Video “Why we Blame Women for the Masculinity Crisis”

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Consept said:

@Emerald Interesting video, I dont think men in general blame women for the perceived masculinity crisis, but definitely a lot of red pill and anti-feminists do.

It’s mostly a video about those men who get hooked into anti-Feminist internet echo chambers.

But it’s common enough to warrant concerns about that creating pipelines into ever more politically reactionary content.

The whole game is to create an echo chamber that increases and exploits the insecurities of young and/or inexperienced men. And many grifters will go there to sell men dubious “cures” for the woes these echo chambers construct.

But right wing reactionary groups like Neo-Nazis see these echo chambers as the top of their sales funnel to get angry young men into their movements.

Two primary components of Fascist politics is about the idealized hierarchical patriarchal human family… AND sexual anxiety.

So all of this dovetails very neatly into right wing radical movements that are gaining more and more of a foothold in mainstream politics.

So, in this way, it isn’t equivalent to how Feminists want to dismantle patriarchy as its goal is not to reinforce power imbalances, but to level them.

But with this type of Manosphere rhetoric, it’s goal is to portray Female inferiority and subjugation as normal and healthy for women… while women who don’t wish to be subjugated are viewed as brainwashed or traumatized at best and devious destroyers of society at worst.

And this story is comforting to men who feel emasculated and inadequate because it gives them someone to blame and a false solution to their problem (take away women’s rights).

 

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's deliciously ironic when men consider it masculine to blame women for eroding their masculinity.

That's the most beta logic of all time:

"I can't be a strong man because women have a voice."

?

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Yes, feminism and acillary progressive ideologies are demolishing traditional ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman.  This is not a mistake, this is the evolution of consciousness and natural consequence of societal development. But there will be challenges on all sides.

Those who cling to their old identity will see said new ideologies as wrong, bad or evil. They will lash out and feel confused. There may be an existential crisis. This is how it always works when the ego is threatened.

With all these emotions being stirred up, this does create a market for grifters to exploit. And most of the time these grifters themselves will not even be conscious of what they are doing. They are suffering from the exact same problem. They also are subscribed to these reactionary ideologies. Thus, it's fearful men selling to other fearful men.

Men are going to have to redefine masculinity outside of what it previously meant. Which may include some of the traditional elements, but also will likely exclude others. Transcend and include.

Of course this does not explain ALL of the behavior found in these alt-right communities. Some guys are just pissed because they've been through a real bad divorce / breakup and these anti-women narratives appeal to their bitterness. But there is a larger dynamic going on outside of that. 

Couldn’t have said it better myself ?

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Devin said:

      I've never heard of a man claiming to lack masculinity because of women. Where are you people coming up with this?

       Men will say about other men that women have emasculated them, that's no where near what you're talking about.

        You're conflating the complaints about dating struggles with social emasculation.

I’ve seen plenty of posts on here before about this… as early as a few days ago. 

There are LOTS of guys who see women as being to blame for their feelings of inadequacy… and their difficulties/insecurities about masculinity and dating.

‘It’s because women are too picky.’

‘It’s because of Feminist brainwashing.’

‘It’s because women are too loose.’

’It’s because women aren’t Feminine anymore.’

Etc.

[Emerald]

33 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I'm getting mental-masturbation vibes from this thread. 

If this is the problem, what's the solution? Are you trying to figure that out or is this more pointless male-bashing? 

My purpose for posting it is that men who are falling into this trap (and I’ve seen many on this forum) will recognize it as a trap and liberate themselves from this victim’s narrative that will never be satisfying.

The solution is for men to let go of false old-school prescriptions around Masculinity and actually find the deep Masculine within.

But first, the necessity it for men to recognize that their worth as a person isn’t contingent on how close they are to Masculine prescriptions… and it isn’t contingent upon what women think of them.

[mr_engineer]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

My purpose for posting it is that men who are falling into this trap (and I’ve seen many on this forum) will recognize it as a trap and liberate themselves from this victim’s narrative that will never be satisfying.

How do they liberate themselves from the victim's narrative?

Men need to be given a practical alternative. 'Equality' is good in theory but in practice, someone has to be in charge. Who is it going to be? 

It's fine to say that the single-family home is not the 'end-all-be-all'. I agree. Having said that, how would you rather have society be structured? What should the building-block of society be, if not the single-family home? 

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The solution is for men to let go of false old-school prescriptions around Masculinity and actually find the deep Masculine within.

And the first step of this solution, on your part, is to recognize the kernel of truth in the old-school prescriptions. If you dismiss them as 'false', you will never get anywhere with them. 

Do keep in mind that men were not, in fact, subjugated into their masculine expression, unlike women. Men chose it. And for a reason. I think it would be interesting for you to figure out that reason. In good faith. 

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But first, the necessity it for men to recognize that their worth as a person isn’t contingent on how close they are to Masculine prescriptions… and it isn’t contingent upon what women think of them.

So, do you mean, doing solo-approaching out of authentic desire instead of approaching to impress their friends or as a part of a group of boys? Because in the group one, I notice a lot of misinterpretation of the social reality that's biased by the bro-culture. But, when you're on your own, you see what's what. 

[Gesundheit2]

Lol.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

How do they liberate themselves from the victim's narrative?

By separating fact from fiction as it pertains to women. There are too many myths that are treated as gospel in certain corners of the internet.

And these myths creates a lot of complexes in men about Masculinity, dating, relationships, and self-worth in general.

Men need to be given a practical alternative. 'Equality' is good in theory but in practice, someone has to be in charge. Who is it going to be? 

It's fine to say that the single-family home is not the 'end-all-be-all'. I agree. Having said that, how would you rather have society be structured? What should the building-block of society be, if not the single-family home?

It’s not actually true that someone has to be in charge in a relationship. It’s not a zero sum game.

In my relationships (including my current relationship), things have always ebbed and flowed. And this has only ever enhanced the Masculine/Feminine dynamic.

But I’m not even talking about how any given relationship plays out or how society is structured.

It’s about strict adherence to false gender constructs that have nothing to do with real Masculinity and real Femininity.

And these false/narrow/fetishized notions about the Feminine being used as a way to feed into male victim narratives that are intended to make men feel like they’re victims of women, Feminism, and the modern world.

And the negative consequences that emanate from providing an idealized and fetishized vision of male/female relationships of yesteryear.

And these narratives give men who buy into them a sense of aggrieved entitlement to an idealized past that never actually existed as they imagine it.

And the first step of this solution, on your part, is to recognize the kernel of truth in the old-school prescriptions. If you dismiss them as 'false', you will never get anywhere with them. 

It’s the narrative around these kernels of truth that’s false. It’s always about how those truth kernels are cherry-picked, twisted, and woven together.

And these narratives create unrealistic expectations to fit into Masculine and Feminine boxes through conformity to narrow gender-based rules.

It has very little resemblance to real Femininity and Masculinity, even if it seeks to ape them and imitate them.

Do keep in mind that men were not, in fact, subjugated into their masculine expression, unlike women. Men chose it. And for a reason. I think it would be interesting for you to figure out that reason. In good faith. 

Men often choose to suppress themselves to these narrow rules because they think they will get power in return.

Like a carnival game that’s rigged, but you keep trying because you think you can win.

And these subjugation narratives are usually woven and proliferated by more powerful men looking to create a situation where men’s revolutionary energy can be redirected downward towards those less powerful (women, minorities, etc.) instead of up towards more powerful men.

And so, lower status men end up ignoring the way they are disenfranchised by the status quo because they see the status quo as a path to power that just hasn’t paid off yet.

So, a corrupt king may try to lampshade that he’s overtaxing his subjects by flattering male peasants with stories of how they are the kings of their own household because their wives and children are the subjects of the man.

And these men won’t feel subjugated at all. Quite the contrary… they’ll feel validated.

But this then creates more hierarchy and class division because the disenfranchised man starts subjugating his class allies and creating division in the peasantry.

And he seeks to make himself feel powerful and king-like by diminishing his female compatriots’ power.

But it all plays into the hand of the king who can quash revolutionary, dissident energy from the disenfranchised by sewing division along gender lines.

(This is also common along racial and ethnic lines too.)

So, men often opt to keep themselves handcuffed to these rules because they expect a reward that will never actually come because it is based in a mythos that is created to subjugate them… like a fly stuck in a pile of honey.

Women on the other hand have no such boon to stay in these narrower roles. The only reason why a woman would stay in them is if she’s convinced it’s the only way to be loved/respected/accepted… or the only way to survive.

This makes it much harder for a man to progress in consciousness in this dimension… because there is an illusion that they’ll lose power by leaving behind these personally narrowing myths.

It’s a bit like trading two $1 bills for one $10 bill. You have more power with the $10 but from a certain level of consciousness a person says, “Hey! No fair! I used to have two but now I only have one!”

So, do you mean, doing solo-approaching out of authentic desire instead of approaching to impress their friends or as a part of a group of boys? Because in the group one, I notice a lot of misinterpretation of the social reality that's biased by the bro-culture. But, when you're on your own, you see what's what. 

That’s a part of it. It is often the case that men seek to fit these false Masculine ideals because they want acceptance and praise from other men. And the woman is just the currency that men can use to show other men how much of a manly man he is.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Emerald

[Jacob Morres]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

‘It’s because women are too picky.’

 

this is the one i said

i mean yeah i agree with it - most are very picky nowadays.

but i also agree with putting in the effort to solve it from the man's POV 

 

but i also think it's a complex systemic issue rather than women's fault. there's tons of factors that lead to the dating crisis for men

these conservative view points dont interest me

so be careful putting everyone in the same bucket 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[Emerald]

Just now, Jacob Morres said:

this is the one i said

i mean yeah i agree with it - they are very picky

but i also agree with putting in the effort to solve it from the man's POV 

 

but i also think it's a complex systemic issue rather than women's fault. there's tons of factors that lead to the dating crisis

these conservative view points dont interest me so be careful putting everyone in the same bucket 

It’s not true though. Women honestly aren’t picky enough.

So many women are with awful guys. The bar is really on the ground,

Most men who think women are picky are probably just not that social and haven’t had that much experience.

We are more selective than men and we don’t get easily impressed by random guys approaching.

But women are often picky as it comes to feelings but not picky as it comes to the quality of the man.

It’s unfortunately quite common that as long as a woman has feelings for a guy, she’ll bend over backwards to excuse all his flaws and shortcomings and throw standards out the window.

I’ve seen great women jump through hoops to hold onto total deadbeats and jerks. And that’s because women are selective, but once she selects it goes really deep.

But she’s not selecting on some meritocratic basis. It’s all about feelings. 

So if she has no strong feelings for a guy, she’s going to be pretty neutral about him.

This might be where the illusion of pickiness comes from.

Most women won’t be interested in a given man.

She’s not like a guy who is interested in women in general.

The prospect of men being interested in her is pretty boring.

But once she likes a guy (which comes about for no logical or meritocratic value) a sizable minority of women forget all about their standards.

So, women generally are not picky at all… though they are more selective in that they will usually only be interested in one or a few guys at a time.

[mr_engineer]

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

By separating fact from fiction as it pertains to women. There are too many myths that are treated as gospel in certain corners of the internet.

And these myths creates a lot of complexes in men about Masculinity, dating, relationships, and self-worth in general.

That is correct. I agree with that. 

However, the big challenge here is that women often-times aren't straight-forward when it comes to what they want. So, it can get hard to find credible female sources on what women want. But, of course, it can be done. And, I do agree that this fact shouldn't be blamed for their failure to understand what women want. Having said that, I do have sympathy for men stuck in those rabbit-holes for this reason. And, if they screw up their narrative of how things work, I can understand that. 

It can take years of research to figure out who's credible and who's not. Again, not blaming women for this. Just saying that women are not powerless to changing this situation. 

51 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It’s the narrative around these kernels of truth that’s false. It’s always about how those truth kernels are cherry-picked, twisted, and woven together.

And these narratives create unrealistic expectations to fit into Masculine and Feminine boxes through conformity to narrow gender-based rules.

It has very little resemblance to real Femininity and Masculinity, even if it seeks to ape them and imitate them.

This is true. Which is why there is a very dire need for role-models for both men and women. Especially men. 

I have ideas for changes in the education-system in order to have a better future on this front. I will test them out. Let's see what happens! 

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Men often choose to suppress themselves to these narrow rules because they think they will get power in return.

Like a carnival game that’s rigged, but you keep trying because you think you can win.

And these subjugation narratives are usually woven and proliferated by more powerful men looking to create a situation where men’s revolutionary energy can be redirected downward towards those less powerful (women, minorities, etc.) instead of up towards more powerful men.

And so, lower status men end up ignoring the way they are disenfranchised by the status quo because they see the status quo as a path to power that just hasn’t paid off yet.

So, a corrupt king may try to lampshade that he’s overtaxing his subjects by flattering male peasants with stories of how they are the kings of their own household because their wives and children are the subjects of the man.

And these men won’t feel subjugated at all. Quite the contrary… they’ll feel validated.

But this then creates more hierarchy and class division because the disenfranchised man starts subjugating his class allies and creating division in the peasantry.

And he seeks to make himself feel powerful and king-like by diminishing his female compatriots’ power.

But it all plays into the hand of the king who can quash revolutionary, dissident energy from the disenfranchised by sewing division along gender lines.

(This is also common along racial and ethnic lines too.)

So, men often opt to keep themselves handcuffed to these rules because they expect a reward that will never actually come because it is based in a mythos that is created to subjugate them… like a fly stuck in a pile of honey.

Women on the other hand have no such boon to stay in these narrower roles. The only reason why a woman would stay in them is if she’s convinced it’s the only way to be loved/respected/accepted… or the only way to survive.

This makes it much harder for a man to progress in consciousness in this dimension… because there is an illusion that they’ll lose power by leaving behind these personally narrowing myths.

It’s a bit like trading two $1 bills for one $10 bill. You have more power with the $10 but from a certain level of consciousness a person says, “Hey! No fair! I used to have two but now I only have one!”

Alright. 

Something very fundamental to understand about men is that men are identified with what they do. By themselves and by others. Which is why, men need role-models. The point of this is to teach men to embody masculinity. Only self-actualized men can do this. Women cannot. And, men have genuine love and respect for these role-models. It's not just transactional or fear-based. 

And, another fundamental thing to understand about men is that men are givers. Or providers. Men have been wired like this because a pregnant woman cannot fend for herself. So, the father has to provide. 

Now, here's my claim - it is this impulse to give and to be significant that's behind men's drive to chase status. And, it is because of men's identification with what they do and this need for a role-model to look upto, that men accept being lower-status for now, with the hope that they will get status in the future.

I agree with your assessment of how the system works. However, the blue-pilled men (for lack of better word) don't see it like this, because they are hyper-identified with their roles. The problem with this system that you're describing is that because humanity has been unconscious, men have had too small of a circle of concern. Which is what led to all of the war and genocide and oppression in history. It expanded as humanity developed more and more. 

But, I do not agree with your solution to this situation. Because, it would not be fair to purely demonize the men up above. They run the system and they can do this because they have competence. Young, ambitious men recognize that they have a lot to learn from them. Now, the system may suck, and they may have huge shadows. So, here's the solution - learn from the best right now, get better at what you do, then create a new system and outcompete them. 

If women could recognize this and align themselves with the right causes, that would be helpful. It would definitely be helpful for women, because they will have a place in the new system. And their femininity will be respected. 

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

That’s a part of it. It is often the case that men seek to fit these false Masculine ideals because they want acceptance and praise from other men. And the woman is just the currency that men can use to show other men how much of a manly man he is.

100%. 

[StarStruck]

Social power is much more powerful than muscle power.

And women tend to be better at social games than men.

In a sense women are the more powerful sex although they say it is men who are more powerful.

So I find a little bit petty to dunk on guys by calling them beta or whatever.

The battle of the sexes is not fought in the octagon. It is fought with narratives which the women control at this moment.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Bobby_2021]

14 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

It is fought with narratives which the women control at this moment.

Listen, no single person, entity, or group controls "the narrative". It's a messy mixture of all of those.

Nowadays plenty of women have added their own narrative into the mix. 

Billionaires can exert more influence on the narrative a lot more for sure. There's that. But that's all. 

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Listen, no single person, entity, or group controls "the narrative". It's a messy mixture of all of those.

Nowadays plenty of women have added their own narrative into the mix. 

Billionaires can exert more influence on the narrative a lot more for sure. There's that. But that's all. 

LOL, try saying some moderate red pill shit in a group of females and see their reaction.

[Leo Gura]

Women are too picky?

This is so silly. If anything, women are not picky enough. They sleep with the worse characters.

If I had a daughter I would teach her to be pickier. If you're a shady character, you don't deserve sex with my daughter.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

LOL, try saying some moderate red pill shit in a group of females and see their reaction.

What are you even saying?

Saying moderate feminist shit in alpha male™ podcasts would receive the same reaction. So what? 

What does this has to do the "the narrative"?

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women are too picky?

This is so silly. If anything, women are not picky enough. They sleep with the worse characters.

If I had a daughter I would teach her to be pickier. If you're a shady character, you don't deserve sex with my daughter.

Women are too picky to that she picks only shady characters to sleep with. They are more exciting, charming and make up for a great first impression. 

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What are you even saying?

Saying moderate feminist shit in alpha male™ podcasts would receive the same reaction. So what? 

 

Stop playing stupid. We aren't talking about podcasts.

[Devin]

Can someone point me to this masculinity crisis? It's totally a fake social media drama narrative.

[Consept]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

 

I wasnt necessarily equating feminism to red pill what im saying is that at the extremes of any ideology you tend to get victim narratives that blame another group for all the problems. For example at the extreme end of feminism is something like Female Dating Strategies - https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/ which isnt seeking to tear down the patriarchy in the name of equality they genuinely blame men for their issues in dating and see them as superior, this is the exact mirror image of the extreme red pill, that sub-reddit even has over 250k posters. You could also argue that this can be a pipline into extreme wokism and cancel culture, although I would agree that red pill is much more popular and probably a more potent pipeline to right wing ideologies but im just given an example of the other side. 

Up until recently red pill was not even close to the mainstream, it was probably closer to where the female equivalent is now, but probably due to high profile grifters like Tate and I would also argue the suppression of things like teaching pick up which, when done well and in a healthy way,  could provide men with the tools needed to become better. I think what happened was the cancellation of RSD and similar companies (not saying they were perfect by any means) created a vacuum where the fresh and fits and Tates could clean up. This is where feminism can mis-step because they can see all content from a male perspective as bad but they dont realise that young males do need someone to look up to, so if guys do keep getting cancelled you will eventually get to a guy who completely doesnt give a fuck and will full in grift and tell young men what they want to hear and this is where we are with Tate. 

So for me this is a problem that needs to be worked out as in how do we provide good role models and purpose for young men in this new society? Because no doing so and being reactionary against all men that attempt to do so can be extremely detrimental for society. 

[Consept]

19 minutes ago, Devin said:

Can someone point me to this masculinity crisis? It's totally a fake social media drama narrative.

I wouldnt say its totally fake, it is true that boys are falling behind girls in school and of course there are higher suicide rates of men than women, men are more likely to be homeless, addicts etc. So there are definitely issues, I think most of them are due to society changing and men not wanting or not knowing how to change with it. It is difficult because there are so many factors conflicting, evolution, genetics, societal norms etc, before it was laid out pretty black and white whats expected of a man and a woman but now we're questioning if a 'man' is even a thing, what we have is freedom but we are all experiencing the anxiety of that freedom.