What is LOVE?, or: Why we have to go to war

[Yimpa]

@Sir Oberon You can also have altered states of consciousness without psychedelics if you’re a weirdo like me and some other users on here (Inliytened1 comes to mind)

[Sir Oberon]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

@Sir Oberon You can also have altered states of consciousness without psychedelics if you’re a weirdo like me and some other users on here (Inliytened1 comes to mind)

Ok, thanks for the insight.  I think I'm permanently stoned now.  I forget what normality was.

[Sir Oberon]

I like to put on some good music with awesome vibes,  and just relax in that space, simple-awareness.  Love saturates time and space... meditation is good too let's not forget.  Centering...

 

  

 

[BlueOak]

War is cyclic. It leads to another war.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Let’s go to war to settle our dispute then. Put em up!!

war? You're wrong, I just want to see through you, and I've already seen. What if you forget about Leo's stories, your need to appear smart, awake, your fear, your need for control, and take charge of your life, and be radically and totally honest? Or do you prefer to continue with children's games? do you get anything from them? appear as something important in your eyes? That's all lies and that is a pretty horrible prison. get out of jail man, you can

Edited October 6, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The expression God is creating reality for me is false. You could say God is reality, but then you can also say reality is reality. God implies a subject doing an action with a result, reality. That is not so, it is the reality springing from the fact that there are no limits. no one is needed imagining anything

That is on the right path, because to BE the Pure Impersonal Infinite all of these ideas/concepts have to be transcended/seen as moving within IT/Oneself. Then, Reality = God, God = Reality. Reality/God/Infinite manifests/imagines, or just contains a manifested side in it in a nondual way. One understands IT by BEING it. And removing the clouds/lenses/filters of the separate self/I-thoughts/feeling interpreting Awakenings. There is nothing else, nor could be. Only Ones True Nature/Being. Forever.

That is the difference between Enlightenment and Awakening, or the Deep Identity Shift after which the separate-self-arisings (I-thoughts, I -feelings, conceptual "Understandings") are seen fully and truly as moving WITHIN the Infinite Reality that one truly is. Afterwards, this Infinite True Being is accessible in daily life sobre. The Illusion-clouds are seen through very fast if one just "re"-intuits the Infinite beyond experience/manifestation/arising.

All of these facet-Understandings of God/Reality/Elephant can be generated after Enlightenment easily. Just a view Koans more, if its not already clear with Enlightenment. It is just what one is. But the Deep Identity Shift of truly "getting/realizing" the Impersonal Infinite Always Here Reality, ones True Nature, makes IT accessible afterwards in daily life sobre. That is the difference. The Elephant is realized UNFILTERED/uncoloured, unfiltered by remaining ego-filters/lenses. Pure uncoloured/unfiltered Impersonal Awareness realizes itself and Reality in a truly nondual way. Not just merging/unity with it and later separating again into something separate, but truly becoming it.

Not oil mixed with water and shaken and later separated, but ice molten in water. Ice = Illusion-clouds of being separate/ego, Being= ice molten in the water, only water again.

• Turning the oil into ice and melting it is the process of transcending and letting the illusion-separate-self/ego die/transcend it. Seeing them (fast enough) as objects moving within onself and cutting it off, just to see what happens.
• If that succeeds, the visual field turns nondual, boundless/limitless (nothing can be apart from it), eternal (always here), and the Deep Identity Shifts from ego to Infinite Totality beyond all experience by BEING it. Enlightenment in other words.

Becoming the elephant in Enlightenment, and telling about BEING the elephant, or touching the elephant in Awakenings while not truly becoming It (but Unity/Merging with it) and telling about its trunk/feet/ears as facets of Awakening. For sure then it appears there are always higher Awakenings with higher/more consciousness. I can fully understand how that perspective looks like, and before the big shift there will be no deviating from that. Either the deep identity shift happens, and the separate-self lense/filter/cloud can be fully seen through sobre, or not.  Chasing/Grasping the facets/Awakenings prevents dropping/letting-go into the truly impersonal pure Infinite Consciousness/Being.

What doesn't happen necessarily/normally in becoming the Elephant/Enlightenment is visiting some far out Astral/Subtle/Alien realms, or detailed mechanisms of manifestation. But that is manifestation/form-stuff, not the Infinite Absolute. But contained by it. Fascinating, fun and even important for sure. What humanity will do until the rest of eternity (more or less). But not as important as truly realizing and being ones True Being, just because the grasping never ends this way.

I also liked the posts of Osaid. That is all how it really is and works.

Water by the River

Edited October 6, 2023 by Water by the River

[gettoefl]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

God can absolutely understand God, and that is why Peter Ralston is NOT Awake.

Quote

 "The Absolute is not aware of itself or any happening." Nisargadatta

Paraphrasing: "In the absolute there no world and no consciousness. Nothing can be said about it whatsoever."

God doesn't even know its name. To do so it needs to drop to duality and inhabit my mind

[Water by the River]

 

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

God doesn't even know its name. To do so it needs to drop to duality and inhabit my mind

Yes. Awareness is so impersonal and pure that if nothing arises/manifests (including self-consciousness, separate self) it doesn't even know it exists. Infinite. Just Pure Nothingness/Awareness, with the potential of sentience or to be aware OF something. And that of can be a human separate self/ego.

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

 

Yes. Awareness is so impersonal and pure that if nothing arises/manifests (including self-consciousness, separate self) it doesn't even know it exists. Infinite. Just Pure Nothingness/Awareness, with the potential of sentience or to be aware OF something. And that of can be a human separate self/ego.

to be aware is absolute, to be aware of is relative meaning that you limited yourself

when you see a tree, that's a lie an illusion a thought an empty appearance, all there is is awareness of the whole before you

Edited October 6, 2023 by gettoefl

[An young being]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

 

Yes. Awareness is so impersonal and pure that if nothing arises/manifests (including self-consciousness, separate self) it doesn't even know it exists. Infinite. Just Pure Nothingness/Awareness, with the potential of sentience or to be aware OF something. And that of can be a human separate self/ego.

But human or animals or aliens are not the only self there is.

[Water by the River]

42 minutes ago, An young being said:

But human or animals or aliens are not the only self there is.

That can be anything sentient. And since there is only Infinite Consciousness, any Holon/perspective/being, from atom, bacteria, ant, animal, human (individual Holons), Alien, whatever n+1,  to large social Holons like a Planetery Consciousness/Gaia, Galaxy or whole Universes/Realms/Lokas/Buddhafields/Dimensions holding the individual holons/beings in their larger being/realm.

Up towards other Realms that are so alien/"other" one can not even talk about them because they don't have the correlates of this Realm like space/time/causality and so on (see for example Jac O'Keffee, Stephen Wolinsky, David Spandler, David Buckland).

All beings/realms have some kind of sentience/interiortiy/consciousness, and something that makes them individual from the Totality/Infinite Reality, and that "something/manifestation" arises within their perspectives.

Ken Wilber has a nice desription of Holons/perspectives/beings (both individual and social Holons) and Holarchy in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. An Infinite Mind/Consciousness, separates itself into infinite perspectives/Holons/beings that are aware of each other (Indras Net), and play hide & seek & grow back home, in all realms and dimensions possible.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Pure uncoloured/unfiltered Impersonal Awareness realizes itself and Reality in a truly nondual way. Not just merging/unity with it and later separating again into something separate, but truly becoming it.

This is freedom imo. The matter is not so complicated when you see it, but an impossible labyrinth when you don't see it. the labyrinth of the self. The problem, the barrier, the trap is the self, and everything that it implies. Being an infinite and impersonal extension that is life, existence, is not the same as a self. The self is always limited. that: you are god imagining reality because you love yourself. It's one limitation after another. The problem is that the mind will always take you to that and escape from the limitless reality, because the mind cannot grasp the limitless. Then you think, this experience exists, therefore it is being created, it is the effect of a cause: God. and god must be uncaused. So what is God? Let's see, what's left? I. I am God, I am the cause, the one who imagines reality.

The self, which is a fiction created by the appearance of limitation, that feeling of "I am" that exists in every human, instead of doing the difficult thing, moving away, does the easy thing: enlarging itself to the god level. wrong exit from the maze, marked with a radioactive skull on the map

[Water by the River]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The self, which is a fiction created by the appearance of limitation, that feeling of "I am" that exists in every human, instead of doing the difficult thing, moving away, does the easy thing: enlarging itself to the god level. wrong exit from the maze, marked with a radioactive skull on the map

Yes. Becoming the infinite boundless Bubble is the first step (Godself). Its like extending the Ego (although very empty/murky at this point already) to infinity. Already nondual and quite awakened, but not truly IT, since its not impersonal and truly Pure Empty Infinite Consciousness. And that is why its not stable. Separate Self/Ego still clouding the True Impersonal Pure Being/Reality.

Ripening in that state over a long time (hundreds of hours normally), then sudden Enlightenment/waking up can happen. Truly becoming the Infinite, True No Self = Infinite. And that infinite Reality always already WAS behind everything. Deep Identity Level Shift. Accessible later on sobre.

Taking the wrong exit with the radioactive skull: Blowing up the God-Ego even more.... End of progress.

Roger Thisdell has to excellent videos on that:

 

One step more in the right direction:

And game over:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Water by the River

[vibv]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

All of these facet-Understandings of God/Reality/Elephant can be generated after Enlightenment easily. Just a view Koans more, if its not already clear with Enlightenment. It is just what one is.

You've got a lot of things right. But there's one huge misconception/misunderstanding: You don't understand the elephant by "becoming" it (or let's say realizing that you already are it).

You are your body right now. but you don't understand it. Hence there's science and research about understanding the body. It's exciting, fascinating, advances us as a species and so on and so forth.

It's the same thing with IT/WE. As soon as you realize you are it, exploring it doesn't stop but in fact becomes a lot deeper!

Reality is completely impersonal but at the same deeply personal. Both facets are equally true and you can't discard one for the other.

It's like a tree that has to grow deep roots into the soil, but only to be able to expand high into the sky. The roots respresent the impersonal, the connection to the Unchanging. It's really important to establish that because it enables you to go into much deeper experiences/insights/awakenings without losing yourself in them so to speak.

But don't forget that your nature is bilateral.

Edit: You could also say it is triune: Impersonal Reality - God - Creation

Edited October 6, 2023 by vibv

[Water by the River]

8 minutes ago, vibv said:

You've got a lot of things right. But there's one huge misconception/misunderstanding: You don't understand the elephant by "becoming" it (or let's say realizing that you already are it).

In Enlightenment, you literally become the Elephant. And understand it by being it. That is how Reality was realized by hundreds across the ages, all said more or less the same.

Vibv, we can stop the discussion at that point, because it will not progress, and it that will not make sense to you until you have that realization or at least an openness. Actually, with your views you are cutting yourself off from that realization to a high degree, because you think you already have it and know it. The video with the overflowing cup.

I know you don't like that, because some had Enlightenment/Realization and some didn't. But that doesn't change the truth of it. At each beings core is exactly THAT, and that makes it egalitarian. A potential than can be realized by all beings. 

18 minutes ago, vibv said:

Reality is completely impersonal but at the same deeply personal. Both facets are equally true and you can't discard one for the other.

Both facets are not equally true. The personal aspect is illusion/ignorance. The Impersonal Pure Consciousness is more fundamental (or eternal) than the passing or temporary personal consciousness that arises in It. The Oceans and the waves are not different, but the ocean is the Reality OF the wave. And fundamentally more true and permanent than the wave.

No talking or lamenting or arguing will change that.

[vibv]

23 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

we can stop the discussion at that point, because it will not progress, and it that will not make sense to you until you have that realization or at least an openness.

That's based on reciprocity.

Quote

No talking or lamenting or arguing will change that.

Okay. We will see.

I'm not attacking you, but apparently you perceive it differently. I'm completely open to things I don't know, but I will also passionately vocalize my truth.

I don't call myself enlightened and I don't claim to be in possession of the truth. That can't exactly be said about your standpoint.

Though I will fiercely oppose stagnation, self-righteousness and sanctimoniousness when I see it. Those are the true enemies of humankind.

Edited October 6, 2023 by vibv

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Or do you prefer to continue with children's games? do you get anything from them? appear as something important in your eyes? That's all lies and that is a pretty horrible prison. get out of jail man, you can

Have you ever played Monopoly? Staying in jail can actually be beneficial depending on the context of the board.

I should play a game of Monopoly in Finland.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Yimpa

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And that is why its not stable.

It can be stable? example osaid says that once you become enlightened it is forever. I don't see it that way, having a moment of no self is extremely difficult for me. I have to force it with meditation and intention since the inertia of the mind creates what I call the self, which is like a bubble, or a sensation of center. There is a receiving center of experience and that is me. to drop the self is to eliminate the center. existence remains but there is no reference point, and there is no need for control. At this point the past/future temporal sequence is eliminated and the interpretation of the moment ceases, the mind is emptied of content and only the now remains, which has no limit and here the true nature of reality is manifested. but there is a problem, it is very difficult to contain the mind that is going to try to interpret this, and in doing so, you return again to the bubble of mental flow that creates the appearance of a receiving center of experience. Once you have managed to open the now completely, you can do it again, but in my case the mind immediately tries to capture the scene, understand what this is using the concepts of infinity, creation, cause/effect, etc. The flat mind, beyond a few minutes, generates enormous pressure towards habitual functioning, the inertia of a lifetime. Each opening makes future openings easier, and in normal experience there is a transparency, the infinite is just below the experience, but my ambitious nature tells me: dive to the deepest, dissolve completely using whatever medium, drugs , meditation, etc. Not to understand what is this, but to see. But who wants to see? The self, right? It's very easy to enter in wrong paths 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

Though I will fiercely oppose stagnation, 

You could see that sellinwaterintheriver does not advocate stagnation, but real openness as a starting point for spiritual exploration. first, what they call enlightenment, the opening of the self, then if one wants, exploration of reality. In fact, it proposes readings from people who have carried out very serious psychedelic exploration for 20 years, esoteric topics, etc. but what happens is that in this forum what people like is fast food spirituality. which says: all those guys who have dedicated their lives in extremely harsh conditions, for 8000 years, to the human openness towards the infinity of existence, were clowns and cheap saints. The thing is much simpler: you are God imagining reality for love. do you understand it? easy right? good! You are already more awakened than Buddha, Ramakrishna and Maharshi together, and without leaving home!

[vibv]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Buddha, Ramakrishna and Maharshi

They did extremely important groundwork for the spiritual evolution of humankind.