Ask A Girl Where You Went Wrong If She Rejects You?

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Yeah makes sense. I just assumed a girl would be like "oh hes physically unattractive, so I dont want to date him" or "oh he wasn't assertive enough so I found him unattractive" in her head while dating me, because im definitely aware of why i dont like someone romantically. But I did totally forget about the whole "girls dont know what they want" mantra when making this question.

I think women who have a more judgmental way about them, could have thoughts like this floating around. But that would more-so have to do with just being generally judgmental and that personality trait spilling over into their romantic life. For me personally, every time I've ever gotten attracted to a guy, it starts neutral for a few days or a week. Then, I get little spurts of positive feelings coming up, very much out of nowhere. And then the attraction solidifies and stays for a few months or so. It usually dies if nothing happens after a few months or I go through that process with someone else. But there's never a reason for it. At least not one that I'm conscious of. But my attractions are very strong.

16 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I must have come across as bitter in my post, but honestly i was just thinking of ways to innovate on pickup and figure out ways to increase skills quicker. Although I do believe that you can improve yourself into someone's heart, if you learn enough pickup. Attraction is a science after all.

I understand where your thought process is coming from, and I'm sure it's encouraging. I think that pick-up gurus tend to promote pick-up in that way, anyway. I can just tell you that (for me personally) I've never miraculously gotten attracted to a man that I was previously not attracted to. But I think of attraction as more of an art than a science. It's all about the subtle essence of that person, and not about what they do. So, even as someone who's into personal development, meeting a guy that's into personal development doesn't make me more likely to be attracted to him. 

20 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I would rather them say that they don't find me attractive. At least then I know its not something I said or a family problem or some other problem not related to attractiveness. You must have hacked my phone, because I girl said that to me after dating me for 3 weeks literally 3 days ago.  though she wouldn't have said that if I started pickup 3 years ago, because then my ego would have been attractive to her.

I understand. I suppose that I'm the same way in terms of what I prefer for me, if I were to put myself in the same situation. I hate hurting people's feelings though, so I do tend to sugar-coat things. 

22 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Again, if i did 3 years of pickup beforehand I would have definitely have gotten her. I can't do anything about it if i dont improve myself.

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm going to call b.s. on whoever told you this. Not that I'm saying that they're giving you b.s. on purpose. This is just a really random metric for attraction, and I've never met a woman (straight, bi, lesbian, etc.) who ever set up such particular rules for romantic interest. I think that she might be struggling to find out and come up with a reason why she isn't attracted to you, and came up with this rationalization for why not. But the problem is that there is no "why" or "why not".  It just is or isn't. It's not so much that women don't know what they want... it's that we generally don't know why we want it. And without the awareness that there is not rational "why", we struggle and fumble for reasons. 

This reminds me of the situation with my friend Joe and I. I was in a relationship with a guy named Jeff from the time I was 16 to the time I was 20. And I had known my friend Joe since I was 12, and he always had a crush on me. We even dated for a month way back in middle school. I was always very very mildly attracted to him, but not so much that I would want to pursue anything actively. So, when Jeff and I broke it off, Joe really wanted to spark something up with me. I told him that I wasn't really ready for a relationship, which was true. I had just gotten out of a 4 year relationship. I really wanted to be single for a while, and I didn't really feel that way for Joe. Then I met my current husband, and I really had the hots for him and found him irresistible. I couldn't have stopped myself if I wanted to. So, Joe was really very upset about this. He felt like he had waited for me and put in his time, and he wanted to know why not. And I had no reason to give him. I couldn't articulate it, and I just wanted him to feel better. I didn't want him to think that I found him ugly or something like that. The feelings just weren't there at the time. But I didn't have the self-awareness that I have now, so I just came up with a bunch of rationalizations. I didn't know how to articulate my feelings. 

[Emerald]

27 minutes ago, Toby said:

A major false assumption and also sales pitch in the pickup community is this: "the man can control the reaction of the woman". And then there are different ways the man should go about. Of course there are some things about appearance or mindset that have a positive or negative effect. And of course you can also hypnotize women. But if the woman is looking for a genuine connection which lasts longer than some initial rush/high many things won't work. There is either a connection there or not. You cannot force a connection or somehow control life. It doesn't work that way.

Well said. PUA gurus tend to use this as their sales pitch, but it's definitely not true of me or any other woman that I know. Genuine attractions happen organically. But it can't hurt to know some techniques. Being good at the human mating dance is a plus.

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

I understand where your thought process is coming from, and I'm sure it's encouraging. I think that pick-up gurus tend to promote pick-up in that way, anyway. I can just tell you that (for me personally) I've never miraculously gotten attracted to a man that I was previously not attracted to. But I think of attraction as more of an art than a science. It's all about the subtle essence of that person, and not about what they do. So, even as someone who's into personal development, meeting a guy that's into personal development doesn't make me more likely to be attracted to him. 

 

What pickup tends to do, from what i have seen others do, is change that subtle essence of that person. Their personality actually changes. Like when there are millions of videos out there called 'how to avoid the friend zone' for example, there has to be something to it.

It seems crazy to me that this attraction is somehow fixed and cannot be changed, like physical attraction. Because our brains are very fluid, doing personal development does change your personality.

The only thing it doesn't change is your intuition, or the 'inner voice', which if attraction was somehow related to higher consciousness, then that would be a problem to pickup.

Quote

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm going to call b.s. on whoever told you this. Not that I'm saying that they're giving you b.s. on purpose. This is just a really random metric for attraction, and I've never met a woman (straight, bi, lesbian, etc.) who ever set up such particular rules for romantic interest.

I didn't mean that they set up rules, I meant that with that girl, the reason why she didnt want a date with me over the phone was because I did something that turned her off, subconsciously. Either not being assertive enough, being too much of a nice guy, not showing enough aloofness, etc. And if I had 3 years under my belt, I definitely wouldn't have made those problems. And the attraction probably would have sparked organically. This is what most people in pickup believes and thinks, that it is possible to develop yourself so that you do spark a chemistry with someone, purely by learning pickup. 

[electroBeam]

@see_on_see actually you can get out of the friendzone. Some people do it. They invite the girl out somewhere after 1 year of not seeing her, act a little disinterested in her, and use every pickup technique they can perform, and because hes a changed man, she could get some chemistry going with him.

[Toby]

What are your goals? Do you want to get laid or do you want to find a relationship? It's actually very important to know because most pickup advice is aimed for short term success. Look at the "gurus" or your pickup friends. Are they really successful in relating to women over a long term or are they just successful in getting laid with some bag of tricks? Of course there is some good advice out there, for example Eckhart Tolle is recommended, David Deida and Osho. These are very good sources. But there is also a lot of BS. At least it was like that when I was involved in pickup 10 years ago.

[ElenaO]

21 hours ago, John Flores said:

@blazed True, from my experiences all women are shallow and if they are not shallow, they are shallow about being not shallow (for the sake of status, like marrying a guru). I have yet to meet a woman who loves and sees past this physical world. Probably 1/5000 woman truly match this. I have given up on finding the right person - I am too entrenched in arguing with God on how he runs this silly word to worry about women

I would have to argue that this is a rather shallow statement. 

[Toby]

10 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

Eckhart Tolle and Osho recommended for pick up advice, now I've seen it all  

It's true. But it's often used in the wrong context. But for example "the power of now" is highly recommended and it was like this even ten years ago.

[electroBeam]

28 minutes ago, Toby said:

What are your goals? Do you want to get laid or do you want to find a relationship? 

Definitely to have a really deep, fulfilling relationship. Being with someone who really genuinely cares for you, someone you can look after, someone you can express your genuine altruism to, etc.

But for me, and i think a lot of guys, girls that I'm attracted to in that way(cute vs hot) are 1 in 500 girls to me. So I gotta make sure I'm the best pickup king on the planet to ensure that when and if that girls comes along, I can definitely get her dating me. 

I've written privately to a bit of peeps on this forum, and they are all thinking the same as me^^ We aren't doing it because we like sex, or dont like relationships, we are doing it for experience. Infact, I don't really have a strong desire to have sex or date girls im not attracted to anyway.

 

And I know you can look up relationship advice from gurus, but they wont rake in the girl of your dreams.

[electroBeam]

@blazed sure but theoretically speaking you can change your ego into anything. I've somehow almost cured social anxiety and autism just from shadow work. And so many people on here change their personalities into something else that its crazy what you can do.

Theoretically speaking, there could be many differences between someone who got rejected, and someone who didnt and got a girl. These factors CAN be material assets, or physical attractiveness, but generally people agree that its 90% personality that gets the girl.

So if you can change yourself to morph your personality into the latter, you can theoretically most likely get the girl.

Yes this is drastically oversimplified, but when you say that there are some girls you just cannot get, and that PUA is a scam, you're implying that love is fuelled by some fixed, special, unchangeable aspect of ourselves that somehow makes us attractive to girls. That's not true at all, and infact you can completely change your personality to get nearly any girl you want theoretically. 

PUA is ingenious. Equivalently for a girl, its like putting on permanent makeup, your attraction is changed for the better, forever.

[Key Elements]

Have you thought of it this way? This is just a possibility, ok? The "right" gal could be looking at you because she likes your higher-self and likes who you are overall. That may be her intuition at the moment. But then, she sees you do pickup and thinks, "nevermind."

[Key Elements]

32 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

I could give a ton of other examples why knowing attraction and having pick up skills is essential. Especially for those guys that always had problems with girls and social anxiety.

I never said that pickup is wrong. It just sounds really complicated. I know a lot of people who met their significant other just because they worked on themselves and met along the journey. If you want to do pickup, it's your choice. I'm only sharing my experience. 

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, electroBeam said:

What pickup tends to do, from what i have seen others do, is change that subtle essence of that person. Their personality actually changes. Like when there are millions of videos out there called 'how to avoid the friend zone' for example, there has to be something to it.

It seems crazy to me that this attraction is somehow fixed and cannot be changed, like physical attraction. Because our brains are very fluid, doing personal development does change your personality.

Maybe if you knew someone at one point, didn't see them for years, and then came back, their feelings may change if you've changed that much. What I find though, is that people's subtle energy doesn't really change that much and my impressions of a person take even longer to change. So, even if a person changes their mindsets and personality, the people that you already know will continue to see you in the same light. So, with people you already know, the chances of getting out of the friend zone are VERY low. 

6 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I didn't mean that they set up rules, I meant that with that girl, the reason why she didnt want a date with me over the phone was because I did something that turned her off, subconsciously. Either not being assertive enough, being too much of a nice guy, not showing enough aloofness, etc. And if I had 3 years under my belt, I definitely wouldn't have made those problems. And the attraction probably would have sparked organically. This is what most people in pickup believes and thinks, that it is possible to develop yourself so that you do spark a chemistry with someone, purely by learning pickup. 

You're still thinking that it's because of something you did or did not do. And that if you just showed more dominant male traits, that she would definitely be with you. This is just not true. It might have been somewhat more likely to happen if you fully embodied these traits right away upon meeting her, but PUA isn't like a perfect technology. It mostly works on the level of the persona. So, if a woman is in touch with her intuition, she is unlikely to bite even if the outward personality changes. From the receiving end of PUA, it can be super obvious when someone is trying to do it to you. Plus, if she knows you more on a personal level, then she knows whether or not she's attracted to you based on your deeper personality traits. PUA relies quite a bit on more surface level techniques and techniques are easy to pick up on in a closer friendship. Now, in a casual social setting where you're meeting new people, like a club or party these traits can make you appear as being more interesting and attractive. First impressions are extremely important in attraction. So, here is where the utility of PUA comes in. So, it's not that PUA can't greatly increase your chances of being successful with someone. It absolutely can. But don't think of it as a perfect science that will work on every woman or even most women. It's an art. You might get one 'yes' for every five 'nos'. And that's pretty good. But don't fall for sales pitches, and expect that you can make any woman attracted to you through doing PUA. People are complex machines, that are predictable to an extent, but not perfectly predictable. 

[Toby]

What if a woman rejects a man, because she is attracted to him and would even have sex with him, but she also knows that her or his heart is not really involved? Maybe she knows better than wasting her / his time? This is not uncommon from my experience.

[Wafflemuffins]

Good job for trying. It must've been very hard.

As for the actual question I agree with a lot of the points made here. The one that resonates most with me is: she most likely has no freaking clue why she rejected you, and even if she does, she's not gonna give you a straight answer cuz she doesn't want to feel like a bitch for hurting your feelings. So you'll gain so much more in terms of personal development, if you're able to take the rejection with stride and confidence and move on. If you can work on accepting yourself after someone else rejected you? That's difficult, and quite meaningful.

 

[Emerald]

57 minutes ago, John Flores said:

People often don't know what's going on, on a supernal plane. 

 

If the NSA didn't hack actualized.org again and temporarily shut it down after my comment, I would have been happy to explain:

 

It's an innate part of the feminine energy to want to receive and be passive, while the masculine to be agressive and provide. This is not true all across the board, but is a generalization. The purpos of man is to correct these flaws. 

 

When people call me shallow and then other people like those comments, it pisses me off. It's like: you know nothing about what's going on behind the scenes and why or how we ar where in earth and your just pretending to know it all, while claiming anyone who insults you shallow. Pfft...Elona get off as administrator 

With all due respect, it's understandable that she called you shallow, as you just called her shallow without even knowing her. You did, in your previous post, project your ideas over about 3.5 billion people on the planet writing off their ability for humanity and virtue, and one of those 3.5 billion is her. This type of projection is the epitome of shallow acts because you ignore the nuances of reality for a two-dimensional idea that you cooked up in your own mind. So, it's not a matter of people not recognizing your depth of understanding regarding the masculine and feminine energies, it's you not recognizing the degree of your delusion, projection, and smallness. 

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, blazed said:

To be fair she didn't you say was shallow but that the statement was shallow.

It's just her opinion, on top of your opinion, it's all pretty groundless. Wouldn't worry about it so much.

You can only be offended if you have a weak mind that is susceptible to being offended.

Back to elementary basics, sticks and stones may break my bones...

Saw this today reminds me of internet arguements lol

I was not offended. I just wanted to point out to him that he was objectively being shallow. You can't fix a problem that you aren't aware of. 

[Emerald]

44 minutes ago, blazed said:

Did not say you was offended.

Also how do you know that in his reality and through his direct experience that he hasn't met a lot of shallow women?

Someone in North Korea might see reality completely different from you, who's to say they are wrong?

Alright Kelly Anne, this is gotten off the topic of the thread so I'm just going to quickly explain just a little bit to un-muddy the waters between ideas/projections and objective reality.  I understand that he may have come into contact with shallow women before and that he feels negatively about women because of this. But that doesn't mean that all women are shallow, or that it makes sense to blame all women for his negative feelings. So, when he is saying 4999/5000 women are shallow, then this is objectively the definition of projection. And it is objectively a falsehood to say this. No two ways about it. My saying that he's projecting is not an opinion. It's a fact. And since this is a site about developing deeper levels of awareness, I thought it was a good idea to point it out to him. But you seem to want to reinforce his delusions and projections by muddying the waters further with misplaced notions of relativism.

Also, when I say that he's being shallow, there is an interpretation there that could be called an opinion if we look at the connotation of the word shallow which tends to be negative. But if we look at the definition of shallow as being 'not deep.' Then his view on women is objectively shallow, because it reflects a shallow awareness of reality relative to women. He simply doesn't have a deep understanding, so I call his opinion shallow. So, this is also a fact. Not an opinion. 

So, you bring up the ideas that are widely believed in North Korea as an example for how relativistic things are. Truly, North Korea stands as an extreme example of how distorted one's views can get, when human beings aren't grounded in objective reality. There are such things as objective falsehoods that run through every cultural climate, some more than others. So, a large part of personal development, is to ground oneself in objective reality and let go of delusions. So, no more alternative facts please. Hehe!

[Emerald]

13 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Emerald Wilkins Words, words, words

Men are also shallow. The same idea. They are both shallow. I am saying that the notion that one is small and simply non existent is not seen by people. To meet someone who actually understands that each moment is eternal? That one's essence is God? That God is here to be served?

This is rare; I find it among the religious. The Muslims are the best. The most passion. The Jews are alright. 

This is still more projection and an avoidance of the fact that you were projecting in a previous post, through use of spiritual bypassing. 

13 minutes ago, John Flores said:

 

Shallowness is the inability to accept that you do not exist nor are you in existence in the face of God....existence automatically brings you out of existence, but when I speak to people (I mention women in particular, because I hope to marry one someday), I would like for her to realize that the only thing there is, is God.

 

There are different levels of "living with God". Complete humility is the sum total.

If you're aware that there is only one thing, and that one thing is God, then why do you assign so many value judgments to large groups of people? And why do you judge the state of the world? Is it not also God, and also you? You still seem to be dividing reality into fractions, which is the opposite of the realization of oneness. Also, if God is "here to be served", and everything is God, why do you judge God's creation which is also God? 

But if you want to continue the conversation further, you can PM me or create a new thread. It's against the forum rules to post off-topic things, so I try to avoid it. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Emerald Wilkins

[Emerald]

42 minutes ago, John Flores said:

Please don't call me delusional again. I don't like it and it pisses me off.

Sorry, I should specify. I didn't call you delusional as a fixed negative personality trait. I said you have delusions, as nearly everyone does. I too, have delusions related to other things. I really didn't mean any personal insult behind my messages, though I do get a little personal when people project upon women as I have some issues with feminine repression and this salts the past wounds that gave way to this repression. But my main purpose, was to point out that you're projecting, so that you can recognize the process and drop the projections. Often times, we get into mindsets that are based in self-deception, and we're not aware of it. 

[Shin]

7 hours ago, John Flores said:

@Emerald WilkinsPlease don't call me delusional again. I don't like it and it pisses me off.

 

You're very far away from the path if someone you can't even see, pisses you off.

The fact that she pisses you off is a good thing, you should see that as a warning sign that your ego is very active at the moment.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Shin