How would you define evil?

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

evil is selfishness. the good, selflessness. we are all evil to some extent, even Jesus Christ. Well, when he decided to let himself be crucified for the good of others, no. evil excludes, and you need evil to be you, since to be you, you have to exclude what is not you. if you don't, you will dissolve and disappear. the basis of the existence of "things" is evil. even a plant has evilness, it competes, it fights to be itself. but her "goodness" is far superior, it is selfless, it just is. in humans, the tendency to evil is enormous. I as opposed to what is not me. this degenerates to crazy levels, to enjoying the suffering of others, to pure destruction. total evil, only humans have that ability. total unhappiness.

agree with these sentiments

maybe evil is simply resisting death ... jesus did not resist death however ... when the time came he sweated tears of blood but said your will be done ... so to be non evil perhaps we need to stare down death every day every moment ... god is indifferent to death, one dream is as perfect as another

 

[GreenWoods]

Evil is causing unnecessary suffering to others.

 

 

[GreenWoods]

We can't create a loving society with nonduality. 

For that, compassion is required, which comes from applying love in a relative way.

Nondual love is not healthy for human society. Here is why:

19 hours ago, gettoefl said:

fighting what is

Fighting torture is evil?

19 hours ago, gettoefl said:

worshiping the ever unfolding what is, by contrast, is love

Worshipping torture is love?

 

To create a loving society we actually need to do the opposite.

Fighting part of "what is" (all the suffering in the world).

And worshipping "what is not" (a potential future full of love and happiness for all).

 

It's interesting, the definitions of evil from a practical vs a nondual perspective are basically opposite.

 

 

@gettoeflI'm not addressing you specifically. What you wrote is just the perfect representation of hardcore nonduality.

Edited April 30, 2022 by GreenWoods

[Chrisd]

It's crossing boundaries without regard for the other person.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

so to be non evil perhaps we need to stare down death every day every moment

12 hours ago, Aleister Crowleyy said:

 

The thing is, why we don't want to be evil? Or less evil as is possible? Because we realized that "i" and the other are the same, so to have a evil behavior is to damage ourselves. So, more evilness = more unhappiness. Some level of evilness, and unhappiness, is unavoidable. total happiness is not being an individual, and we are and we want to remain so. but you realize that the more selfish you are, the more separation you create between you and what is not you, the more unhappy you will be. more isolated, closed to pure joy, to love. so you see that selfish behavior, which seems very smart and practical, is stupid, it leads to disaster, to something much worse than death that it is better not to go through: to hell. Idiots go to hell, smart people go to heaven.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

3 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

We can't create a loving society with nonduality. 

For that, compassion is required, which comes from applying love in a relative way.

Nondual love is not healthy for human society. Here is why:

Fighting torture is evil?

Worshipping torture is love?

 

To create a loving society we actually need to do the opposite.

Fighting part of "what is" (all the suffering in the world).

And worshipping "what is not" (a potential future full of love and happiness for all).

 

It's interesting, the definitions of evil from a practical vs a nondual perspective are basically opposite.

 

 

@gettoeflI'm not addressing you specifically. What you wrote is just the perfect representation of hardcore nonduality.

every masochist loves a bit of torture, bring it on ... maybe you don't love it but then you are selfishly biased towards your preferences and survival ... your truth is not everyone's truth

Edited April 30, 2022 by gettoefl

[binder]

Its more difficult to label that in a fantasy world. Here on earth we are all Humans so its easier to define things as good and evil as we can mostly relate to it. Though its still a topic of debate.  In a fantasy setting where humans are just one of many races and factions are made of of different races what one side or one race may view as the absolute most evil thing possible, may not be such to the other faction or races, and both can be “correct” in their thinking.

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thing is, why we don't want to be evil? Or less evil as is possible? Because we realized that "i" and the other are the same, so to have a evil behavior is to damage ourselves. So, more evilness = more unhappiness. Some level of evilness, and unhappiness, is unavoidable. total happiness is not being an individual, and we are and we want to remain so. but you realize that the more selfish you are, the more separation you create between you and what is not you, the more unhappy you will be. more isolated, closed to pure joy, to love. so you see that selfish behavior, which seems very smart and practical, is stupid, it leads to disaster, to something much worse than death that it is better not to go through: to hell. Idiots go to hell, smart people go to heaven.

 

all well and good but the flaw is it requires two people to tango and realize it ... if one is selfish and other is selfless the selfless one won't live a long life ... so it comes back to the point of being able to embrace death

or not

Edited April 30, 2022 by gettoefl

[Chrisd]

20 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

a lot of questions can be answered by just having faith in the universe. it knows what its doing so dont question it 

Don't you question my questions

[Reciprocality]

What do you expect finding contextualizing evil that you do not find in what you call evil?

Why do you expect to find the essence of evil disjunctively?

 

Why is it not in your evil intentions themselves that you learn what it is? Why is it not in the emergence itself of opposites that it naturally forms? Why make a mystery out of it?

It is impossible to not discover evil trough honesty.

[lmfao]

Quote

On the contrary, Dionysius says (Div. Nom. iv), "Evil is neither a being nor a good." 

I answer that, One opposite is known through the other, as darkness is known through light. Hence also what evil is must be known from the nature of good. Now, we have said above that good is everything appetible; and thus, since every nature desires its own being and its own perfection, it must be said also that the being and the perfection of any nature is good. Hence it cannot be that evil signifies being, or any form or nature. Therefore it must be that by the name of evil is signified the absence of good. And this is what is meant by saying that "evil is neither a being nor a good." For since being, as such, is good, the absence of one implies the absence of the other.

So here it's something like "evil doesn't exist, but it's precisely its nonexistence that makes it evil"
--
Another idea could be that enjoying the suffering of others is "evil".

And finding ways to turn your enjoyment of other people's suffering into a moral position would be what we call "justice". In this way then, "justice" is the primary way that evil replicates in our species. Believing in some sort of retribution or balance which entails creating evil. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by lmfao

[Galyna]

@Preety_India Evel is the idea of separation, all your suffering stems from the idea that there are subject-object relations, when this idea is dissolved, there are no evil and good, because it is a duality. All is one and perfect as is. 

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

every masochist loves a bit of torture, bring it on ... 

 

... your truth is not everyone's truth

Well, if someone desires torture then that person can have it. 

I should have written "fighting involuntary suffering" instead of "fighting torture".

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

 ... maybe you don't love it but then you are selfishly biased towards your preferences and survival

Of course. 

[gettoefl]

13 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

 

I should have written "fighting involuntary suffering" instead of "fighting torture".

 

whether you volunteer or not matters not, suffering is actually for your good, it is a messenger telling you not to get attached to a body

there is no need to fight what is, you could perhaps look at the 4 noble truths for how to overcome it instead

fighting is you playing god

Edited April 30, 2022 by gettoefl

[gettoefl]

27 minutes ago, Galyna said:

@Preety_India Evel is the idea of separation, all your suffering stems from the idea that there are subject-object relations, when this idea is dissolved, there are no evil and good, because it is a duality. All is one and perfect as is. 

true in the absolute sense yes but if you are the only one in your life doing it, you will get killed off pretty quick

so having walls on one's house is plainly a necessary evil

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

all well and good but the flaw is it requires two people to tango and realize it ... if one is selfish and other is selfless the selfless one won't live a long life ... so it comes back to the point of being able to embrace death

or not

Yeah , if you are surrounded of really selfish people the thing is difficult. Returning to Christ, turn the other cheek, the kingdom of heaven belongs to the meek, blabla. The reality is that if you are surrounded by evil, it will penetrate you and you will be lost. only some saint could be selfless. in highly selfish societies, which are almost all of them, most of us end up in hell and then getting out of it is difficult, that is what we are doing now I think 

There also seem to be people who feel quite comfortable being very selfish and others who find it hellish. They are the last ones who undertake a search to get out of the labyrinth in which they have been gradually inserted. go undoing each mark that has made you defensive, separated, but at the same time we don't want to feel defenseless, we never want to turn the other cheek. I guess it's possible because we live in a fairly fair society. if we were slaves or something, it would be difficult

Edited April 30, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

evil is selfishness. 

This is correct.  They say the ego is the devil.  As the ego wants to do "good" for itself, this may ultimately negatively impact others which will consider this "evil" because it impacts their survival.  Good and evil all boil down to survival.  When one self survives at an expense of others it will be considered evil by the others.  Or when one attempts to pleasure themselves at the expense of their own survival they will be doing "evil" to themselves in this case.  

[GreenWoods]

5 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

, it is a messenger telling you not to get attached to a body

What is objectively bad about being attached to a body?

Some people desire formlessness, others desire physcality, it's all relative.

7 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

 you could perhaps look at the 4 noble truths for how to overcome it instead

Overcoming suffering by detaching from your desire not to suffer?

But what is objectively better with that option vs the option of removing suffering and and achieving your desires? Most people would prefer the latter.

And both options are about desires. The first option is the desire to have no desires. So in some sense it's still the same game that is being played.

And whether you are even able to overcome suffering with buddhist techniques depends on how intense the suffering is. If you multiply torture by 1000, then not even Buddha could surrender to that and would suffer. 

[Galyna]

24 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

if you are the only one

You are the One, there is no IF!

Kinda like you are the main hero in the movie which is about you, you cannot die, my Friend  

[r0ckyreed]

Evil doesn’t exist. Evil isn’t the absence of love. Evil is love such that you cannot call it evil. A rock isn’t evil. A hand isn’t evil. A knife isn’t evil. A human shooting a gun at a rock isn’t evil. A bird eating a snake isn’t evil. A human eating a bird isn’t evil. A human eating another human isn’t evil.

The location of evil is in your mind.  Evil is always an abstract concept for the benefit of your survival. Notice how emotional you are and get on this topic. What makes killing an animal good and a human evil? What is wrong with cannibalism? If you are honest and if you wake up, you will see there is nothing wrong with the world. Evil is the belief there is something wrong when there really isn’t.

Evil doesn’t exist because evil is the perception of wrongness in the world when such a thing doesn’t even exist. 

If the earth blew up tomorrow, it would be insignificant to the vast infinite universe. 

Thanos murdered half of all life out of love.

As long as you perceive evil in the world, you will never awaken to experience the infinite beauty and love of existence. The concept and perception of evil is your obstacle, your ultimate gateless gate that needs to be deconstructed as part of your journey to awaken from this dream.

Edited April 30, 2022 by r0ckyreed