Did Leo change his perspective on this? Still confused

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you want to break the ice on the surface and penetrate the depth of the infinite lake that you are, you have to understand this. It is not a mental compression or a thought, it is the collapse of the delusion of multiplicity, which keeps you skating on the ice, living in two dimensions, preventing you from diving into the third.

Beyond both oneness and multiplicity is the thing you're missing.

I don't think Leo is missing that. He is coping. You are just not awake.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Beyond both oneness and multiplicity is the thing you're missing.

I don't think Leo is missing that. He is coping. You are just not awake.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

.

What are you? The number one disciple of Leo to say those nonsense about who is awake and who is not? It is obvious that Leo's priority is to maintain the hierarchy, in which he is on one side and the rest of humanity present and past on the other. Why? Who knows, he's human and all us are crazy. 

It is obvious that you have not understood what I am trying to explain, so do yourself a favor and stop making a fool of yourself by imitating your captain.

[Inliytened1]

 

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What are you? The number one disciple of Leo to say those nonsense about who is awake and who is not? It is obvious that Leo's priority is to maintain the hierarchy, in which he is on one side and the rest of humanity present and past on the other. Why? Who knows, he's human and all us are crazy. 

It is obvious that you have not understood what I am trying to explain, so do yourself a favor and stop making a fool of yourself by imitating your captain.

@Gesundheit2He's awake.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Gesundheit2]

@Inliytened1 @Breakingthewall You're both awake to certain things, but unawake to others. The thing I'm trying to communicate, both of you don't understand. Don't take it personally, but I think you're paradigm-locked. Otherwise, you'd get it. But you don't get it, so that's what I mean.

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What are you? The number one disciple of Leo to say those nonsense about who is awake and who is not?

It doesn't matter what I am. It matters what I say.

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is obvious that Leo's priority is to maintain the hierarchy, in which he is on one side and the rest of humanity present and past on the other. Why? Who knows, he's human and all us are crazy. 

It's not obvious. That's just one possibility, and I don't know if it's true.

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is obvious that you have not understood what I am trying to explain, so do yourself a favor and stop making a fool of yourself by imitating your captain.

You were just trying to sell solipsism. There's nothing there to understand. You have a bunch of arguments that seem convincing to you. What I'm saying is that they aren't convincing to me and should not be convincing to you too. Once they are not convincing anymore, you will have awakened to what I'm saying. But until then, you'd still be unawake.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Inliytened1 @Breakingthewall You're both awake to certain things, but unawake to others. The thing I'm trying to communicate, both of you don't understand. Don't take it personally, but I think you're paradigm-locked. Otherwise, you'd get it. But you don't get it, so that's what I mean.

It doesn't matter what I am. It matters what I say.

It's not obvious. That's just one possibility, and I don't know if it's true.

You were just trying to sell solipsism. There's nothing there to understand. You have a bunch of arguments that seem convincing to you. What I'm saying is that they aren't convincing to me and should not be convincing to you too. Once they are not convincing anymore, you will have awakened to what I'm saying. But until then, you'd still be unawake.

Lol.  I would never lock myself into a paradigm.   I hope you don't either.   I would never sell solipsism, in fact I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.   However, that being said, that worst enemy is my imagination.  I, cannot escape solipsism, because I have seen it for myself.  You don't ever want to see it.  If you see it, you will be enlightened, and you will be dead.

[Arthogaan]

58 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Beyond both oneness and multiplicity is the thing you're missing.

In direct experience there is only Oneness. There is no multiplicity. There is only imaginations of distinctions within that Oneness. Wouldn't you agree?

[Gesundheit2]

@Inliytened1 You aren't dead, my friend. Here you are, breathing, and typing on your keyboard.

What you're saying is fairly obvious to me, but it's irrelevant. It seems significant to you, and I understand that. But you don't understand how irrelevant it is. If you did, you'd see what I'm saying. That's the next level.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Inliytened1 You aren't dead, my friend. Here you are, breathing, and typing on your keyboard.

What you're saying is fairly obvious to me, but it's irrelevant. It seems significant to you, and I understand that. But you don't understand how irrelevant it is. If you did, you'd see what I'm saying. That's the next level.

Well - you do return.   But not the same.  Gandalf the Grey returned as Gandalf the White - emerging from the depths of hell.  His battle with the Balrog pales in comparison to what you will realize when you die.   And what I am saying to you is irrelevant because you have a closed mind.   A closed mind will never bring you the depths of peace you seek.  It will just keep the ego running on high.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Arthogaan]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It seems significant to you, and I understand that. But you don't understand how irrelevant it is. If you did, you'd see what I'm saying. That's the next level.

I understand how importance of it is relative. But it is very important for me at my stage. And Absolute Solipsism just resonates and perfectly explains everything, but on the other hand I just can't be 100% sure. And talking and asking about it constantly, trying to grok this 100% - even if irrelevant - is what gives me fun at the moment.

[Gesundheit2]

1 minute ago, Arthogaan said:

In direct experience there is only Oneness. There is no multiplicity. There is only imaginations of distinctions within that Oneness. Wouldn't you agree?

1. You're saying "In direct experience", so you're speaking relative to the thing you think of as "direct experience". So that's a relative statement. To assume that direct experience holds more truth than beliefs is a belief. And to assume the reverse is also a belief, but can you see the subtle trick here?
2. Oneness, multiplicity, imagination, distinctions, etc. These are all thoughts. Without the thoughts, you wouldn't know the difference between any of those things. So you're basing your understanding of the world on thoughts, but you think (another thought) that this understanding is infallible because it's coming from (you guessed it) another thought called "direct experience" that holds more truth.
3. Truth is also another tricky concept to decipher. But simply put, reality does not need an explanation. It is just there, and it is what it is. But the mind is also there, and it thinks thoughts, and these thoughts get mistaken for truth.

[Gesundheit2]

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well - you do return.   But not the same.  Gandalf the Grey returned as Gandalf the White - emerging from the depths of hell.  His battle with the Balrog pales in comparison to what you will realize when you die.   And what I am saying to you is irrelevant because you have a closed mind.   A closed mind will never bring you the depths of peace you seek.  It will just keep the ego running on high.

I don't understand the reference. Is it from Lord of the Rings?

It's irrelevant to me precisely because I have an open mind. If my mind was closed, I would get stuck on thinking that it's the most significant thing in the world. I don't hold on to insights. I let go, and move on, allowing more insights into my life.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Arthogaan]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

You're saying "In direct experience", so you're speaking relative to the thing you think of as "direct experience"

How can it be a relative notion if all there is, is direct experience (consciousness/I AM)? (Asking not arguing)

 

 

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

But simply put, reality does not need an explanation. It is just there, and it is what it is. But the mind is also there, and it thinks thoughts, and these thoughts get mistaken for truth.

What would you say to me trying to make a sneaky workaround about this in the following way :
Absolute Solipsism is true, but the moment it is thought about, conceptualized by a mind it is immediatelly bastardized and it is no longer true. So no one can claim it. But it is true.

[Gesundheit2]

10 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

How can it be a relative notion if all there is, is direct experience (consciousness/I AM)? (Asking not arguing)

Because you don't really know if it's "all there is", you just assume that, because you cannot currently access it in the way that you think accessing it should occur.

Quote

What would you say to me trying to make a sneaky workaround about this in the following way :

Absolute Solipsism is true, but the moment it is thought about, conceptualized by a mind it is immediatelly bastardized and it is no longer true. So no one can claim it. But it is true.

Haha! That certainly is a sneaky workaround.

However,

1. I could say the same thing about multiplicity, but solipsists would object that that's just my imagination.
2. If no one can claim it, how can it be true? From whose perspective would it be true in that case?

Edited February 26, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Because you don't really know if it's "all there is", you just assume that, because you cannot currently access it in the way that you think accessing it should occur.

 

I think you are missing his point here...he said direct experience.   This is prior to assumption.

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

However,

1. I could say the same thing about multiplicity, but solipsists would object that that's just my imagination.
2. If no one can claim it, how can it be true? From whose perspective would it be true in that case?

There isn't a solipsist.   If no one can claim it that is Absolute Truth.  It is the omission of perspective.   

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Arthogaan]

19 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

If no one can claim it, how can it be true? From whose perspective would it be true in that case?

Consciousness with no thoughts whatsoever.

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think you are missing his point here...he said direct experience.   This is prior to assumption.

A "direct experience" that is prior to assumption, is an assumption.

It is also an assumption to think that you can separate reality from assumptions, or that you can have a reality without assumptions. It's just naive.

Whenever you think: "Oh, finally! This is the absolute reality! It must be!", you've already made a bunch of assumptions. But that won't be apparent to you until you transcend that state.

[Gesundheit2]

@Arthogaan See my reply right above.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

A "direct experience" that is prior to assumption, is an assumption.

It is also an assumption to think that you can separate reality from assumptions, or that you can have a reality without assumptions. It's just naive.

 

And that assumption would be wrong.

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And that assumption would be wrong.

Right and wrong is also an assumption.

Don't you get it? This shit is infinite. That's the game.