israeli forces opened fire on the crowd, causing panic. Israel said people died in a crush or were run over by aid lorries although it admitted its troops had fired on what it called a “mob”.

More than 100 Palestinians killed while waiting for aid in Gaza City – video report

“The attack came after Israel has denied humanitarian aid into Gaza City and northern Gaza for more than a month,” said the experts, who described “a pattern of Israeli attacks against Palestinian civilians seeking aid”.

There have been at least 14 similar reported incidents between mid-January and the end of February of the shooting, shelling and attacking of Palestinians who had gathered to receive humanitarian aid from trucks or airdrops.

Since the start of the conflict, Israel has targeted Palestinian food sources and agriculture – bakeries, orchards and greenhouses – as well as blocked humanitarian supplies. On 26 January, the international court of justice recognised the plausibility of Israel committing genocide and ordered it to allow the delivery of urgently needed humanitarian services and aid to Palestinians. The number of trucks allowed to enter the Gaza Strip has since fallen to 57 a day – compared with an average of 147 a day before the ICJ ruling.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/un-experts-condemn-israeli-massacre-of-palestinians-collecting-flour

 

[Merkabah Star]

From the same article above.

Quote

Under international law, the unconditional provision of humanitarian supplies such as food, water, shelter and medicine is a basic obligation during conflict.

Yet recent reports on the talks between Hamas and Israel on a proposed 40-day ceasefire suggest that as part of the terms of the negotiations, Israel has pledged to allow the entry of trucks and the delivery of tents, caravans, essential fuel, and construction materials to fix critical infrastructure such as hospitals and bakeries.

“Humanitarian aid must not be used as a bargaining chip in negotiations,” the experts said. “We reiterate our earlier call for an arms embargo and sanctions on Israel, as part of all states’ duty to ensure respect for human rights and stop violations of international humanitarian law by Israel.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/un-experts-condemn-israeli-massacre-of-palestinians-collecting-flour

 

[Twentyfirst]

On 3/3/2024 at 1:03 AM, Nivsch said:

This country legitimately belongs to Arabs and Jews as one.

Palestine belongs to the Palestinians

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Heaven said:

Hamas started a war because they can’t sit around and continue to be funded by terror organizations worldwide.
The fact that they focused on building tunnels under the city shows that they don’t care what will happen above it.

Now IDF is doing an extremely hard job to avoid the next massacre. Of course when Hamas is hiding underground civilians will get hurt. To blame Israel for that it’s ridicule. 

+1 ❤

[zazen]

16 hours ago, lina said:

It's not out of spite, it's an attempt to raise awareness regarding what's happening and stop it or at least decrease its severity. We're privileged to live in a time that has independent media that can scrutinize dangerous propaganda that has repeatedly been guilty of starting endless wars. Furthermore, what's shared here is only a small fraction of the graphic in-ground media a lot of people have been exposed to on a daily basis for the past 5 months.

We all know not all Israelis support blocking aid and not all IDF soldiers commit war crimes, the problem with that 5% you mentioned is that it signals a systematic problem in the Israeli gov because it continues to allow it. That 5% in a month will turn into 50% and become the standard if it's not stopped; instead, it's praised by gov officials like Ben Gvir's comment and his support for the Flour Massacre. 

Narratives change because of introduction of new information. The Israeli gov hasn't presented any new actions or proposals to make Pro-Palestinian people change their pre-narrative. If anything, it has confirmed the most extreme narrative out there which is the genocidal and ethnic cleansing intent.  On the other hand, some Pro-Israeli people are still stuck in Oct 7 narrative and regardless of how much new information they are being presented with in regards to what's taking place in Gaza, they still support this war.

Well said and good example of how UNRWA funding is being reinstated (and increased) by Canada now. Thats exactly the point of public commentary and shifting the narrative rather than have it maliciously controlled by vested interests. The damage has already been done as funding had been pulled but hopefully the return of some funders help alleviate the suffering of the Palestinians.

On 06/03/2024 at 9:22 AM, Vrubel said:

This is not what's happening. If you would really care to know the truth you would not be engaged in playing such sneaky agenda-driven games. Even if some false individual claims arose and were later proven false this does not diminish the absolute animalistic savagery and sadistic barbarity of the attack. The truth is already so starkly horrific enough you're not serving the truth by playing this game of finding some false claims and running with it like Forest Gump. You're only serving your narrative by mushing every bit of information through your own specific frame. Believe me Israelis, even children know what the truth of 7/10 is.

I started my longer comment with this: ''Theirs a difference between denying atrocity and debunking amplified stories about atrocities which have been used for propaganda - to propagate and justify further atrocities.''  Meaning, false claims are used to cause untold suffering which is why they need to be checked - in the hopes that things can be de-escalated. The same should happen on false claims being made of Israel and Israelis which only deepens the hate.  As Lina said, with new information we change our perspective - if Israel allows investigative bodies to verify claims and they come out to be true most people would happily accept them. 

The point is that in the name of 1 day of atrocity occurring, the response of 150 days of atrocities and suffering towards the Palestinians is being justified by the Israeli side (human shield, hostages). If we want to view it just by the numbers which is silly to be comparative like that but just as a thought exercise to get the point across:

 Could we say that the Palestinians having suffered for 150 days versus Israel having suffered for 1 day - means they are now justified to cause 150x this amount of suffering in their own self defence and revenge towards Israel? That would be 60 years of pain (almost a whole life time).  Imagine how silly it would be if they justified that and said their trying to get to the Israeli government and the likes of Ben Gvir etc but they need to get through the Isreali population who they call human shields and blockade the entire population into starvation as a tactic to pressure the few extremist elites as a negotiation tactic.

Edited March 7 by zazen

[Vrubel]

@zazen I already explained it, read again what I wrote in my last few posts. Maybe even contemplate and reflect a bit. Right now you’re just talking past me so there is nothing I can do. The level of discourse here is so low that I am not even arguing or showing you other (perhaps more sophisticated) narratives and POVs but I am simply defending the truth of 7/10 from the onslaught of your all-corrupting claws/narrative pushing.