How can one trust the insights received from man made chemicals?

[evolving55555]

Leo had posted this video about 5-MeO-MALT and I asked a question in the comment.

My question: Does 5-MeO-MALT come from a plant?
Leo's answer: Nope, plants are overrated.

So my question is how can one trust the insights or epiphanies received while on man-made chemicals? It's easier for me to trust substances that come from plants or natural sources but I don't know about man-made chemicals.

[Yarco]

How can you trust insights or epiphanies received from plant chemicals? Why does the fact it's more "natural" make it more real or accurate?

Go lick a toad if it makes you feel better

[Preety_India]

 

 

[Loba]

I don't think you can fully trust other people's trip reports, because they become hear-say, you have to have all spiritual awakenings rooted in personal direct experience.  So, I wouldn't worry so much about that, the only thing you have to focus on is your own journey.

Truth has a certain flavour to it, where/when it arises, you Know.

If you prefer to find answers with plants and something tells you that man made chemicals are not for your path, then follow that.  That's your intuition.  If you are curious and want to try something mad made, do that.

The best way to learn to trust your intuition is to write a lot, and to trust yourself.

This is one of the biggest things people need to learn to do on the path is to follow their own intuition.

There's a path of "feeling" that you can take, where if it "feels off", write about it, figure out where that is coming from and if it is just paranoia or if there's something to it.  You can gain beautiful spiritual insights from plants, and from man-made chemicals, and the best way to trust the insights is to have them.

And you know, sometimes they are wrong... or they evolve over time, you know?  One way to know is that there is a sense of clarity; if there is Love in the awakening is a big one.  Imo, writing is the best way to keep track, because you can go over later and "feel" for the truth.

The way I got to my first awakenings was doing depth psychology on myself, and it only took two or three months to obtain the awakening.  What I did is automatic writing, and I just followed that intuition like I had nothing left in the world - and just kept going until I got to the bottom, and there was God.

It was like this: 

"Why am I unable to trust my own insights? 

What caused this in my environment that I am trusting other people over myself? 

Where do I need to look?

What does awakening mean to me?"

And then whatever lectures, books, teachers, pictures, videos, experiences you can find to help you answer that, and what will happen is that the questions will get deeper, more profound, and it just keeps going until you find the Truth.  What will happen is that there won't be anything left to uncover, and so the Truth will just.... Be.  But the difference is is that you are directing the direction yourself, instead of following anyone - it's a deep dive into who you are.  When you do this, you uncover and also clear off any residue that may prevent you from seeing your True self.

Each person is going to have different pieces of the puzzle, and a unique path, just for them.  We can come together to discuss awakenings, to help one another, but ultimately you'll just have to trust yourself that you have the inherent ability to understand.  And you do.

How it feels when you find your soul and it speaks to you:

Hey, what's your name?
'Cause I need to know

I've been high and I've been low
Far beyond and far below
Never seen you before
If I die before I wake
Promise me you'll remember me tomorrow

'Cause I'll remember you
I'll remember you

How to find the soul aka your spiritual compass. ^  (Turquoise/Coral material)

Edited March 6, 2022 by Loba

[Javfly33]

They are not man-made chemicals. The human just discover the combinations of molecules to produce such a substance. But it's "already there" before any human discovers it.

Don´t see it as human engineering, see it as alchemy.

 

[Gesundheit2]

I generally don't let any chemicals enter my body unless they're absolutely necessary. That includes even caffeine and all other "basic" chemicals for most people. I think that's the main reason why my health is great overall.

As for your question, you can't really trust any insights whether they come from chemicals or plants or anything else, basically. But I don't see any more legitimacy for natural plants over man-made chemicals even for normal medication uses. Plants don't have the same efficacy as man-made chemicals because they're not as potent, and they have a lot more side effects. The thing about nature is that it doesn't produce very nuanced substances for our very specific needs. Most natural products come with a variety of substances that are pretty much irrelevant and have no practical use (which produces side effects).

[Leo Gura]

But Leo, How can you trust the carbon atoms in your brain???!

Lol

[Matthew85]

@evolving55555 I have wondered about this as well. Leo said something that really stuck with me. Your mind is never in a "sober" state. I never really thought about that way til he said that, but it's true. Our brains are continually under the influence of a mix of different chemicals and neurotransmitters. Also, all these psychedelics and spiritual practices are just imagined chains of causation we create to explain having insights anyway.

One barometer I always check in with is my own inner guidance and intuition. For me when something is true, it resonates as true in my body, it's something I can feel. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Matthew85

[Carl-Richard]

Do you trust cyanide?

[Leo Gura]

Funny enough cyanide is found in plants.

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Funny enough cyanide is found in plants.

That's my point

[Jodistrict]

Plants can still outdo anything invented by man.  People are comparing the synthetics to cultivated plants.  But in wild nature there are thousands of varieties.   For example, there are many different types of Ayahuasca in the Amazon.   Servers have to go deep into the jungle to find “Black Ayahuasca” which comes from vines over 100 years old.  Black Ayahuasca is several orders of magnitude more powerful than anything served in the Western retreats.  Most of the plants in the jungles used by Shamen have never been heard of in the West.  The Shaman I go to told me about plants that teach you lucid dreaming, plants that put in you in a delirium and make you forget your identity, and plants that paralyze you for two days and reset your bones.  There is stuff out there that scientists have never dreamed of.        

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jodistrict

[Leo Gura]

Nothing will awaken you like synthetic 5-MeO-DMT.

Watch out for that naturalistic fallacy.

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Nothing will awaken you like synthetic 5-MeO-DMT.

Watch out for that naturalistic fallacy.

Bufo Alvarius works for me.  The toads are fully respected and asked permission to take the medicine.  They are given a massage to relax them before extraction and then released.  

[Gesundheit2]

There's living rats and there's fried chickens.

[BipolarGrowth]

How can you trust the insights provided by a man-made technique like meditation? 

[Javfly33]

43 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

How can you trust the insights provided by a man-made technique like meditation? 

☝️???

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

The toads are fully respected and asked permission to take the medicine.  They are given a massage to relax them before extraction

Lol

[Javfly33]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

They are asked permission Leo, look, cant you hear them saying "Yes" clearly? ?

[Cathal]

@Jodistrict LMAO