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Higher LOC person = higher value person?

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But does this also mean one can feel better than an other because of higher level of consciousness(LOC)?

When I see people who have bad eating habits, very unhealthy persons physically and metaphysically, I do feel compassion and I don't judge them because I understand them. But does open the door to the question, why would I sacrifice myself for them? They won't understand it anyway.

For example Leo said in his latest video that he wouldn't be friends with traumatic people because he values his time. On the one hand spiritual people say all is one and on the other hand we should also be smart about it I think. I'm confused about this topic though.

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Posted (edited)

There's no definite answer to this. I think it very much depends on the specific situation and context. Maybe you know the story with the guy who was injured and then as a result he doesn't have to go to war or something. So what is good, and what is bad....It's like that with the Universe... sometimes there are seemingly irrational, senseless sacrifices that must be made.

While none of that is up to you, you'll still have to keep trying to make the right decisions, and from your limited perspective it might look like sometimes you fail or make inconvenient, unnecessary sacrifices. Ultimately, that is what is the case, and so how wrong can it be, from God's pov?

 

The advice that you shouldn't be friends with toxic or low energy type of people is generally helpful and probably good for the masses, but i guess at a certain stage you can start being a bit more nuanced about this, too. It depends on the exact circumstances. 

Being afraid of interacting with "unconscious people" can turn into some really toxic behaviour as well, and you'll start to live in fear because you gotta keep the "evil ones" at a distance at all costs. That's just another ego game, and it's gonna backfire.

Edited by Judy2

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"Value" and "Worth" doesn't exist. They are illusions of the mind. 

Hierarchy of worth and value creates seperation and distortion.

Levels of Consciousness like the LOC system and Spiral Dynamics are also an illusion. But people use them as a tools in the world of duality to make sense of what is happening. But even these tools are illusions and not ultimately true.

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LOC is a silly and dangerous idea.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

LOC is a silly and dangerous idea.

Why do you say that? 

 


♡✸♡.

I'm sweet apple juice but don't you dare drink me. 

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7 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Why do you say that?

1) Consciousness is far too multi-dimensional to map with a linear set of numbers.

2) Guessing the LOC of others is prone to a lot of projection and error.

Consciousness cannot be reduced down to a number.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura You talk a lot about states of consciousness. Do you think there is also a problematic element to this view (same as above, you cannot quantify it because the "state" is all there is and cannot be compared to anything outside of it)?

Edited by Judy2

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3 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@Leo Gura You talk a lot about states of consciousness. Do you think there is also a problematic element to this view (same as above, you cannot quantify it because the "state" is all there is and cannot be compared to anything outside of it)?

I don't quantify states of consciousness though. Although there are higher and lower ones.

It is simply the case that states of consciousness are all there is to reality. You're always in some state and your state dictates absolutely everything about you and your life.

States of consciousness is not a linear nor quantitative notion.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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In your model, is the "state" the seer, or the seen? It's consciousness, right?

But then the only way you could tell that your state changed is if something in your experience (the content) changed as well. Like sensory impressions getting sharper or having different sensations in your body.

If the "state" was really referring to consciousness (aka formlessness) alone, then how could it notably change in its "density"?  All you'd ever see of that are the symptoms (on the level of form/content).

I have taken psychedelics and experienced intense changes in my "state", but wouldn't go as far as to say that this was some absolute parameter, given that the changes likely happened on the level of form. You said that yourself in one of your videos on how psychedelics work. That they change your experience and show how twisted it can get, but the realisation that can come from that is beyond the form and related to the "formlessness"underneath.

I'm genuinely curious though, so feel free to elaborate a bit more:)

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You're level of consciousness doesn't matter.... ignorant fools... xD 

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3 hours ago, Judy2 said:

In your model, is the "state" the seer, or the seen? It's consciousness, right?

But then the only way you could tell that your state changed is if something in your experience (the content) changed as well. Like sensory impressions getting sharper or having different sensations in your body.

If the "state" was really referring to consciousness (aka formlessness) alone, then how could it notably change in its "density"?  All you'd ever see of that are the symptoms (on the level of form/content).

I have taken psychedelics and experienced intense changes in my "state", but wouldn't go as far as to say that this was some absolute parameter, given that the changes likely happened on the level of form. You said that yourself in one of your videos on how psychedelics work. That they change your experience and show how twisted it can get, but the realisation that can come from that is beyond the form and related to the "formlessness"underneath.

I'm genuinely curious though, so feel free to elaborate a bit more:)

There is no difference between seer and seen.

There is also no difference between form and formlessness.

What changes is consciousness increases. Consciousness cannot be reduced to formlessness nor a change in form, consciousness is a holistic self-grasping, self-recognition capacity. There is no substitute for it and it cannot be reduced to any set of distinctions or forms in the same way that you will never find a forest by looking for it among the trees.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 hour ago, AuroraDream said:

You're level of consciousness doesn't matter.... ignorant fools... xD 

Pipe down, silly human.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no difference between seer and seen.

There is also no difference between form and formlessness.

Sure. But for the purpose of talking about your definition of a state, i thought it was helpful to consider this.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What changes is consciousness increases. Consciousness cannot be reduced to formlessness nor a change in form, consciousness is a holistic self-grasping, self-recognition capacity. There is no substitute for it and it cannot be reduced to any set of distinctions or forms in the same way that you will never find a forest by looking for it among the trees.

Ok thanks, that does make sense.

But isn't this the point where we should also throw the idea of a state out the window?

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13 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

Sure. But for the purpose of talking about your definition of a state, i thought it was helpful to consider this.

How so?

State is all there is. There is no body to whom the state is happening, other than You/God. You/God ARE state.

Quote

Ok thanks, that does make sense.

But isn't this the point where we should also throw the idea of a state out the window?

Why?

You are always in some state and your state changes depending on the situation: asleep, exhausted, sick, drunk, horny, meditating, suffering, etc.

It's a very simple, practical, and useful idea. Don't over think it. Changing your state is the key to waking up.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Consciousness is far too multi-dimensional to map with a linear set of numbers.

2) Guessing the LOC of others is prone to a lot of projection and error.

Consciousness cannot be reduced down to a number.

So, by disavowing LOC, you are saying you don't agree with the 0 - 1000 style metric?

How about if OP was talking about spiral dynamics stages re consciousness. I.e. a stage yellow person being more valuable than a stage blue person.

I personally think it sounds somewhat fascist, re answering OP's question in the affirmative.

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27 minutes ago, Ulax said:

So, by disavowing LOC, you are saying you don't agree with the 0 - 1000 style metric?

Not only do I disagree with it, I find it a joke.

Quote

How about if OP was talking about spiral dynamics stages re consciousness. I.e. a stage yellow person being more valuable than a stage blue person.

I personally think it sounds somewhat fascist, re answering OP's question in the affirmative.

A Stage Yellow person isn't more valuable than Blue, just more developed and self-aware.

Value is a very relative notion. The issue there is, what are your values?

If you value development and self-awareness, then Yellow is more valuable, according to you.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

Hmm, I like the LOC idea from the books. It's a finite model, I will read a few more of Davids books and then throw it away.

It's just like an organizing scheme. Though the way he made it is iffy.

Edited by Thought Art

"Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

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27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not only do I disagree with it, I find it a joke.

Then why do you have it on your booklist?

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6 minutes ago, Bandman said:

Then why do you have it on your booklist?

As I have said, if I had to agree with everything in a book in order to recommend it, I would have zero books to recommend.

LOC is not the reason I recommend those books.

I expect you to be able to read books critically, with independent judgment. Just because I share some resource does not mean everything in that resource is something you should adopt without critical thinking.

I deliberately share many diverse and divergent perspectives as part of my approach to understanding reality. I've talked about this in past epistemology videos. Not all of these perspectives are going to align. There will be many contradictions. And your job is to hold all that in your mind at once without getting lost in ideology.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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