Is it Possible to Awaken to Anything?

[integral]

In this situation one would be having "false" awakenings.

So one could potentially have a incomplete awakening to Panpsychism for example or Epistemological Solipsism. 

Leos video titled The Many Facets Of Awakening - List of Top 30 Enlightenment Insights covers 30 different types and each person can interpret each experience differently based on there stage of development.

How do we know what is a real vs false awakening? How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? 

Edited August 15, 2023 by integral

[Ajax]

55 minutes ago, integral said:

In this situation one would be having "false" awakenings.

So one could potentially have a incomplete awakening to Panpsychism for example or Epistemological Solipsism. 

Leos video titled The Many Facets Of Awakening - List of Top 30 Enlightenment Insights covers 30 different types and each person can interpret each experience differently based on there stage of development.

How do we know what is a real vs false awakening? How do we decern one from another. How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? 

 

 

Source has no change. If you try to change it, it becomes a lie. Any change from source is a lie. Truth is an absence of change. 

Think of a dream, it is always changing. It is a lie. Something that doesn't change cannot continue. Even subatomic particles are changing locations.  Nothing is static except source. This means even consciousness, which is not static is a lie. Source simply knows. For something to continue, it has to contain a change. 

The dream is the continuation. The change is what is keeping the "dream" alive. It is the continuation. 

From that point of view. All awakening is "false" because it isn't the Ultimate Truth. 

However, all awakenings have Truth.  Notice the difference. "HAVE Truth" and Truth. Truth does have anything. It simply IS. 

Consciousness could be said to be a measurement of how much Truth the viewpoint contains. You could also call consciousness a viewing. Viewpoints are simply points of comparison. This can be known by degree of consciousness.  How much you understand, how many insights you have, the quality you know. It can be measured in Magnitude of purity, simplicity and beauty. The more infinite and intense those three characteristics are, the closer you are to Truth. Understanding and Reflectiveness is also measurable but harder to identify as the purely simple and beautiful understanding of what you are viewing. Consciousness could also be a measurement of how close you are from the infinite. 

The closer you are, the more you simply Know. There is no change, you Know. 

"How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? "

It isn't valid because if you don't know, you simply don't know. The closer your consciousness is to the Ultimate, the more you know.  If it was valid, you would know. If it was valid, you would know it as the Infinite along with everything else.  There is no separation from invalid or valid except in your mind. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ajax

[cetus]

50 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Source has no change. If you try to change it, it becomes a lie. Any change from source is a lie. Truth is an absence of change. 

That which changes is not real. What is real does not change. -Nisargadatta

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, cetus said:

That which changes is not real. What is real does not change. -Nisargadatta

That which changes is real, it is just temporarily real. Why? Because change and lack of change are ONE. All logic is limitation and limitation is the only thing that isn't real. Change is not limitation it is the lack thereof, therefore change is real. The only aspect of Reality that is changeless is that it always exists...even when it isn't aware of its own existence. 

A temporary truth is a truth while it IS, it only becomes a lie when it know longer is. To call a change lie, is to call your entire life as a human a lie. This is false. The building block of reality is ITSELF, Reality is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Therefore no matter how reality presents itself it is always true. The ONLY lie, is the belief that there are lies. Because all lies are expressions of truth. Within all lies contains truth, because the only thing that exists is truth. 

A lie is just a partiality of truth, but because the truth is TOTAL, its TOTALITY envelopes the lie and makes it true. This is why every perspective no matter how distorted has an element of truth to it. It is the belief that their is a difference between lies and truth that creates separation. Only the mind sees separation

6 hours ago, Ajax said:

 

 

Source has no change. If you try to change it, it becomes a lie. Any change from source is a lie. Truth is an absence of change. 

Think of a dream, it is always changing. It is a lie. Something that doesn't change cannot continue. Even subatomic particles are changing locations.  Nothing is static except source. This means even consciousness, which is not static is a lie. Source simply knows. For something to continue, it has to contain a change. 

The dream is the continuation. The change is what is keeping the "dream" alive. It is the continuation. 

From that point of view. All awakening is "false" because it isn't the Ultimate Truth. 

However, all awakenings have Truth.  Notice the difference. "HAVE Truth" and Truth. Truth does have anything. It simply IS. 

Consciousness could be said to be a measurement of how much Truth the viewpoint contains. You could also call consciousness a viewing. Viewpoints are simply points of comparison. This can be known by degree of consciousness.  How much you understand, how many insights you have, the quality you know. It can be measured in Magnitude of purity, simplicity and beauty. The more infinite and intense those three characteristics are, the closer you are to Truth. Understanding and Reflectiveness is also measurable but harder to identify as the purely simple and beautiful understanding of what you are viewing. Consciousness could also be a measurement of how close you are from the infinite. 

The closer you are, the more you simply Know. There is no change, you Know. 

"How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? "

It isn't valid because if you don't know, you simply don't know. The closer your consciousness is to the Ultimate, the more you know.  If it was valid, you would know. If it was valid, you would know it as the Infinite along with everything else.  There is no separation from invalid or valid except in your mind. 

, the HEART sees the ultimate TRUTH that there is ONLY TRUTH. Each awakening is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, all that is happening is you are becoming AWARE of the nature of these facets. An awakening to Infinite Marbles is just an awakening to INFINITY so it would be valid. Your mind is trying to search for the lack of validation. What your mind doesn't realize is it is within TRUTH trying to search for TRUTH. Your mind doesn't realize it IS what it IS searching for.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Razard86

[Javfly33]

8 hours ago, integral said:

In this situation one would be having "false" awakenings.

So one could potentially have a incomplete awakening to Panpsychism for example or Epistemological Solipsism. 

Leos video titled The Many Facets Of Awakening - List of Top 30 Enlightenment Insights covers 30 different types and each person can interpret each experience differently based on there stage of development.

How do we know what is a real vs false awakening? How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? 

What does it even mean to "awaken"? You guys just pick up leo vocabulary without inspecting. This is laughable ., No offense.

[Bazooka Jesus]

7 hours ago, cetus said:

That which changes is not real. What is real does not change. -Nisargadatta

The world is illusory. Only Brahman is real. The world is Brahman.

- Ramana Maharshi -

[Breakingthewall]

awakening is something that happens, not something you become aware of. it is a fundamental difference. in the awakening, the you that searches, that analyzes, that plans, stops, and reality manifests itself. the limits dissolve and existence is. You cannot look for it because the fact of looking is a limit, you can carry out actions and have attitudes that promote this event. You keep hitting the wall every day until one day the ice breaks, you change frequency, you go from software to hardware. After , all that talking about solipsism, reincarnation, etc., they are conceptualizations that you create when you re-install yourself in the software and analyze. you cannot tell if they are false, only that they belong to the realm of the conceptual mind. what you want is not to know things with your conceptual mind, it is to pause the mind and be without limits for a while each day. then, if you are smart, I think you will stop trying to know when you are in the conceptual mind and just enjoy life, since trying to know is greed, or as sellingwaterriver would say, contraction.

there is only one thing to know: what you are and being unlimited reality tells you everything you need to know because it tells you what you are. That's it, you already know everything, the rest is irrelevant. reincarnation or solipsism has the same importance as the next apartment you are going to live in. relative importance. Belongs to the realm of the mundane. Could be interesting to know those things, same it's interesting to know about politics. But that's not spirituality. Spirituality is just become limitless.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Selfnaught]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Change is not limitation it is the lack thereof, therefore change is real.

I often read what you write when I see you post in threads or create your own. They are usually above me at this point. This resonates with me, however, and has me contemplating about it. Never thought about it like that.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Selfnaught

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Change is not limitation it is the lack thereof, therefore change is real.

Yes, but if the infinite includes infinite changes, the result is that it is immutable, since there is nothing you can add or take away from it, it is always everything.

[Kksd74628]

@integral

Awakening is an experiential insight. Therefore if you saw new aspect of reality or deepened some old one, you could call it an awakening. The whole game of having awakenings, intellectual insights or learning something new in general is only for you. You decide what counts as awakening for you and what doesn't. If you didn't already see, I'll tell you that everything that spirituality is, is personal introspection to the core of you and the experience occuring. It is 100% internal game and you gotta navigate in it by yourself and make the rules, not ask them from others.

-joNi-

[cetus]

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

To call a change lie, is to call your entire life as a human a lie. This is false. The building block of reality is ITSELF, Reality is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Therefore no matter how reality presents itself it is always true.

There are levels of consciousness where reality no longer exists, yet something still remains. Something that is changeless. It is your 'pristine' state. This is where Absolute Truth resides. Reality (change/experience) depends upon it. But it is not dependent on reality.

[Ajax]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

the HEART sees the ultimate TRUTH that there is ONLY TRUTH. Each awakening is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, all that is happening is you are becoming AWARE of the nature of these facets. An awakening to Infinite Marbles is just an awakening to INFINITY so it would be valid. Your mind is trying to search for the lack of validation. What your mind doesn't realize is it is within TRUTH trying to search for TRUTH. Your mind doesn't realize it IS what it IS searching for.

 Hmm, it looks like we have to clear away some meanings here. The first step in understanding something is accurately identifying what it is. So, what is the definition of HEART? What is the definition of TRUTH and what is the definition of ONLY TRUTH?

Sounds like we have a different definition of ABSOLUTE TRUTH.  After all, to me, when something is absolute you are not becoming aware… You are aware and nothing but aware.

That is not to say these awakenings are not valuable. They are probably the most valuable thing in the universe for you at that time… until more awakenings arrive.

I think we are in agreement. I actually said “If it was valid, you would know it as the Infinite along with everything else. “

Your reality is what is true for you… what you see in something. (Of course it’s limited It is not Truth). Truth is KNOWING pure and simple. KNOWING doesn’t change. Your View changes constantly.

If you have to ask “how do you know?”, according to your reality, the way you are viewing it, it is not valid because it is not pure unchangeable KNOWING.

If you have significant shifts, and know it is true, then it is valid. The only thing that changed is your viewpoint. Not the” infinite marbles”.

What is your definition of mind?

 

12 minutes ago, cetus said:

There are levels of consciousness where reality no longer exists, yet something still remains. Something that is changeless. It is your 'pristine' state. This is where Absolute Truth resides. Reality (change/experience) depends upon it. But it is not dependent on reality.

 

@Sidra khan Razard86 is a really awesome and beautiful person! I really respect his confidence and personality. He is well developed and is an extraordinary person. I know you have had conflicts with him in the past, but there is so much more to him than what you are currently seeing. 

You are super awesome, too. Thank you for your compliments of me! 

[integral]

@Sidra khan How I relate to Razard is that we both have the same INTJ personality type so I feel the inner drive of passion and enthusiasm coming from his communication style. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by integral

[Inliytened1]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:57 PM, integral said:

 

How do we know what is a real vs false awakening? How do we know an awakening to Infinite Marbles isnt valid? 

This is solipsism at its core.  You will not be able to explain awakening.   It is you that awakens.  Everyone else is a dream.   So you cannot explain it when it happens because it is only something that you alone can experience as God.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is solipsism at its core.  You will not be able to explain awakening.   It is you that awakens.  Everyone else is a dream.   So you cannot explain it when it happens because it is only something that you alone can experience as God.

Awakening is realizing your true nature. All about the others are just mental histories

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Awakening is realizing your true nature. All about the others are just mental histories

Can you explain Being itself?  No..

Ask yourself why not.

Because you ARE it.   

Other" is second order, or in other words Being is prior to - so who would be there to explain it when it is prior to anyone being there.   That's what I meant by its solipsism at its core.  

Edited August 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Can you explain Being itself?  No..

Ask yourself why not.

Because you ARE it.   

Other" is second order, or in other words Being is prior to - so who would be there to explain it when it is prior to anyone being there.   That's what I meant by its solipsism at its core.  

Yes, but it seems that solipsism is opposed to multiple, when there is nothing of that in realizing infinity. If you think: of course, there is only one, it is already a human mental construction that you are superimposing on the infinity. infinity is unlimited and you are that, that it's not the same than "it is you" not you, that, subtle difference, and the only way to realize it is by dissolving the limits, and I would say that "one" is a limit

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, but it seems that solipsism is opposed to multiple, when there is nothing of that in realizing infinity. If you think: of course, there is only one, it is already a human mental construction that you are superimposing on the infinity. infinity is unlimited and you are that, that it's not the same than "it is you" not you, that, subtle difference, and the only way to realize it is by dissolving the limits, and I would say that "one" is a limit

Well yes, of course - but then you can say that about calling infinity Infinity.   In other words all language can't explain awakening.   Even the word awakening or Infinity is already entering into duality.   

I guess to answer his question- when you become the Absolute- it is Absolute.   There is no room for falsehood because falsehood can only come AFTER the Absolute divides itself.   And so, in becoming Absolute- you ARE it. And that's it.  Any discussion of what is valid or not valid is the parts which break away from the Absolute.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

20 hours ago, cetus said:

There are levels of consciousness where reality no longer exists, yet something still remains. Something that is changeless. It is your 'pristine' state. This is where Absolute Truth resides. Reality (change/experience) depends upon it. But it is not dependent on reality.

The form and the formless are the same. Do this exercise. Close your eyes. You see any form? Nope. Open them, you see form. What's the difference? There is none. Now try this exercise...remember a time you passed out completely and BLANKED out of existence. What's the difference between that and those 3? NOTHING. Why? Because change only exists because everything is nothing. What is change? A CONCEPT. 

Nothing cannot be divided, but if you create a division in your MIND, which you awaken to it being UNIVERSAL then you can tell yourself something changed. In truth...nothing ever changes. Change can only exist as a concept and wouldn't be possible if everything wasn't ultimately ONE. Why? Because if everything was actually separate nothing could change, it would freeze. 

Because reality is an appearance, it can be temporary, but that appearance is just a configuration of that which doesn't change. Therefore....its REAL. Why it is real? Because ABSOLUTE TRUTH says its real. Only the finite relative aspect of ABSOLUTE TRUTH goes around calling something not real. Because the finite makes distinctions. But ABSOLUTE TRUTH sees no difference whether it is form or formless.

[Razard86]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well yes, of course - but then you can say that about calling infinity Infinity.   In other words all language can't explain awakening.   Even the word awakening or Infinity is already entering into duality.   

I guess to answer his question- when you become the Absolute- it is Absolute.   There is no room for falsehood because falsehood can only come AFTER the Absolute divides itself.   And so, in becoming Absolute- you ARE it. And that's it.  Any discussion of what is valid or not valid is the parts which break away from the Absolute.

Spirituality by its very nature is paradoxical. You resolve all paradoxes by just accepting that everything is ONE. The only reason people are not soberly experiencing a state of ONENESS is due to psychological denial. In the words of Leo "You are behind a wall of denial.....and you need to construct stories"