Am I forgetting that I was conscious during sleep?

[An young being]

Consciousness is said to be fundamental. And yet, we wake up after sleep with no memory of being aware during sleep. Could it be the case that we were indeed aware during sleep, but our memory is not switched on during sleep to record or recall our experience?

[Hojo]

It takes practice i cant do it but I've heard you can do it. 

The problem is identity i think. When you dissapear you literally dissapear if you identify with the body.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Hojo

[Osaid]

Memory is not awareness. How are you perceiving this "unawareness" you speak of?

Edited August 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Princess Arabia]

 

[An young being]

9 hours ago, Osaid said:

Memory is not awareness. How are you perceiving this "unawareness" you speak of?

I perceive it because there is no memory of me being aware during deep sleep. That's the only way I can guess if I was aware during deep sleep or not. How else do you suggest I can find out if I am aware or not during deep sleep?

7 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

@Princess Arabia while this has some good ideas, this doesn't entirely explain if I am aware or not during deep sleep. I am aware that I slept and it felt good, but not during the sleep, but only after completing it. The peaceful feeling could very well be the result of my chaotic memories being aligned during sleep.

[Osaid]

21 minutes ago, An young being said:

That's the only way I can guess if I was aware during deep sleep or not. How else do you suggest I can find out if I am aware or not during deep sleep?

No matter what happens, you will always have to perceive the "unawareness" through awareness, or else "unawareness" doesn't exist, and so you always perceive it through some sort of memory, no matter what. You can't escape awareness. You can see that this "unawareness" is always entangled in awareness, somehow.

Existentially, this unawareness is not actually some existential and metaphysical unawareness, that is impossible. Rather, it is a change in memory, time, physical function, etc, so it has all to do with awareness and things that you are aware of. You are perceiving drastic differences in experience, which make you infer a gap in experience, but this gap is only inferred through the differences that you are absolutely aware of, and not unaware of. This bundle of experience is what the average human calls "unawareness" or "unconsciousness", but truly it is neither of those things existentially or metaphysically, it is just an experience of you inferring unawareness, but never unawareness being experienced (this is a paradox and can never happen).

Edited August 28, 2023 by Osaid

[Leo Gura]

No. It's more mindfucky than that.

You're forgetting that sleep is imaginary

Consciousness does not go anywhere during sleep. Consciousness dreams sleeps.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It's more mindfucky than that.

You're forgetting that sleep is imaginary

Consciousness does not go anywhere during sleep. Consciousness dreams sleeps.

@An young beingThere's never unconsciousness.  But you may forget what you dreamt.   It is very illusory.   It will make you think you slept unconscious.   But you were conscious throughout.   Forgetting is the miracle that God can do.  Leo should make a video just on forgetting.  It is a savior.   But also it is a nightmare.   Depends on how you wish to look at it.  Or you can just forget.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Inliytened1

[An young being]

Ok, I will be open here. I don't want to understand the nature of awareness,atleast for now, because it's too complex for me to understand. The main point I want to make here is that, many people argue that awareness is not fundamental because there is no awareness during sleep and something called unawareness exists, even though it is inside awareness. This is because awareness comes back after deep sleep. 

My question is, is there any research that supports that memory is inactive during deep sleep and doesn't record awareness? If that's the case, nobody can claim that we are not aware during deep sleep. I believe that memory is exclusive to brain and ceases to exist once our brain is dead, but awareness is fundamental. 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, An young being said:

Ok, I will be open here. I don't want to understand the nature of awareness,atleast for now, because it's too complex for me to understand. The main point I want to make here is that, many people argue that awareness is not fundamental because there is no awareness during sleep and something called unawareness exists, even though it is inside awareness. This is because awareness comes back after deep sleep. 

My question is, is there any research that supports that memory is inactive during deep sleep and doesn't record awareness? If that's the case, nobody can claim that we are not aware during deep sleep. I believe that memory is exclusive to brain and ceases to exist once our brain is dead, but awareness is fundamental. 

You are appealing to science but notice- science might just be within consciousness.  So if we are asking questions of unconsciousness- perhaps we may not want to appeal to science. 

[ZenSwift]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It's more mindfucky than that.

You're forgetting that sleep is imaginary

Consciousness does not go anywhere during sleep. Consciousness dreams sleeps.

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that consciousness dreams everything that isn't the exact present moment right the fuck now? Where consciousness imagines the past to ground the present moment in an envelope of contexts so the human experience feels real because you're not aware that without that you will realize how fucking insane it is that anything exists at all? 

(But consciousness is also generating the "physical" manifestation of this present moment.) 

 

Correct me if I do not understand it precisely correctly. 

[ZenSwift]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@An young beingThere's never unconsciousness.  But you may forget what you dreamt.   It is very illusory.   It will make you think you slept unconscious.   But you were conscious throughout.   Forgetting is the miracle that God can do.  Leo should make a video just on forgetting.  It is a savior.   But also it is a nightmare.   Depends on how you wish to look at it.  Or you can just forget.

Forgetting and not being conscious is something that you are imagining!? You mean these breaks in Consciousness is just a constantly aware being making experiences of "forgetting" and coming out of a state of "not being aware". 

 

Definetly DEFINETLY excited to groc that insight, holy shit. 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

Forgetting and not being conscious is something that you are imagining!? You mean these breaks in Consciousness is just a constantly aware being making experiences of "forgetting" and coming out of a state of "not being aware". 

 

Definetly DEFINETLY excited to groc that insight, holy shit. 

It's precisely that there AREN'T breaks in consciousness.   There is just the illusion that there is.  Like sleep.  Or unconsciousness.    forgetting- now that is a completely separate topic.  Forgetting only exists because nothing ever existed to begin with.  This will absolutely demolish you if you are not ready.  This doesn't mean something exists outside of your direct experience.   This means that if you stop thinking about it, it absolutely ceases to exist.  So take this to the "external world" now....the external world.  That's where forgetting REALLY gets scary.  But that's also where it gets extremely powerful. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, An young being said:

My question is, is there any research that supports that memory is inactive during deep sleep and doesn't record awareness? If that's the case, nobody can claim that we are not aware during deep sleep. I believe that memory is exclusive to brain and ceases to exist once our brain is dead, but awareness is fundamental. 

The illusion of reality that Consciousness dreams up is too profound to be "recorded by science".

It's not a matter of memory being inactive during sleep, it's that you're not understanding that the notion of sleep itself is imaginary. You're assuming that sleep is real.

16 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that consciousness dreams everything that isn't the exact present moment right the fuck now? Where consciousness imagines the past to ground the present moment in an envelope of contexts so the human experience feels real because you're not aware that without that you will realize how fucking insane it is that anything exists at all?

Precisely.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

33 minutes ago, An young being said:

I don't want to understand the nature of awareness,atleast for now, because it's too complex for me to understand.

But you made an entire thread inquiring about it. And then continued an argument after you said this. ?

[An young being]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are appealing to science but notice- science might just be within consciousness.  So if we are asking questions of unconsciousness- perhaps we may not want to appeal to science. 

I understand what you meant, but using science to justify Spiritual concepts might help it to reach wider audience.

 

2 hours ago, ZenSwift said:

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that consciousness dreams everything that isn't the exact present moment right the fuck now? Where consciousness imagines the past to ground the present moment in an envelope of contexts so the human experience feels real because you're not aware that without that you will realize how fucking insane it is that anything exists at all? 

(But consciousness is also generating the "physical" manifestation of this present moment.) 

 

Correct me if I do not understand it precisely correctly. 

I understand your enthusiasm, but as even Leo says, there are many levels of enlightenment. We have many posts to discuss that, so let's not go to the farthest end and try to explain it in simpler terms. 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The illusion of reality that Consciousness dreams up is too profound to be "recorded by science".

It's not a matter of memory being inactive during sleep, it's that you're not understanding that the notion of sleep itself is imaginary. You're assuming that sleep is real.

If you tell someone not interested in Spirituality or Enlightenment that sleep is not real, very few people will believe it, even if it's true. On the other hand, if we prove something using science, people will readily accept it. My goal here in this post is not to understand reality at it's deepest or rawest form, but trying to use science to justify a spiritual concept that is widely acknowledged, which is awareness is fundamental.

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

But you made an entire thread inquiring about it. And then continued an argument after you said this. ?

I meant not to dwelve further than what I already know, and to verify what I already know using science, so that more people become interested in it.

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

3 hours ago, An young being said:

My goal here in this post is not to understand reality at it's deepest or rawest form, but trying to use science to justify a spiritual concept that is widely acknowledged, which is awareness is fundamental.

That's the issue. You're trying to deliver justifications for concepts, but the idea of justification is yet another concept. You're trying to point towards concepts with concepts. What people are talking about when they talk about "consciousness" and "awareness" isn't a concept. Even saying that it isn't a concept is yet another concept. That's how mind bending it gets. You can't get there through concepts, which is another concepts. See how tricky it gets? You're trying to explain something that isn't a concept, using nothing but concepts, to people who know nothing outside of their conceptual understanding of reality. Science is only meant to add to this conceptual frame work of reality, but will ultimative always remain ignorant in the face of that which can't be conceptualized. Even spiritual circles end up having the same problem. Too much conceptualization.

The only solution is to become more conscious. So if you want to share this understanding in a scientific manor, the only way to do that is to become more conscious and to start developing a deep understanding of the field of science. Nobody can help you do that other than yourself.

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, An young being said:

Ok, I will be open here. I don't want to understand the nature of awareness,atleast for now, because it's too complex for me to understand. The main point I want to make here is that, many people argue that awareness is not fundamental because there is no awareness during sleep and something called unawareness exists, even though it is inside awareness. This is because awareness comes back after deep sleep. 

My question is, is there any research that supports that memory is inactive during deep sleep and doesn't record awareness? If that's the case, nobody can claim that we are not aware during deep sleep. I believe that memory is exclusive to brain and ceases to exist once our brain is dead, but awareness is fundamental. 

This isn't even that complicated I answered it in the past. If you were ever unaware, you couldn't be aware that you were unaware. You have to be aware to be aware that you weren't aware.

Thus proving you are always aware and that death is impossible. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Razard86

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, An young being said:

If you tell someone not interested in Spirituality or Enlightenment that sleep is not real, very few people will believe it, even if it's true. On the other hand, if we prove something using science, people will readily accept it. My goal here in this post is not to understand reality at it's deepest or rawest form, but trying to use science to justify a spiritual concept that is widely acknowledged, which is awareness is fundamental.

It's not possible to understand such a deep issue by still appealing to science.

This thread deals with an extremely deep illusion, requiring a radical way of thinking to resolve.

[Bobby_2021]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It's more mindfucky than that.

You're forgetting that sleep is imaginary

Consciousness does not go anywhere during sleep. Consciousness dreams sleeps.

The key is to get that "forgetting".

That always messes things up. So I am wondering, Am I awake when I sleep ?