There's no such thing as an "I" lmao.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are beginning to sound like @Nahm ...hard to understand yet there is some logic behind the madness.     Please try to make your posts graspable by all.

There is no madness, i could explain you totally clearly. I'm talking about ego death with 5 meo DMT. My experience is , several times, this: i do, and the absolute void, the total absence. The reality is absolute and it's total death. You don't want to experience that. But it's the price. After that shit, 5 min later, i do 5 meo again, more dose, and direct to the horror. This time the absolute void reveals as absolute I. Seems the same because both are emptiness, but one is death, and the other is the unlimited source of existence, the infinity. You encompass all the infinity, the absolute freedom, and in an absolute joy of being you, more that any dream, the wildest, the I absolute AM manifest. That is what you are

[RMQualtrough]

Here, I just want you to see what I mean. Look in a mirror. I know what you are all thinking probably:

So we know that "I" is not the person in the mirror.

Okay.

But what about the "I" that is "here" looking into the mirror?

Oh. Now what if the "I" here looking into the mirror ALSO wasn't present. What if there was ONLY the image of the mirror and person in it, COMPLETELY unobserved. Completely unseen by anybody or anything. STILL APPEARING. But with no I in the person in the mirror, AND no I back here looking at the person in the mirror through your eyes.

ONLY the appearance of reality. ONLY. That the seen elements appear but there is literally nothing seeing them. That you + red = the appearance of the color red is pure fiction, that you = red is fiction, that red IS red.

RED IS RED. RED IS RED. RED IS RED. RED IS RED. RED IS NOT "I". RED IS RED. THE "I" THOUGHT IS THE "I" THOUGHT. THERE IS NO I. THERE IS NO I BUT THE THOUGHT OF "I".

RED AND I ARE BOTH APPEARANCES. THERE IS NO I. THERE IS NO SEER. THERE IS NO THINKER. DELETE THYSELF.

SEEN THINGS ARE NOT SEEN. SEEN THINGS ARE THE SEEN THINGS. IT IS WHAT IT IS AND NOTHING EXTRA.

 

[Razard86]

I will answer my questions since my questions are being hidden from.

1. What is awareness?....awareness is experience. Now....if a tree falls in the woods...does it make a sound if it isn't observed?

Awareness...is just experience....happening....being aware of itself. 

What is thought? Thought is awareness separating itself by presenting infinite contrast, attaching a definition/story to it, so it can be separated. 

When Infinity is realized, thought ceases...because all division...is thought up or imagined. When infinity attaches to all expression/contrast equally, it collapses and all that is left is awareness....

Then awareness...loses everything that made it a separate self, by becoming all self= no self. Then awareness....thinks....what am I? Since thought....is division.....it must divide to answer that question

No self= all self, if this were not so.....a self could not be created. A self is a distinct expression.... without distinction....you cannot have conflict.

So you saying right now that there is no self, and debating us right now....is literally not in your direct experience. Do you get it? 

The correct answer would be.... all selves are self. So right now you are arguing with your self...if that weren't true...you would be in perfect agreement.

So how do you break perfect agreement?....By completing the illusion of separation. Right now as you debate us....you still believe you are separate. You are literally denying you are a self. The issue isn't whether there is a self, the issue is you think the words I am typing right now...AREN'T YOUR WORDS.

You are debating with yourself...right now. You are playing the I am confused game, because if you figure out what is being said here.....you realize what you are. You don't want that, so you choose to dance around the finish line instead of crossing it.

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are beginning to sound like @Nahm

You know where to touch ? ?

Edited September 18, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[RMQualtrough]

Watch: The flower can continue to appear exactly like that when you DELETE the ENTIRE perception that there is an I, that there is seeing, or that there is a person.

You can literally DELETE all notion of there being any I at all. Completely delete it. And reality does not stop appearing. The flower can continue to appear completely and utterly in your absence.

Nobody seeing it yet it looks like a flower. Reality is painted with colors and sounds, the colors and sounds are the things themselves. Reality is NOT anything other than WHAT IT IS. "I" thought is "I" thought. Red is red. Flower image is flower image.

Nobody and nothing needs to exist coinciding with any of these things. Do you understand what it means? That there be a seen object floating around nowhere with literally nobody seeing it? Seen WITHOUT seeing?

Do you know the way sound becomes omnipresent, nowhere, and everywhere on the Deemz? Do the same with vision. Stop the perception of sights appearing to you, in front of you, or ANYWHERE in relation to you. Sight is a motherfucker. Humans are like sighthounds, it's our primary sense for positioning in the 3D world, so even flatland Salvia can have a me + out there perception. Fuckin' click drag del it like the imaginary thought that it is.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

Watch: The flower can continue to appear exactly like that when you DELETE the ENTIRE perception that there is an I, that there is seeing, or that there is a person.

25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 @Nahm

The flower is you, and that could be obvious. What is not obvious is when it isn't a flower. Just nothing, an empty hole without bottom. There is when you realize that you are and you are absolute, and there is no logic for that imo. The i am is the pure emptiness, you have to experience, there is not a mental process to understand it

[RMQualtrough]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I will answer my questions since my questions are being hidden from.

1. What is awareness?....awareness is experience. Now....if a tree falls in the woods...does it make a sound if it isn't observed?

Awareness...is just experience....happening....being aware of itself. 

What is thought? Thought is awareness separating itself by presenting infinite contrast, attaching a definition/story to it, so it can be separated. 

When Infinity is realized, thought ceases...because all division...is thought up or imagined. When infinity attaches to all expression/contrast equally, it collapses and all that is left is awareness....

Then awareness...loses everything that made it a separate self, by becoming all self= no self. Then awareness....thinks....what am I? Since thought....is division.....it must divide to answer that question

No self= all self, if this were not so.....a self could not be created. A self is a distinct expression.... without distinction....you cannot have conflict.

So you saying right now that there is no self, and debating us right now....is literally not in your direct experience. Do you get it? 

The correct answer would be.... all selves are self. So right now you are arguing with your self...if that weren't true...you would be in perfect agreement.

So how do you break perfect agreement?....By completing the illusion of separation. Right now as you debate us....you still believe you are separate. You are literally denying you are a self. The issue isn't whether there is a self, the issue is you think the words I am typing right now...AREN'T YOUR WORDS.

You are debating with yourself...right now. You are playing the I am confused game, because if you figure out what is being said here.....you realize what you are. You don't want that, so you choose to dance around the finish line instead of crossing it.

The tree falling in the forest IS the thing itself. NOBODY HAS EVER HEARD A TREE FALL IN A FOREST. NEVER. The sound of a tree falling is what IS. The sound is what reality is painted with. It is never ever ever ever observed and never has been. There has never been anybody who saw a sight or heard a sound. The sight and sound are what IS. The THOUGHT or idea of self is appearing exactly like those sights and sounds. The thought IS the thought. The sound IS the sound. They have absolutely positively literally ZERO additives. NONE. Sound appears UNHEARD. NEVER HAS BEEN HEARD. Sound is never heard yet there is still sound.

Please tell me you understand what I mean.

[axiom]

20 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

The sense of spatial dimension is why the you even exists so easily. It has a nice little space to craft itself in. It's not even just causing the idea of reality being external. Reality is what is, the you is fictitious.

I am quite sure this is what the Hindu and Buddhist people argued about forever.

It's so absurdly sneaky - you've got to admit it's very funny when it's seen. The sheer obviousness of it. Obviously it's impossible to explain it though. It has to be seen.

Contrary to what some seem to think here, the loss of the 'I' or the 'you' is not some rookie interim stage. It is final and absolute. It's not that you are the absolute. It's that the absolute is the absolute.

There is really no need to shoehorn the 'I' into things. The 'I' is not the substrate any more than 'pizza' is the substrate. Both are appearances.

[Leo Gura]

I is existence itself.

You will never eliminate the I because it's Absolute Truth. You might as well try to bite your own face off.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[RMQualtrough]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I is existence itself.

You will never eliminate the I because it's Absolute Truth. You might as well try to bite your own face off.

Yeah? So then what does it mean when the I stops existing yet somehow impossibly other appearances do not?

You see how easily sound loses position on drugs. Humans are like sighthounds, our vision is so deep rooted for our navigation of the world, that even on hard drugs, you see how that is stubborn in comparison to sound?

A low level breakthrough trip and sound is everywhere. Yet the sights still appear to be appearing in front as though we are on a cinema seat watching a movie. This is positional sense, this is unrelated to identity sense.

What if the surround sound effect happened with vision too? That the I character watching it stopped being there. What does that mean then?

The fact whatever is appearing is appearing is absolute truth (tm). The "I" is not. The fact the "I" is APPEARING as sense etc, it absolute truth. It does not mean the entity is actually there. It means the thought/idea of it is.

[Leo Gura]

@RMQualtrough You are conflating self with I. I is Absolute but self is finite and can change. I is not a character. Self is the character. You can lose the self but you cannot lose the I. I is not an entity per se, I is pure Infinity, the Godhead.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

11 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I believe you are describing DMT trip perspective shifts. That is the loss of center. That is why it feels infinite, because the sense of size and border is gone. Usually in sober states of being, the ego attaches itself to positions in the sensory space.

So for example even though the entirety of your sensory field is imaginary, the ego attaches itself only to the shape of the body appearing within it. So it feels like you end at your arms and that the wall and such is "outside".

When the ego loses the ability to do this, that is exactly what you and others are experiencing on DMT. It has nowhere to attach itself so loses border and just sort of leaks out and becomes totally malleable. So it extends to your ENTIRE sensory experience, and there is no perceived border. Hence infinite.

Do you see that is exactly what is happening when you breakthrough on DMT? That is not ego death, it is loss of center.

I don't believe there is an absolute I. I think all forms of I are tacked onto what is by default without one. Redness doesn't come packaged with an I. The I is the ego. The idea/thought of self that is appearing, is adding the I on as though it were more than an appearance but an actual entity sitting there either: Watching red, being red, or comingling with red.

I feel like in your mind you are labelling an awakening facet (in this case realizing You are the Infinite I, AKA God) as just some "DMT trip perspective shift" or "loss of center" and thus denigrating it's truth. Consider that maybe it's not just "loss of center" but the most amazing discovery that you'll ever make - that YOU are f&#king God, the Absolute I you've always have been and will be and you're absolutely everything that exists? Including redness, plants and all that.

Also I just feel like your interpretation here of such an awakening is inaccurate. Interpretations? Cmooon man

You know, ego loss/death is not all there is  Yes, there is no "you" observing redness. You ARE redness and everything else.

You don't "believe" or not in the absolute I. You can discover it (it's You) - that's a claim I'd make.

36 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

What would happen if you lost the ability to perceive any sense of self? Since the sense of self is exactly that, it is a "sense". What is the self you perceive was fuckin' DELETED completely but somehow red was still there. Did you know that can happen? And then if the red can remain when there is zero perception of any self, I, life, person, how can any of those be said to be necessary components in anything? If red CAN appear without you, no matter how brief, it shouldn't be possible at all. If the you was in fact the alleged ground of reality.

Again, consider that maybe red appears without "you" (and does) because red IS You = God = Absolute. It couldn't not appear because it does, because You're imagining it.

But I get what you're saying. I guess you just had a different type of awakening or something.

If you're interested, I did experience a powerful ego death. There was absolutely no reminiscence of me, just THIS. But I'd tell you that you can also see (Infinite) YOU in THIS and it's no less true.

[axiom]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@RMQualtrough You are conflating self with I. I is Absolute but self is finite and can change. I is not a character. Self is the character. You can lose the self but you cannot lose the I. I is not an entity per se, I is pure Infinity, the Godhead.

Then why call it an 'I' ?

Might as well call it "Chicken Royale with cheese"

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, axiom said:

Then why call it an 'I' ?

Might as well call it "Chicken Royale with cheese"

This is the limitations of language.  Call whatever whatever.  Being or becoming it is prior to what you call it. What he is talking about is identifying with the Self.   And he thinks this doesn't exist.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Inliytened1

[RMQualtrough]

19 minutes ago, axiom said:

There is really no need to shoehorn the 'I' into things. The 'I' is not the substrate any more than 'pizza' is the substrate. Both are appearances.

I mean this yes. It seems really easy to convey, and I can't tell if people do see what I mean or not. I'm trying really hard to say red is red. Blue is blue. Sound is sound.

That the sound of a tree falling in a forest makes a sound because the sound IS LITERALLY THE VERY THING THAT IT IS. The "somebody" being there to witness it does not even exist. There has never been somebody who EVER has heard a tree fall in a forest. The tree falling IS THE VERY THING ITSELF.

I don't know if people know what I mean, because they are saying stuff about "observing" the sound when the tree falls. As though there's something other than the thing itself. But I'm trying very hard to convey otherwise.

Leo discussing I's, but he did a video at some point, similar, about how when reality creates a tree it doesn't make atoms and people and eyes. Just 100% direct TREE. Image of tree in total absolute complete absence of the "one who sees it". Complete absence of observation.....

The messed up fears and beliefs caused by Atman style writings is obvious by glancing at thread titles. If infinity X, when Y what will Z, what if infinite suffering, what if God ABC'd to the DEF?

[Inliytened1]

@RMQualtrough I think what you are basically saying is Being is prior to knowing and not knowing is Truth.   Am I correct?

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, axiom said:

Then why call it an 'I' ?

Might as well call it "Chicken Royale with cheese"

Because that's what you call yourself. For fuck's sake. Why do you call yourself an I and not a Royale with cheese?

Edited September 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura There has to be something- for God's sake.  But that doesn't get to the root of his issue.  His issue stems from a lack of awakening.  Conceptually he is correct.   Not knowing is Truth.  But he fails to come full circle into Infinite Knowing.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Hojo]

3 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

It's fictional BS. God is also fictional BS. Doesn't exist. It's made of thoughts, feelings, and ideas. The I is a sense, and the "God" is an idea.

All bullshit (because it can go away but existence does not go away with it).

God is the base of reality. Its a placeholder for things to exist in reality. Its the nothing you need in order to be something. But the nothing placeholder is the awareness of the universe. There is no I as in I am {my name} thats a fiction of the brain. The nothing placeholder of the universe is real and it is conscious, its your consciousness, it can think. It has infinite intelligence.God is holding all the information of reality and its behind your awareness. There is nothing behind your percetual field except god the placeholder of the universe.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Hojo

[RMQualtrough]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because that's what you call yourself. For fuck's sake. Why do you call yourself an I and not a Royale with cheese?

We got the metric system, we wouldn't know what the fuck a quarter pounder is. But we still call a Big Mac a Big Mac.