New War In Israel / Gaza

[lina]

@Danioover9000 Yeah I understand you, I was mainly referring to when people use the model to paint entire nations with a stage or two and then start to justify why those peoples' lives are not as worthy and don't deserve to have sovereignty as @zazen mentioned as an example, or why violence and oppression is the only solution to deal with them. If anything the emergence of red stage is due to the constant threat of violence, so purposefully inhibiting the development or a certain group and then blaming them for it to keep them in this cycle sounds very devilish to me. 

[Raze]

 

[kenway]

 

[Nivsch]

@Raze This video provides interesting points to discuss along with other weaker claims and of course dismissing of any hamas and palestinians responsibility in this tango.

However this is light years away from the persecution's original accusation anyway.

There is a deep and intersting to me psychological issue with the passion when people want to blame Israel that is still never the same as another war zones discussion where the situation is far worse 

Edited January 13, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

"The lesson of the Holocaust, is not that you should defend Israel when it is committing atrocities, but rather that one should stand against atrocities regardless of who commits them, and who endures them."

 - Riyad Mansour

[Lila9]

19 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Israel's response was so much more directive, broad in their context that could keep a sensible and healthy structure all along the way, calm even, confident and to the point. For me it is very clear.

This is not to say there are no problems need to be addressed as I said before in my comment to the video of ex-IDF soldier @Raze added, but the whole accusation of "genocide" is an entire house of cards. Absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C18_7x8th4j/?igsh=MTJicHZpNHdvMjhu

 

[Lila9]

Someone who have never been here or lived here calling our state an Apartheid lol.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C19o4YQI408/?igsh=MWxob3drY2ZlaDg2eg==

[kenway]

 

 

I found this really fascinating. Pretty neutral too, so no propaganda here. Maybe @Leo Gura might enjoy too.

 

[Nivsch]

33 minutes ago, kenway said:

I found this really fascinating. Pretty neutral too, so no propaganda here. Maybe @Leo Gura might enjoy too.

Pretty neutral 😂🤣 

Man why can't you do it a bit more sophisticatly and at least add some regular videos of regular Israelis (not just weirdous) and show the problems there? You will appear much more reliable.

For your favor I am saying.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Pretty neutral 😂🤣 

Man why can't you do it a bit more sophisticatly and at least add some regular videos of Israelis (not just weirdous) and show the problems there? You will be seen much more reliable.

For your favor I am saying.

 

Dude you are so bad faith, and frankly a little bit paranoid.

If you cannot see that I posted that video in good faith then you are beyond redemption. What am I doing that is supposed to be "sophisticated?"

You're looking for agency and propaganda where there is none, which I think is exactly what @Danioover9000 was referring to when talking about the polarised mindset.

It's precisely the desire to escape the polarized mindset that I thought the video would be interesting to everyone in this thread, remain topical, but be free from the typical biases that this thread has gotten used to.

Did you even watch the video? (again). 

Edited January 13, 2024 by kenway

[Nivsch]

I tried to think on a serious answer but I see no point and really couldnt find one. I cant relate to that seriously.

If you can't see or admit the problem to yourself then OK. Keep in your way and do not disturb yourself.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD

Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way?

As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith.

Thankyou.

Edited January 13, 2024 by kenway

[Happy Lizard]

48 minutes ago, kenway said:

FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD

Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way?

As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith.

Thankyou.

I think it wasn’t obvious that you were posting the video in an attempt to show “a side” of the Israeli society, they way Leo posts videos on his blog for example, but instead it looked like you were saying this is how a natural Israel looks like meaning this is the everyday Israel. its like you posted about the amish community in the US and said this is what a neutral America looks like.

You said it has no propaganda which was true and I though it was “neutral” in the sense you where not saying Israel bad or good but just showing one side you found interesting. I think @Nivsch was a bit sensitive/jumped too quickly.

Ps: I thought they way they speak Hebrew is nice, I like languages.

I think @Nivsch you should post what you perceives as neutral Israel as you live there. I’m both interested in general and just to see what side of Israel you are you most exposed to.

[Nivsch]

@Happy Lizard The video is light years away from daily Israel.

But I don't want to force anybody to think in some way or another or to see beyond his or her heavy filters.

I live here 36 years and the degree this is so far from average Israel was the reason I laughed so hard, from the absurdity 🙂

Your Idea is good and I will definitly do it. Thank you for your sincere desire to know and that you are open. I appreciate this.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

@Nivsch

The irony is that I found every person in that video to be fundamentally beautiful in some way or another.

You complain about not showing regular Israelis. But if by “regular Israelis” you mean people like yourself, then I can only conclude that “regular Israelis” are total fucking assholes.

I’ll take my chances with the “weirdos” thanks.

@Happy Lizard Good synopsis. And thank-you for replying I appreciate your time.

[Nivsch]

@kenwayI understand you were hurted from what I said.

If I was wrong I am apologize and take my claim about your intention back.

Don't take it personally. I feel an enormous hypocricy and dehumanization from the discussion here about Israel many times, and it might be that you just don't see this and that you acted from good intentions.

So please just stay with what I wrote about the video (minus the relation to you which I erase now from the discussion and from the message).

Have a good night. Here it is night anyway.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Nivsch

[kenway]

28 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@kenwayI understand you were hurted from what I said.

If I was wrong I am apologize and take my claim about your intention back.

Don't take it personally. I feel an enormous hypocricy and dehumanization from the discussion here about Israel many times, and it might be that you just don't see this and that you acted from good intentions.

So please just stay with what I wrote about the video (minus the relation to you which I erase now from the discussion and from the message).

Have a good night. Here it is night anyway.

 

Okay that's fine. Have a good night.

[Nivsch]

@Nabd I appreciate your nuanced view. Only one crazy out of many is fair enough analogy.

But I can't agree to the accusation being discussed last week. This is totally ridiculous. 

I saw most of the six hour talks in hugue. Israel's explanations were very grounded to me succeeded easily to hold a stable healthy wide context to its claims.

In the other hand the accusation was based on fragments of claims that can indicate problems, but can never compose the puzzle to make their accusation plausible.

If you want we can discuss problems. But the game of "genocide" I won't play.

And now I really must go to sleep.

Edited January 14, 2024 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

31 minutes ago, kenway said:

Okay that's fine. Have a good night.

Thanks. Good night.

[Lila9]

12 hours ago, kenway said:

FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD

Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way?

As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith.

Thankyou.

This is my honest opinion, I don't know if you are psychologically open minded enough to accept it. I assume that, by your request, you are open enough, or at least, I hope so.

This video is highly biased against the Israeli state. This specific sect is a minority, even in Jerusalem.

What is ironic is that they live in the Israeli state, safely and apparently thriving while being protected by the IDF from Palestinian terrorists who would have killed them without thinking twice, because a Jew is a Jew and infidels are infidels.

All of that while being against Israel and pro its enemy, who is antisemitic and would like to destroy Israel to create a Jewish-free dictatorship and an Islamic state.

Some people in Israel compare them to those Jews in the Holocaust who were cooperating with the Nazis and were helping these Nazis against their Jewish sisters and brothers.

I don't know how one, living in Israel and experiencing all the terror and loss in lives caused by pure hatred towards Israelis, can rationalize this in such a way that they identify themselves as the supporters of their killers and enemies. This goes beyond human survival logic, maybe this explains why those people are such a minority.

I often visit beautiful Jerusalem, diverse in people, and I see great love and appreciation for the Israeli state, especially among religious people. Maybe you can include those types of videos if you are really trying to be neutral.

It's funny that you see people who are for Israel's destruction as neutral while boldly ignoring and not considering the other perspective.

It's also amusing that you support people who advocate the destruction of Israel, and you endorse individuals with the intention of genociding Israelis (Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis).

You rationalize and justify these actions against Israel by believing it deserves it due to occupation and apartheid.

You are supporting the modern Nazis, who are the radical Islamists today.

Nazis justified the killing of Jews by claiming they were occupying the best workplaces from German people and wanted to control everything, while Jews were the minority.

The same goes here: Muslims occupy the entire Middle East (with the intention to occupy the entire world among radicals), while there is a Jewish minority settling in their historical land. They rationalize and justify horrific terror attacks against this Jewish minority, massacres, genocide, and ethnic cleansing against Jews just because they are "occupying" a land.

And then they cry and play themselves as victims when this Jewish state is trying to defend itself.