Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Blackhawk]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of awakening. Lesser degrees are accessible via meditation and self-inquiry.

That sounds to me like you are just not using them properly, or you haven't found the right ones for you.

Which is what my course is designed to assist with.

I would never tell someone that awakening is impossible, you just gotta find a suitable method for you. Psychedelics are not suitable for all people. They will not work on some people for whatever genetic reasons. Then you can try meditation or yoga or something else.

Okay, thanks

[Jwayne]

58 minutes ago, Zion said:

Perhaps you're confusing material expression with embodiment & self-understanding, as not everyone outwardly expresses what they embody & understand within themself.

Understanding without embodiment is not understanding but merely verbal/intellectual. Understanding comes with material transformation as reflected in lived experience, presence, intellection, action, speech, personal qualities and so forth.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Understanding without embodiment is not understanding but merely verbal/intellectual.

No.

Understanding is more fundamental than embodiment. Embodiment is always secondary and derivative.

You cannot embody what you do not understand. And understanding does not necessitate embodiment. Pure Consciousness is distinct from embodiment. This is one of big mistakes of nondualist and Buddhist dogma. They emphasize embodiment more than pure understanding, which leads to self-deception. You have to understand what the fuck is going on first before you run off like a fool to embody it.

I swear, these Buddhists are fucking monkeys doing cartwheels. Step #1 is understanding that Buddhism and nonduality are imaginary.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jwayne]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

Understanding is more fundamental than embodiment. Embodiment is always secondary and derivative.

You cannot embody what you do not understand. And understanding does not necessitate embodiment. Pure Consciousness is distinct from embodiment. This is one of big mistakes of nondualist and Buddhist dogma. They emphasize embodiment more than pure understanding, which leads to self-deception. You have to understand what the fuck is going on first before you run off like a fool to embody it.

I swear, these Buddhists are fucking monkeys doing cartwheels.

Whatever you understand will be reflected in your action at some level. That's embodiment, it is learning. It cannot be otherwise unless we remove all significance from the word 'understanding.'

 

Obviously you cannot embody what you don't understand. That's pretention.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Whatever you understand will be reflected in your action at some level.

Not necessarily.

You can understand the whole universe and then go murder somebody. Does not change your understanding.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jwayne]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not necessarily.

You can understand the whole universe and then go murder somebody. Does not change your understanding.

That assumes not-murdering is a necessary outcome of understanding.

In that case, I would argue, your action to murder was necessarily informed by understanding. It is certainly not divorced from understanding, so to speak. Because whatever you understand is with you - inescapably - in your decision-making.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Leo Gura]

Changing your behavior is distinct from Consciousness/understanding.

By conflating these two things or placing behavior above it, you will get into all sorts of trouble. This is a classic trap.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

@Leo Gura So it's impossible for me to awaken since I don't tolerate psychedelics? (I can only get bad delusional trips on psychedelics).

13 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

There are two phases in the use of psychedelics. the first, which is hard trips, consists of revealing your subconscious and bringing it to the surface. Face your deepest fears. serious fears, since being human is trauma. this requires intelligence and courage. once your subconscious has merged with the conscious, the second phase begins, the mystic. This is serious hard work, not a magic pill for happiness.

[Jwayne]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Changing your behavior is distinct from Consciousness/understanding.

By conflating these two things or placing behavior above it, you will get into all sorts of trouble. This is a classic trap.

Changing your behavior can happen as a conscious intent to 'make a change' or can be a consequence of a transformation of substance (i.e. learning).

Consciously changing your behavior so as to appear as higher understanding to others and then to gloat with their approval, is, of course, a trap of self-delusion.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 

I get that you understand finite things.

I don't understand how you can comprehend infinity. There isn't anything to comprehend since it's everything.

You can dream about a demon riding a bicycle having an elf on his shoulder and there isn't anything to understand about it.

It's simply one configuration of the infinity of imagination/perception or you can even say it's infinity itself. 

Maybe it's a different type of comprehension. 

Damn I need to take psychedelics fast. 

Trust me on this...you can understand Infinity.   Only it must be AS infinity.   The finite cannot grasp the Infinite.   But the Infinite, IS itself, and thus can grasp itself. Not really something I can explain for the reason just stated. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jwayne]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Trust me on this...you can understand Infinity.   Only it must be AS infinity.   The finite cannot grasp the Infinite.   But the Infinite, IS itself, and thus can grasp itself. Not really something I can explain for the reason just stated. 

It's not good for anyone to "trust you". What you explained could just be parroted from something you've read or imagined. Your apparent confidence has no value for someone else, and actually could mislead them. This is the kind of pissing contest that happens everyday on this forum.

"I'm so enlightened (more than the others) but it can never be demonstrated to you."

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

It's not good for anyone to "trust you".

You're correct.  I didn't mean it literally.   Go out and do the work yourself.  Then come back and join those who did.  You're sitting here bullshitting are you not?  How many hours of meditation have you done?  How many trips?  Have you done either?  All you need are the metaphysical videos and then spiritual practice.  You don't need this place.   This place is to push you to go back out the door from which you came.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jwayne]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You're correct.  I didn't mean it literally.   Go out and do the work yourself.  Then come back and join those who did.  You're sitting here bullshitting are you not?  How many hours of meditation have you done?  How many trips?  Have you done either?  All you need are the metaphysical videos and then spiritual practice.  You don't need this place.   This place is to push you to go back out the door from which you came.

I prefer studying books over watching videos. What should happen is that people return from individualist spiritual practice with some kind of productive, generative contributions in some way conducive towards collective aims .

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Jwayne said:

That assumes not-murdering is a necessary outcome of understanding.

In that case, I would argue, your action to murder was necessarily informed by understanding. It is certainly not divorced from understanding, so to speak. Because whatever you understand is with you - inescapably - in your decision-making.

You can have very deep understanding and very deep mystical states, but later in your human existence you will encounter human challenges. If someone tries to destroy what you are constructing, you can choose to fix it by killing them. this is not necessarily wrong. If you move in high states of consciousness, you will directly understand what is right or wrong for you at a given moment, there is no universal recipe.

[Jwayne]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can have very deep understanding and very deep mystical states, but later in your human existence you will encounter human challenges. If someone tries to destroy what you are constructing, you can choose to fix it by killing them. this is not necessarily wrong. If you move in high states of consciousness, you will directly understand what is right or wrong for you at a given moment, there is no universal recipe.

I generally agree with that. Every challenge will summon a response from understanding, both the embodied/internalized aspect and the part you must consciously work out in the moment.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

I prefer studying books over watching videos. What should happen is that people return from individualist spiritual practice with some kind of productive, generative contributions in some way conducive towards collective aims .

And what would be a productive contribution in your eyes?  If you want me to coddle you about spirituality that's just not my style - I'm gonna tell you how it is.  I'm not gonna beat around the bush.  Because I see no gain in that.  And I'm telling you there is a state of Consciousness, a state of Being - that IS just Pure Being.   And AS pure Being, you will still have understanding.   You will have it in its most pristine form - you will have Omniscience.    Here, where you have piled levels of conceptual thought on top of Being and hidden Being, there still lies understanding.   That is because Being is still there.  But if you can remove the cloak, you will have God.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jwayne]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And what would be a productive contribution in your eyes?  If you want me to coddle you about spirituality that's just not my style - I'm gonna tell you how it is.  I'm not gonna beat around the bush.  Because I see no gain in that.  And I'm telling you there is a state of Consciousness, a state of Being - that IS just Pure Being.   And AS pure Being, you will still have understanding.   You will have it in its most pristine form - you will have Omniscience.    Here, where you have piled levels of conceptual thought on top of Being and hidden Being, there still lies understanding.   That is because Being is still there.  But if you can remove the cloak, you will have God.

 

 

Your description - typical of the way people on this forum write - demands much elaboration. When this is left to the reader's own translation, you end up with pseudo-communication, e.g. pseudo-agreement/disagreement. Because everyone is talking past one another. If you are using the terms used in some video series, then I trust people will be in common understanding. But even then, there must be exhaustive clarification of each term. That typically happens within the practical dimension of a tradition wherein humans contextually transmit meanings directly.

As for a productive contribution, I said it should regard collective aims - which substantiates it into something beyond private indulgence.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Your description - typical of the way people on this forum write - demands much elaboration. When this is left to the reader's own translation, you end up with pseudo-communication, e.g. pseudo-agreement/disagreement. Because everyone is talking past one another. If you are using the terms used in some video series, then I trust people will be in common understanding. But even then, there must be exhaustive clarification of each term. That typically happens within the practical dimension of a tradition wherein humans contextually transmit meanings directly.

 

As for a productive contribution, I said it should regard collective aims which substantiates it into something beyond private indulgence.

I assume you have a level of spiritual advancement when I speak with you.  If you are a specialist in a certain field and you are having a dialogue with someone and speaking in certain lingo, then it may seem foreign to someone outside of the conversation listening in.  Like, for example, if you are talking about computers to your fellow geek.  Your mom probably won't understand a word you are saying.  So I am assuming you have listened to the videos and have a clue of what I am talking about.  Most who have bothered to create an account on the forum have taken some time to study the work.   So yes, I speak In a very specialized way about Spirituality.  But really, you can replace certain words with other words and they would still mean the same thing.  There is still a very general thing that is being pointed to, regardless of the verbage.

As to your ideas regarding proper contribution, God can't be proven, so that's out.  Don't expect that.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I assume you have a level of spiritual advancement when I speak with you.  If you are a specialist in a certain field and you are having a dialogue with someone and speaking in certain lingo, then it may seem foreign to someone outside of the conversation listening in.  Like, for example, if you are talking about computers to your fellow geek.  Your mom probably won't understand a word you are saying.  So I am assuming you have listened to the videos and have a clue of what I am talking about.  Most who have bothered to create an account on the forum have taken some time to study the work.   So yes, I speak In a very specialized way about Spirituality.  But really, you can replace certain words with other words and they would still mean the same thing.  There is still a very general thing that is being pointed to, regardless of the verbage.

As to your ideas regarding proper contribution, God can't be proven, so that's out.  Don't expect that.

God can absolutely be proven. It's already been proven in Science. 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/

So they just proved the MAYA concept in Spirituality, or the Pure Imagination aspect. Now all they need to do is take some psychedelics or do some Yoga long enough to discover WHY the Universe is just an illusion to discover that everything is just pure imagination/being/Isness.

So it most definitely can be proved, Western Science has proved it MULTIPLE times they just create barriers so they cannot accept it. 

Hell a Video Camera actually proves God. A video is a motion picture. A bunch of frames stacked on top of each other. That means when you move your hand from left to right your hand is disappearing and reappearing. This means everything is phasing in and out of existence. This means everything is both dead and alive right now. This means everything is both impermanent and permanent RIGHT NOW!!! This is what vibration is!! Vibration is impermanence!!!

So because nothing can be tied down, this is why change is possible because everything is just an appearance!!! So nobody was ever truly alive because to make any motion you literally are disappearing and reappearing!!! When you see it on video you create a bias and call it movie film reel not realizing you can just as easily call everything you see a visual frame which PROVES everything is imaginary!! 

It's simple....but when you don't want to wake up you complicate it and create concepts and constructs to deny!!! Self-Deception at its best!!

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

God can absolutely be proven. It's already been proven in Science. 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/

So they just proved the MAYA concept in Spirituality, or the Pure Imagination aspect. Now all they need to do is take some psychedelics or do some Yoga long enough to discover WHY the Universe is just an illusion to discover that everything is just pure imagination/being/Isness.

So it most definitely can be proved, Western Science has proved it MULTIPLE times they just create barriers so they cannot accept it. 

Hell a Video Camera actually proves God. A video is a motion picture. A bunch of frames stacked on top of each other. That means when you move your hand from left to right your hand is disappearing and reappearing. This means everything is phasing in and out of existence. This means everything is both dead and alive right now. This means everything is both impermanent and permanent RIGHT NOW!!! This is what vibration is!! Vibration is impermanence!!!

So because nothing can be tied down, this is why change is possible because everything is just an appearance!!! So nobody was ever truly alive because to make any motion you literally are disappearing and reappearing!!! When you see it on video you create a bias and call it movie film reel not realizing you can just as easily call everything you see a visual frame which PROVES everything is imaginary!! 

It's simple....but when you don't want to wake up you complicate it and create concepts and constructs to deny!!! Self-Deception at its best!!

Haha.   Don't tell me how, but I FELT you were gonna respond to my post.  I saw you online and I felt it.  

Here's the deal.  Quantum mechanics debunked materialism.   So yes, materialism can be thrown out if you bother to look at the science.  But this is NOT God realization.   Do not confuse that with God realization.   And in your own words, "all you have to do is take..."

Well, that part isn't so simple. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1