New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

 

This thing has happened in the 2000's in some of the sub units within the combatants.

There is idiocy and toxic cells everywhere you go all over the world, but you choose to cherry pick those to create toxic symmetry which can happen only in fairy tales between Israel and the medieval barbarism arount it.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

within IDF this is relatively rare. 

Mass killing kids and breaking international laws unfortunately is not  

I saw recently a British UN in Gaza saying "This is a war on childreen".  A guy from a country that supports Israel that is actually in Gaza since 2 months says that. It shows so much about what is going on there.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Danioover9000]

@Twentyfirst

8 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just like how Israel says its okay to take land because the UN says so but ignores international law of everything else 

Just like how Israel says it's okay to take land because the UN said so? Did they? I thought the UN condemned Israel for committing international war crimes and condemned them for taking land?

[Nivsch]

31 minutes ago, lina said:

I understand you represent a reasonable Israeli perspective, but I still cannot find any justification even for shooting their leg. Making people crippled for life or amputees is not something to be taken lightly. Especially because this was in the occupied territories of west bank, from a legal and moral point of view Palestinians have every right to resist. 

Technically this is not that simple when parents send their poor children to put an exclusive device to IDF soldiers. You don't appreciate how different their world view from me and you. This is not just hamas. 

But anyway if they can neutralize them by unharming materials like the police use to control violent protests this is of course better.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twentyfirst

Just like how Israel says it's okay to take land because the UN said so? Did they? I thought the UN condemned Israel for committing international war crimes and condemned them for taking land?

I mean back in 48 with the British and UN 

[Lila9]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Wow thats great and so true (the whole message I just cutted the punchline) Like it.

You wrote in from your own? Its genius.

Zionism here got a new function as a mental frame people use here as often as they breath, to keep them in distance from Israelis and above them, and not confront the fact they are humane exactly like them.

Thank you  

I had a creative spark at night, glad that you liked!

That's hilarious how people describe Zionists and what evil characteristics they attribute to them, without realizing that they are normal people dealing with terror, not that different from the average American, French, German or any other hunan who may deal with the same Islamic terror threat.

A Zionist = a Jew who wants to live in his only ancestral land. So simple.

 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

43 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

You are right. Come visit here and judge for yourself.

This is an honest thing to say. We all might be that way if we were palestinians. I want to believe I would be different because even here I hate any herd thinking especially in health and mental health issues, but yes I could be one of them I can't know.

I want to believe stage red can look healthier than the palestinians culture. They are not only red (mainly red) but also there is something more there, you can see the cruelty and the roughness in every thing they do also to themselves. There must be here something more like a kind of mental disorder in a collective scale.

I think healthy blue is better than broken orange. Thats for sure.

Also I think the right frame is "Transcend, include and forget".

When orange becomes green he remembers again some blue and purple qualities. But now they get mixed with orange to create a new color but this is not that new except the color.

Development I think is realizing things you are in your subconsious ( and the deepest self) to begin with but you just have not seen them clearly before,

But also to itself if its unhealthy like you see in the palestinians.

Agree. Also in the health and mental health of people being toxicated with victim mentality "because this is how your brain is" "This is genetic so you can only live with it" "Those thoughts are just a meaningless disorder and bring nothing more with them" "Just tame your brain with techniques becuse it is a stupid machine" etc.

Agree.

   Is it reasonable and safe to tell a user to come visit and judge yourself in Israel, West Bank or Gaza when there's a war going on?

   You don't like conformity, yet you excuse the conformity and group think in Israel and Zionism?

   How is Palestinian culture stage red? Do you mean HAMAs or Palestinians in general, and why use Spiral Dynamics to generalize? Also, if there's some collective mental disorder in Palestinians, then does Israel have a collective mental disorder from Nazi Germany's holocaust? Is the cause for Palestinian's collective mental health disorder caused by Israel's actions?

   How is healthy stage blue better than excess stage orange?

   How is 'transcend, include and forget.' the right framing, considering you misquoted Ken Wilbur's 'transcend and include.'. Why include 'forget.'? Is there something you want the world to forget about Israel's actions?

   Why are you personifying Spiral Dynamics colours when this modal is about human values evolution: 'when orange becomes green he remembers again some blue and purple qualities. But now they get mixed with orange to create a new colour but this is not that new except the colours'? Are you conflating Spiral Dynamics with colour theory?

   If development is when a person realizes things within their subconscious they haven't realized before, how does this help the Israel/Palestine conflict when both sides are in deep denial of and are ignorant of their actions? Also you said it's quite unhealthy in Palestinians, but what about the Israelis taking land from them, and being lead by Zionists and nationalists who are similar to Nazi Germany? Is Israel and Israelis then, by your meaning of development, not developed enough?

[Lila9]

Heartbreaking how many cultures have been removed due to Islamic occupation of the middle east. 

The middle east looked differently prior to Islam, many many beautiful cultures. Huge variety.

And now there is Islamic superiority there and everyone who is not a Muslim is doomed to constant violence and terror attacks.

Islam occupied 50 countries, and nobody's care but when Jews return to their only homeland after being occupied and expelled twice, everyone shouts that Jews are occupiries of the poor Muslims.

And not only that, they expect from Israel to tolerate the abuse of the Muslim Arabs who call themselves Palestinians and "treat them better" despite these poor Palestinians wanting to eliminate all the Jews, and despite Jordon, Lebanon and Syria still treating the Palestinians in their territory like a class B citizens. The quality of life of Palestinians in Arab countries are worse that the life quality of Palestinians of the WB and Gaza together.

Yet, nobody cares about Palestinians in the Arab countries 🙂

Syria alone expelled 850,000 Palestinians. Nobody cares. 

What an hypocritical world 🤦🏼‍♀️

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Lila9

[Nivsch]

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Is it reasonable and safe to tell a user to come visit and judge yourself in Israel,

I meant generally. But Israel itself is quite OK even now. besides the missiles being shot to here every couple of hours but maybe that only me that got used to it.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

You don't like conformity, yet you excuse the conformity and group think in Israel and Zionism?

In what context? I don't understand.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

How is Palestinian culture stage red? Do you mean HAMAs or Palestinians in general,

hamas has not been elected in open air. Those civilians who elected it and those civilians who were dance in glory in the streets after 7.10.

Those are civilians who educate their children to kill Israelis and to think Shahids are herous.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Is the cause for Palestinian's collective mental health disorder caused by Israel's actions?

But this ideology was here also in 1930's with Amin El Husseini and his supporter which was before Israel.

Hezbollah in Lebanon (aren't occupied by anyone and anything) holds the same ideology.

Their barbarians views towards other groups within them too.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

How is healthy stage blue better than excess stage orange?

Stage orange has gone too far in his technicall view of life, health, mental health and forgot the importance of meaning and spirit from stage blue.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 How is 'transcend, include and forget.' the right framing, considering you misquoted Ken Wilbur's 'transcend and include.'. Why include 'forget.'? Is there something you want the world to forget about Israel's actions?

Partially forget but it doesn't sound as good  Not everything I write is because of Israel Lol

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Why are you personifying Spiral Dynamics colours when this modal is about human values evolution:

But why not a single person develop also in this way?

I am not saying this is perfect but rather the reality is very complicated and the development is also in parallel.

Someone get in a year for example 25% of green and from them he makes 9% of yellow which from them 0.6% of turquoise.

And the year after 15%, 11% and 1.3% respectively.

Thats at least how I feel it happening in real life for myself.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Zionists and nationalists who are similar to Nazi Germany?

How it can be even 0.1% that way this is crazy you will have to explain this claim.

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Is Israel and Israelis then, by your meaning of development, not developed enough?

Israel is blue-orange-green and have a lot to developed into of course.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Heartbreaking how many cultures have been removed due to Islamic occupation of the middle east. 

The middle east looked differently prior to Islam, many many beautiful cultures. Huge variety.

And now there is Islamic superiority there and everyone who is not a Muslim is doomed to constant violence and terror attacks.

Islam occupied 50 countries, and nobody's care but when Jews return to their only homeland after being occupied and expelled twice, everyone shouts that Jews are occupiries of the poor Muslims.

And not only that, they expect from Israel to tolerate the abuse of the Muslim Arabs who call themselves Palestinians and "treat them better" despite these poor Palestinians wanting to eliminate all the Jews, and despite Jordon, Lebanon and Syria still treating the Palestinians in their territory like a class B citizens. The quality of life of Palestinians in Arab countries are worse that the life quality of Palestinians of the WB and Gaza together.

Yet, nobody cares about Palestinians in the Arab countries 🙂

Syria alone expelled 850,000 Palestinians. Nobody cares. 

What an hypocritical world 🤦🏼‍♀️

 

   How is it heartbreaking that many cultures were removed when Islam occupied the middle east, taking into account the rampant rapes and pillaging that these tribal cultures often do with each other due to differences in worship, in iconography, in having multiple nature deities, in having fringe worldviews? Those stage purple/red tribes can't even agree on a consensus reality that doesn't include their tribe as the dominant structure in that consensus, and when Islam emerged as a religion seeking to unify under it's organized religious structure the many tribes, the many stage red/purple tribes violently resisted.

   Yes, I agree the middle east looked so differently before Islam emerged out of necessity, so many varieties of deity worship, tribalism, tribal warfare, slavery, murders and rapes, vast and huge in so many ways to live life per tribal structure that who knows who had the right way to live life? Do you know which tribal structure is best for the world then? Do you know which way of tribal life is best in the middle east?

   Yes I know right? When Islam has superiority everyone in that place is so violent under the caliphate Islamic subjugation, under the Sufi and Shia differences and similarities, with their interpretations of the Quran. Damn, Indonesia and it's Muslim dominant Islands so violent, it's a miracle how Islam can mix well with Hinduism and Buddhism and Christianity in some of those Islands.

   I agree nobody cares about Palestinians and those other 50 occupied Islamic countries, but conversely nobody cared to point out that Israel is pseudo copying Nazi Germany's expansionism and mistreatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West bank as second class citizens, to guess what? being called an anti-Semite, maybe worse than being called Islamophobic right?

[kenway]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

A Zionist = a Jew who wants to live in his only ancestral land. So simple.

It's not simple though, or at least not in this regard. It has been said: most Jews aren't Zionists, and most Zionists aren't Jewish.

Factoring in Christian Zionism, for example.

And Political Zionism wasn't as concerned with ancestral homelands, as the Messianic Zionists.

Which leads to the question: Are the Religious Zionists exploiting the Political Zionists?

I have a lot of empathy for the Political Zionists - it's not an unreasonable movement. But Religious Zionism is crazy, racist, dangerous, and spiritually malfunctioned.

 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Lila9

   How is it heartbreaking that many cultures were removed when Islam occupied the middle east, taking into account the rampant rapes and pillaging that these tribal cultures often do with each other due to differences in worship, in iconography, in having multiple nature deities, in having fringe worldviews? Those stage purple/red tribes can't even agree on a consensus reality that doesn't include their tribe as the dominant structure in that consensus, and when Islam emerged as a religion seeking to unify under it's organized religious structure the many tribes, the many stage red/purple tribes violently resisted.

   Yes, I agree the middle east looked so differently before Islam emerged out of necessity, so many varieties of deity worship, tribalism, tribal warfare, slavery, murders and rapes, vast and huge in so many ways to live life per tribal structure that who knows who had the right way to live life? Do you know which tribal structure is best for the world then? Do you know which way of tribal life is best in the middle east?

   Yes I know right? When Islam has superiority everyone in that place is so violent under the caliphate Islamic subjugation, under the Sufi and Shia differences and similarities, with their interpretations of the Quran. Damn, Indonesia and it's Muslim dominant Islands so violent, it's a miracle how Islam can mix well with Hinduism and Buddhism and Christianity in some of those Islands.

   I agree nobody cares about Palestinians and those other 50 occupied Islamic countries, but conversely nobody cared to point out that Israel is pseudo copying Nazi Germany's expansionism and mistreatment of Palestinians in Gaza and West bank as second class citizens, to guess what? being called an anti-Semite, maybe worse than being called Islamophobic right?

Islam is the problem in the Middle East! Not zionism that literally says that only Jews can live in a specific area and everyone else has to die horribly! Don't pay attention to Zionism. Instead pay attention to Islam which is similar to Judaism and Christianity! 

 

[StarStruck]

 

 

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Islam is the problem in the Middle East! Not zionism that literally says that only Jews can live in a specific area and everyone else has to die horribly! Don't pay attention to Zionism. Instead pay attention to Islam which is similar to Judaism and Christianity! 

 

Zionism is literally only 50-60 years old in the middle-east. It doesn't belong there in the first place. All pasty white people who wouldn't survive a week in the sun without getting cancer.

Edited December 5, 2023 by StarStruck

[How to be wise]

17 hours ago, Vrubel said:

man... Just look at Gaza right now... Aren't you supposed to care for these people?

Just imagine having a leadership that dehumanizes the shit out of you. 500km of tunnels, not a single civilian shelter! It does a horrific attack and then goes back to hide under your family's house. It absolutely doesn't give a fuck whether you live or die or how many of its own will get buried under the rubble. But Hey, we killed Jews, so totally worth it!

This is not the path of resistance, it's the path of being as dumb as a brick wall.  

The path of peace is the only path (especially for Palestinians if they want to be viewed as normal humans, first and foremost by their own government.)
 

Hamas is enjoying widespread support among Palestinians, both in Gaza and the West Bank. When Israel withdraws from Gaza, they will simply re-elect Hamas. And if any elections ever take place in the West Bank, Hamas will rule it also. This war has guaranteed Israel will never be safe, since the Palestinians now want Hamas more than ever. 

[How to be wise]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Syria alone expelled 850,000 Palestinians. Nobody cares. 

When did Syria expel 850,000 Palestinians?

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Hamas is enjoying widespread support among Palestinians, both in Gaza and the West Bank. When Israel withdraws from Gaza, they will simply re-elect Hamas. And if any elections ever take place in the West Bank, Hamas will rule it also. This war has guaranteed Israel will never be safe, since the Palestinians now want Hamas more than ever. 

Thats why IDF has to stay in the west bank.

[Vrubel]

Gaza a week before the war. Now a civilization gone with the wind. Because why choose life when you can kill Jews? 



 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

Hamas is enjoying widespread support among Palestinians, both in Gaza and the West Bank. When Israel withdraws from Gaza, they will simply re-elect Hamas. And if any elections ever take place in the West Bank, Hamas will rule it also. This war has guaranteed Israel will never be safe, since the Palestinians now want Hamas more than ever. 

Idk if thats true but after what Israel has done since Oct 7th I would imagine that they want even more revenge than they did before. You know theres something called cause and effect 

[Twentyfirst]

53 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Gaza a week before the war. Now a civilization gone with the wind. Because why choose life when you can kill Jews? 



 

Jews are the thousand year victims here. Nazis, being expelled from land many times, having enemies everywhere. Why does everyone apparently choose killing Jews over life? You tell us 

[Vrubel]

20 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Jews are the thousand year victims here. Nazis, being expelled from land many times, having enemies everywhere. Why does everyone apparently choose killing Jews over life? You tell us 

What about you study that history yourself instead of using anti-semitic dog whistles.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Vrubel