IamYou

God didn't create itself

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Some say God created itself. Logically this is false. 

The source didn't choose to give birth to itself.

Giving birth is only possible for those who are alive.

To give birth to oneself means to be dead and then to become alive by choice.

But if one is dead then one can't give birth so there is no option to give birth to itself.

So God must be uncreated. Meaning it has no choice but to exist unless it can commit suicide. 

It can give birth to stuff. That is called "God's creation".

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

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@IamYou if reality is non-dual - which you can become directly conscious of - then it has to create itself - in the ultimate paradox.   You have to realize that paradox is the fabric of Infinity or reality and logic is content held within Infinity- it is not the structure.   The structure is boundless and thus is prior to logic.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Inliytened1 No if non-duality is real then actuality is a necessity, and of want neither of god nor its power to create itself.

 

If reality is non-dual then god as inevitably conceptual in communication is void of all meaning that is not also present without that concept,

 

If non duality is real than our descriptions of a god owed a definition is false, if god is owed no definition that is not equal in truth value its referent then the claim "it has to create itself" is vacuous, empty, meaningless, absurd, silly, ambiguous and corrupted.


"We do not need to be shoemakers to know if our shoes fit, and just as little have we any need to be professionals to acquire knowledge of matters of universal interest."  -Hegel

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something like that the absence of limits makes everything potential to be, that is to say that existence exists, and is creating itself now. only that now is always, since what is not now is non-existence, and that does not exist. there is only you, right now, it is an instant that has no limits, so it is eternal

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44 minutes ago, IamYou said:

Logically this is false.

nerd-face-emoji-clever-emoticon-with-glasses-geek-or-student-700-192037364.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't help myself hahahahah.

45 minutes ago, IamYou said:

Thoughts?

Your thinking and our thoughts are pointless. Seek what is the case.

But I'll indulge you and say this:

  • "God didn't create itself" (or "did") implies a past and a logical span of time
  • Reality, God is Self-Creating -- right now. You can realize this. Because you ARE this Self-Creating God.
  • You are too wrapped up in logic. Consider the possibility that the limits of your imagination aren't the limits of reality.
  • God (=Reality) can't commit suicide, can't be dead, can't "become alive", it is Life itself.

You don't have to like everyone. You just have to love them.

This account is no longer active. New account is @Sincerity

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@Breakingthewall In your experience you aren't creating yourself right? You simply exist without any effort.  

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@Cykaaaa So you think you are giving birth to yourself right now or are you already alive?

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, Reciprocality said:

@Inliytened1 No if non-duality is real then actuality is a necessity, and of want neither of god nor its power to create itself.

 

If reality is non-dual then god as inevitably conceptual in communication is void of all meaning that is not also present without that concept,

 

If non duality is real than our descriptions of a god owed a definition is false, if god is owed no definition that is not equal in truth value its referent then the claim "it has to create itself" is vacuous, empty, meaningless, absurd, silly, ambiguous and corrupted.

God created logic, all logic is relative. What you don't understand is this. If God is Ultimate Truth, then whatever God decides is true. God created logic, thus God supercedes logic and cannot be bound by it. This means God is illogical, cannot be understood by logic. So stop trying to logic God...or keep doing it for all eternity if you want lol. That is actually a path to awakening so you know what....keep doing it. You will eventually figure it out....might take a couple life times.

Edited by Razard86

The same strength, the same level of desire it takes to change your life, is the same strength, the same level of desire it takes to end your life. Notice you are headed towards one or the other. - Razard86

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21 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

thus

you have to love it


"We do not need to be shoemakers to know if our shoes fit, and just as little have we any need to be professionals to acquire knowledge of matters of universal interest."  -Hegel

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, IamYou said:

Giving birth is only possible for those who are alive.

Alive/dead aren't useful distinctions here.  Consciousness is immortal.  Birth is a belief.

 

2 hours ago, IamYou said:

Some say God created itself. Logically this is false. 

The source didn't choose to give birth to itself.

Creation means using things to create new things.  But we're talking about source here, and source couldn't have been created.  Anything that was created can't be source.

Source/God doesn't need anything like that.  There being a process, a beginning, an end, are all human concepts/beliefs.  God isn't human, and you can't understand it with conventional human/Blue logic.  Take away your assumptions about reality, and suddenly concepts of no time, no process, no structure, no birth, no death, etc. become simple.  God/infinity was always there.  You won't find it on a timescale.

 

Edited by thisintegrated

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54 minutes ago, IamYou said:

@Cykaaaa So you think you are giving birth to yourself right now or are you already alive?

You are Life itself.

Take on the work of shedding your preconceived ideas and quite importantly for you I'd say - this attachment to logic and binary either or thinking, and realize the truth for yourself.


You don't have to like everyone. You just have to love them.

This account is no longer active. New account is @Sincerity

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1 hour ago, IamYou said:

@Inliytened1 It doesn't have to create itself if its uncreated.

Creation and uncreation is a duality, yes. But when we say it created itself it doesn't mean it dualistically had to think about it then create itself (like the hand drawing itself)....I mean, it IS that but prior to time, space or even thought- it doesn't work in a linear fashion like the finite mind would.   Infinity doesn't require thought.   Now that's a mind fuck 😀  but that is omniscience.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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It sounds like you're hung up on a  biological perspective of birth and death.

Just one random example --- what if you could give birth to yourself by turning yourself inside out? You create something that looks and acts entirely different, but you're still there alive on the inside. 1 becomes 2, but also technically still 1.

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Posted (edited)

Creation and non-existence are duality. 
 

It’s a tricky thing to talk about. 
 

God is all there is. God is prior to time or creation.

God created itself, because God transcends and includes itself, existed prior to itself, is completely eternal, is infinite paradox. 
 

I remember a definition given by Leo is “God is the thing that created itself” 
 

God is a verb and a noun. God is Godding. 
 

OP has a point, how can eternity have a beginning? How can something existed for ever have a beginning? How can is choose to create and be one way over another way? Infinite intelligence. 
 

infinity 

“The Tao can be spoken is not the eternal Tao” - Lao Tzu 

This is an area I need to contemplate more and have more direct experiences of. I don’t know. 
 

Technically, the universe was created… Right now. 
 

Everything Now!

Edited by Thought Art

"I would rather be wrong, than live in the shadow of your song. Now my mind is open wide, and now I'm ready to Star(t)!" - Arcade Fire "Ready to Start"

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@IamYou You speak of things you clearly aren't conscious of.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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