New War In Israel / Gaza

[Raze]

 Oct 7 false claims analysis part 1

One IDF commander in Kfar Aza and Be'eri claimed to an i24 News reporter that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims

source

But, only two babies are known to have died as a result of that attack, one from a bullet, the other shortly after birth in a hospital 

source

Zaka member Landua described finding a pregnant woman in Kibbutz Be’eri in a “big puddle of blood, face down.”

“Her stomach was butchered open,” Landau said. “The baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed.”

In Be’eri, he said, he also found a family who was tied up, tortured, and executed with a bullet to the back of the head: father, mother, and two small children around 6 or 7 years old. An eye was missing, fingers chopped off. Landau later told CNN, “The terrorists were having a ball,” with Palestinian militants devouring a holiday meal set out by the family. Landau broke down recounting the tale, as a CNN reporter comforted him.

source

however no proof was given of the butchered mother and fetus and Haaretz reporters conclude it didn’t happen 

source

no one killed in Be’eri matches Landau’s account of the tortured family either, 12 year old twins died when in a house fired on by a idf tank 

source

Landau was also the source of the beheaded children claim repeated by Joe Biden 

source

however there is currently no evidence of it and the idf haven’t confirmed it , Landau now denies claiming he saw beheaded children

The NYT reported a investigative report alleging hamas conducted mass rapes, the main example being Gal Abdush who it reported was raped and a video of her identified as “the woman in the black dress” went viral

source

however no such video exists and her family has stated she wasn’t raped

Edited March 5 by Raze

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

Last night I wrote some heartful and thought-out peace and wisdom-oriented pieces on my phone to maybe share on this thread but seeing how it's further devolving into absolute toxicity I'd rather keep it for myself and not dishonor it by posting it here.

This is why I get accused of bias and for good reason. I'd rather be biased and express my admiration and defend Israel by standing up against the lies than dignify the uber-hypocrite, brainless and toxic menace that represents the other side.

Maybe start a journal thread? 

 

[Merkabah Star]

48 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Palestinian suffering, especially children, should be the more reason why Hamas should put down its arms and surrender. But they don't care! The suffering of their people is just another weapon in their arsenal. On the 6th Oct all was fine with their people. Yes it was! I have never seen a refugee home with a marble stairway before.

🎗️💙🇮🇱💙🎗️

By lella.cachia, comment under Times of Israel article

It is difficult to respond to this type of post. 

 

[Vrubel]

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

Reported for sourcing claims? 

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch Hey, I do respectfully suggest we don’t demonize news reports that are not favourable to Israel. The same should be true for news that isn’t favourable to Palestine. 
 

If something is true, like an event that happened and it’s being reported by news stations, and people on the ground in Gaza (many who are doctors from other nations) and to assume it’s lies is a problem in my opinion. If you simply deny and reject news you don’t like… it’s not adding to the thread. But, if you have proof something is false… that is different.

Edited March 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Raze I don’t know what is true or what your goal is with sharing what you are sharing here. 
 

It seems to be offending some users though. Be mindful of that.

Edited March 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

When you demonize, mock, belittle, lower, make stupid, project bad intentions on others who disagree with you… you are shutting yourself off to seeing the situation objectively. 
 

Please be wary of doing this. 

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

35 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

When you demonize, mock, belittle, lower, make stupid, project bad intentions on others who disagree with you… you are shutting yourself off to seeing the situation objectively. 
 

Please be wary of doing this. 

   100% Agree with this. Don't be too biased guys.

   Also interesting move by China to publicly support Palestine's right to defend itself:

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

   I'm sorry, where in the forum guidelines does it say it's an offence to share sources, facts, evidence, and data to support your posts and assertions made?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi_mKzxj96EAxXoUUEAHUmsCOAQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.actualized.org%2Fforum%2Fguidelines%2F&usg=AOvVaw1d9hk08qnMoJp_e5gPMcEd&opi=89978449

Can you show me and others what specific grounds you have for reporting @Raze's post here:

2 hours ago, Raze said:

 Oct 7 false claims analysis part 1

One IDF commander in Kfar Aza and Be'eri claimed to an i24 News reporter that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims

source

But, only two babies are known to have died as a result of that attack, one from a bullet, the other shortly after birth in a hospital 

source

Zaka member Landua described finding a pregnant woman in Kibbutz Be’eri in a “big puddle of blood, face down.”

“Her stomach was butchered open,” Landau said. “The baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed.”

In Be’eri, he said, he also found a family who was tied up, tortured, and executed with a bullet to the back of the head: father, mother, and two small children around 6 or 7 years old. An eye was missing, fingers chopped off. Landau later told CNN, “The terrorists were having a ball,” with Palestinian militants devouring a holiday meal set out by the family. Landau broke down recounting the tale, as a CNN reporter comforted him.

source

however no proof was given of the butchered mother and fetus and Haaretz reporters conclude it didn’t happen 

source

no one killed in Be’eri matches Landau’s account of the tortured family either, 12 year old twins died when in a house fired on by a idf tank 

source

Landau was also the source of the beheaded children claim repeated by Joe Biden 

source

however there is currently no evidence of it and the idf haven’t confirmed it , Landau now denies claiming he saw beheaded children

The NYT reported a investigative report alleging hamas conducted mass rapes, the main example being Gal Abdush who it reported was raped and a video of her identified as “the woman in the black dress” went viral

source

however no such video exists and her family has stated she wasn’t raped

   Main reason why I ask is I have PTSD when it comes to reporting, it's annoying to deal with in this forum, so we have to make sure the reasoning is solid and valid, otherwise other users will abuse the report function and we all hold each other accountable here.

Edited March 5 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

   Very tense exchange between Journalist and USA department guy:

 

[Vrubel]

For anyone wondering the reporting was for atrocity denial. It’s a dirty and highly dishonest agenda-driven game. But also unfortunately nothing surprising understanding the mentality of these people.
If you would really care about truth and “sourcing” you’d watch the public videos and photos or at least inform yourself of the existing material including footage that is so traumatizing it’s only shown to officials and journalists. You can read their notes. But really the public stuff is already bad enough. 

It's also totally in your right to not do any of those things but then just shut up, you have no right to do your downplaying, revisionism and denial. 

Edited March 5 by Vrubel

[Thought Art]

@Vrubel The attack on Israel as far as I can tell is well documented. I don’t know why he is questioning it. 
 

 

[Thought Art]

 

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@Vrubel The attack on Israel as far as I can tell is well documented. I don’t know why he is questioning it. 

 

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

For anyone wondering the reporting was for atrocity denial. It’s a dirty and highly dishonest agenda-driven game. But also unfortunately nothing surprising understanding the mentality of these people.
If you would really care about truth and “sourcing” you’d watch the public videos and photos or at least inform yourself of the existing material including footage that is so traumatizing it’s only shown to officials and journalists. You can read their notes. But really the public stuff is already bad enough. 

It's also totally in your right to not do any of those things but then just shut up, you have no right to do your downplaying, revisionism and denial. 

I am not downplaying or denying the attack, I am posting sources that many specific claims do not have proof or have been debunked. If I’m wrong you can quote specifically which one is.

I’m questioning it because many of the claims that many still take at face value have been disputed or still haven’t had proof presented, this is important because exaggerating war crimes has historically been used to justify greater military action.

Edited March 6 by Raze

[zazen]

Theirs a difference between denying atrocity and debunking amplified stories about atrocities which have been used for propaganda - to propagate and justify further atrocities.

Nothing wrong in questioning distortions or exposing propaganda, especially with sources. Denying that any atrocities took place only delegitimises the person in denial of them  - but people aren’t denying October 7th was atrocious, just the stories that have plot holes in them or lack evidence.

Regarding the flour massacre “The IDF claims Israeli troops only began firing on the Palestinians because the soldiers “felt threatened” by them, which goes to show that there is no atrocity Israel could possibly commit where it wouldn’t frame itself as the victim - for they are the eternal victims.”

At least a lot of Western media and institutions don’t deny atrocities taking place in Gaza due to the visible evidence - they just leave out the perpetrator committing them. All the Western elites say they are ‘concerned’ about this ongoing crisis yet do nothing to stop it. Biden has ‘angry calls’ and apparently name calls Netenyahu yet does nothing about it. Optics for election year? or is it that true power to affect change lies elsewhere. Either way, the US can’t claim to be for peace and concerned about loss of life or call for ceasefire then veto it 4 times in 5 months at UN like a pariah state and a liability to world peace and harmony.

The US tells Israel to ‘be careful’ in how they commit a plausible genocide whilst their military industrial complex loads the gun for them. Like a bad parent giving their unhinged child a bottle of wine and saying don’t do too much now little Timmy.

Edited March 6 by zazen

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

I really don't understand the tactic of focusing on the borderline/problematic 5%+ and doing such efforts days and nights to make the other side to look as monsterous as possible. This is a cold calculated stragety the pro palestinian side is champion in. This is so toxic, just in analogy to how the bully child in school make everyone else to laugh at the shy quiet kid.

I could also use this tactic on Canada and people here will be sure at the end of the day that Canada is the darkest place on earth with the worst people. But I won't. I don't believe in this evil way.

Edited March 6 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

@Nivsch 

It is hard when people call out your country and you live there and see it all a totally different way. And I dont think anyone here is really denying the horrendous attack on Israel. Is it justified to massacre over 30,000 people because of it? No. 

Israel could have reacted in a highly conscious way and showed true compassion and create real and lasting peace. Instead it has acted as horrific as Hamas. There really is no difference to your country and Hamas. 

The apparent pro Palestinian posters on this thread are trying to show you, you are the same as Hamas. So it’s hurtful to your emotional state to hear it. It’s labeled toxic. When it’s not. 

 

[Nivsch]

@Merkabah Star 5 minutes ago you denied that hamas hides behind civilians and use them as a shield and dismissed it as a "cool story".

Then of course that Israel and hamas will seem to you as equal, when you design the reality however you want. 

Edited March 6 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

Nothing wrong in questioning distortions or exposing propaganda, especially with sources. Denying that any atrocities took place only delegitimises the person in denial of them  - but people aren’t denying October 7th was atrocious, just the stories that have plot holes in them or lack evidence.

This is not what's happening. If you would really care to know the truth you would not be engaged in playing such sneaky agenda-driven games. Even if some false individual claims arose and were later proven false this does not diminish the absolute animalistic savagery and sadistic barbarity of the attack. The truth is already so starkly horrific enough you're not serving the truth by playing this game of finding some false claims and running with it like Forest Gump. You're only serving your narrative by mushing every bit of information through your own specific frame. Believe me Israelis, even children know what the truth of 7/10 is.