KatiesKarma

Someone please talk Christianity out of me.

290 posts in this topic

35 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

religion is hierarchy; while spirituality assets i am my own authority

spirituality however has to begin with religion since when you are young you have to take things on faith

then if so inclined you have to find someone to trust

if you just believe them that is religion; if you realize for yourself this is spirituality

because religion is hierarchy it is about groups, one is the leader one is the follower

spirituality on the other hand is about the individual and as explained is the outgrowing of religion

Is it just a coincidence that this perfectly lines up with your more general worldview given to you by your culture?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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21 hours ago, Razard86 said:

If Pain and suffering didn't exist, there would be a difference. Without Pain....you have nothing to ground you in what we call real. For example....the phrase "Shit just got real" is used when PAIN enters the building. Notice Leo's apology followed his own personal pain, same with me being humbled. 

Suffering/Pain= Is one of the strongest attachments, and grounding mechanisms in Reality. Without it....it wouldn't be real.

This I understand and makes so much sense. When certain parts of the body aches, that's when you notice it and your focus turns towards it. Other than just normal day-to-day maintenance of the body when you're going through the motions and just mechanically doing what's normal, we don't really notice it until we're going through some kind of pain in a particular part. So, when I compare that to Reality or humans, most are just going through the motions; and it's not until some form of emotional suffering is being experienced, that it stops you in your tracks and makes you ponder and think and bring you back home/within, not without. 

Without suffering and pain we'd be more lost and just floating in air, so-to-speak. Eckhart Tolle was about to jump, literally, when he awoken, even though that extremity isn't required. When you cut your finger and it bleeds, you're not going to cut it some more to try to heal it, you start the healing process by doing whatever means necessary. Some may apply the wrong kind of "bandage", which is what most of society is doing, some may use the right kind and some may apply nothing at all. Our work is to figure out the right kind and apply it, whatever that is for you and can come in many different formats. I think true healing comes when we recognize that we were never broken to begin with and all we need to do is take off the fake "bandages" and just breathe and let the Universe guide us just as the body knows how to heal itself given the proper conditions. 

Religion and Spirituality serves it's purpose, but when used as a bandage to try to heal a wound that is not even there, that's when it becomes suffocating; and, now, we try to invent ways, means and processes to uncover that bandage that was never needed in the first place and the cycle never ends. That's the loop. Coming from a place of knowing, already fulfilled and needing nothing but only to experience that part of Infinity we choose in any given moment is the true challenge that most are not ready/able to overcome or are blinded to recognize our true purpose here as God/Infinity. 

This is what my inner guidance has revealed to me, if it's not so, then I know nothing.


Thought = Time. Without thought there's no time. Death is the end of the illusion.

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8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is it just a coincidence that this perfectly lines up with your more general worldview given to you by your culture?

i don't understand," your more general worldview given to you by your culture"

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33 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

i don't understand," your more general worldview given to you by your culture"

Because this idea of carving your own path and all of it being about the individual doesn't just apply to your conception of spirituality. It applies to your conception of self-development, of fair government, of ethics, etc. Is that truly what spirituality is at its essence, universally across all cultures? I doubt that. You can just as readily if not more realize the truth of non-duality in a well-established community while following a certain tradition of rituals and practices. In fact, that is partially why you're here.

Everybody wants to talk about deconstructing science but not deconstructing spirituality and religion ?

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can just as readily if not more realize the truth of non-duality in a well-established community while following a certain tradition of rituals and practices. In fact, that is partially why you're here.

Of course you will realize „the truth of non-duality“ more easily in a social system that was designed to do just that.

But who says you should value „the truth of non-duality“ over say „the truth of plurality?“

The only reason you value „the truth of non-duality,“ is because you’re already living it to some extend. And the only reason you’re living it, is because you grew up in a social system that has been profoundly shaped by Christian and Hegelian ideals.

So there is nothing truly „universal“ about this kind of spirituality, other than the fact that we live in an age that has been shaped by certain corresponding idea(l)s.

I would argue that true spirituality doesn’t start before you do not break out of this conditioning and evaluate everything from scratch (as do the high points of postmodernism).


“We are most nearly ourselves when we achieve the seriousness of the child at play.” - Heraclitus

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35 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because this idea of carving your own path and all of it being about the individual doesn't just apply to your conception of spirituality. It applies to your conception of self-development, of fair government, of ethics, etc. Is that truly what spirituality is at its essence, universally across all cultures? I doubt that. You can just as readily if not more realize the truth of non-duality in a well-established community while following a certain tradition of rituals and practices. In fact, that is partially why you're here.

Everybody wants to talk about deconstructing science but not deconstructing spirituality and religion ?

 is religion hierarchy? and is spirituality seeking the kingdom of heaven within which can only be done alone

i didn't get this from a book or from culture, this is me just teasing out the dualities as best i can

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6 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Of course you will realize „the truth of non-duality“ more easily in a social system that was designed to do just that.

But who says you should value „the truth of non-duality“ over say „the truth of plurality?“

The only reason you value „the truth of non-duality,“ is because you’re already living it to some extend. And the only reason you’re living it, is because you grew up in a social system that has been profoundly shaped by Christian and Hegelian ideals.

So there is nothing truly „universal“ about this kind of spirituality, other than the fact that we live in an age that has been shaped by certain corresponding idea(l)s.

I would argue that true spirituality doesn’t start before you do not break out of this conditioning and evaluate everything from scratch (as do the high points of postmodernism).

The only part I disagree with is the part you say because you're already living it....most on the forums are not living from a non-dual state of consciousness. They are living from what you stated at the "truth of plurality." They already feel like an individual consciousness within a world of many individual consciousness, they have yet to experience a natural state of ONE consciousness APPEARING to be MANY individual consciousness. 

The other issue is when they first break through because of how we speak about awakening on these forums they start to think that ONE consciousness means they are the only thing that exists as the human perspective/ego not realizing that is only true of the ABSOLUTE not the relative. 

Absolute=One. Truth of non-duality

Relative= Infinity. Truth of Plurality.


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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@Carl-Richard

non duality isn't a truth to be absorbed but a reality to be experienced

as such it cannot be done in a group but only one by one

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14 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The only part I disagree with is the part you say because you're already living it....most on the forums are not living from a non-dual state of consciousness. They are living from what you stated at the "truth of plurality." They already feel like an individual consciousness within a world of many individual consciousness, they have yet to experience a natural state of ONE consciousness APPEARING to be MANY individual consciousness. 

The other issue is when they first break through because of how we speak about awakening on these forums they start to think that ONE consciousness means they are the only thing that exists as the human perspective/ego not realizing that is only true of the ABSOLUTE not the relative. 

Absolute=One. Truth of non-duality

Relative= Infinity. Truth of Plurality.

They are living in a moral (and legal) framework that is still pretty much based upon a monotheistic God; the intrinsic sin and inappropriateness of anything lesser than this God; and the Hegelian redemption arc, of becoming increasingly aware of this injustice and sin and internalizing all of it (until you eventually reach some absolute unity and perfection).

You might think we live in an age predominantly influenced by secularism and pluralism, but that’s a way more shallow level of programming than the 2000 years of Christianity that have shaped the entire substrate of society, on which all this modern liberalism has been built.

Edited by Nilsi

“We are most nearly ourselves when we achieve the seriousness of the child at play.” - Heraclitus

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1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

This I understand and makes so much sense. When certain parts of the body aches, that's when you notice it and your focus turns towards it. Other than just normal day-to-day maintenance of the body when you're going through the motions and just mechanically doing what's normal, we don't really notice it until we're going through some kind of pain in a particular part. So, when I compare that to Reality or humans, most are just going through the motions; and it's not until some form of emotional suffering is being experienced, that it stops you in your tracks and makes you ponder and think and bring you back home/within, not without. 

Without suffering and pain we'd be more lost and just floating in air, so-to-speak. Eckhart Tolle was about to jump, literally, when he awoken, even though that extremity isn't required. When you cut your finger and it bleeds, you're not going to cut it some more to try to heal it, you start the healing process by doing whatever means necessary. Some may apply the wrong kind of "bandage", which is what most of society is doing, some may use the right kind and some may apply nothing at all. Our work is to figure out the right kind and apply it, whatever that is for you and can come in many different formats. I think true healing comes when we recognize that we were never broken to begin with and all we need to do is take off the fake "bandages" and just breathe and let the Universe guide us just as the body knows how to heal itself given the proper conditions. 

Religion and Spirituality serves it's purpose, but when used as a bandage to try to heal a wound that is not even there, that's when it becomes suffocating; and, now, we try to invent ways, means and processes to uncover that bandage that was never needed in the first place and the cycle never ends. That's the loop. Coming from a place of knowing, already fulfilled and needing nothing but only to experience that part of Infinity we choose in any given moment is the true challenge that most are not ready/able to overcome or are blinded to recognize our true purpose here as God/Infinity. 

This is what my inner guidance has revealed to me, if it's not so, then I know nothing.

It depends....the ego can be harmed until it accepts its connection with the Absolute. When it can fully accept its connection then it can be fully healed. So that cycle can end, until the ego is unified/integrated as an expression of the ABSOLUTE it will be stuck in karma.


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Of course you will realize „the truth of non-duality“ more easily in a social system that was designed to do just that.

But who says you should value „the truth of non-duality“ over say „the truth of plurality?“

The only reason you value „the truth of non-duality,“ is because you’re already living it to some extend. And the only reason you’re living it, is because you grew up in a social system that has been profoundly shaped by Christian and Hegelian ideals.

So there is nothing truly „universal“ about this kind of spirituality, other than the fact that we live in an age that has been shaped by certain corresponding idea(l)s.

I would argue that true spirituality doesn’t start before you do not break out of this conditioning and evaluate everything from scratch (as do the high points of postmodernism).

Well, we haven't finished the deconstruction yet. Like I've proposed before, mysticism (a.k.a. experiencing God or non-duality directly) is only one possible facet of spirituality. It was just easier for the sake of communication to keep that in the forefront, as that is what most of the "spiritual" people here care about. We have to peel back the layers in steps :P


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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20 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

@Carl-Richard

non duality isn't a truth to be absorbed but a reality to be experienced

as such it cannot be done in a group but only one by one

Yet here you are, talking about it, learning about it, sharing perspectives about it. Have you never watched a video about non-duality? Did you make that video?

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well, we haven't finished the deconstruction yet. Like I've proposed before, mysticism (a.k.a. experiencing God or non-duality directly) is only one possible facet of spirituality. It was just easier for the sake of communication to keep that in the forefront, as that is what most of the "spiritual" people here care about. We have to peel back the layers in steps :P

Good!

Although I prefer taking a hammer and putting that sucker down in one felt swoop.

Edited by Nilsi

“We are most nearly ourselves when we achieve the seriousness of the child at play.” - Heraclitus

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41 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yet here you are, talking about it, learning about it, sharing perspectives about it. Have you never watched a video about non-duality? Did you make that video?

the finger isn't the moon right?

i am here solely for fun, i do inner work each morning but here and youtube is just relaxation

for me its social more than spiritual

of course i share some insights and pick up a few nuggets but what matters is what i do alone

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7 hours ago, gettoefl said:

the finger isn't the moon right?

i am here solely for fun, i do inner work each morning but here and youtube is just relaxation

for me its social more than spiritual

of course i share some insights and pick up a few nuggets but what matters is what i do alone

When you've already gotten to where you are, it's easy to downplay it, but I'm also talking about how you got to this point. It was due to a huge composite of influences pointing you in this direction; so-called "beliefs", promises, useful tools and frameworks, which lead to a ton of new insights that shattered previous notions, values and identities.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Good!

Although I prefer taking a hammer and putting that sucker down in one felt swoop.

I could've done that, but when you concede to somebody's language game and work from the inside, you get closer to them, and things seem more familiar and easier to understand.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@KatiesKarma

 

Sry, I haven't read the whole thread but in your stead I would study christianity from a scholer point of view so you can see that it is a construct (which might feel scary at first).

For me it was helpful to see how religion developed and how things were added to it over the time. For this I highly recommend to watch the religion for breakfast youtube channel and let's talk religion. 

I wish you best luck. God loves you :)

 

https://youtube.com/@LetsTalkReligion

https://youtu.be/SRfFLjWLybA

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6 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Someone please talk Christianity out of me.?

Are you asking for a Exorcism?

 

 

Lol


Thought = Time. Without thought there's no time. Death is the end of the illusion.

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