Leo featured in suicide cult article

[mandyjw]

@Danioover9000

Definition of cult

1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 2)also : its body of adherents the voodoo cult a satanic cult

2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

b: the object of such devotion

c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion the singer's cult of fans The film has a cult following.

3: a system of religious beliefs and ritualalso : its body of adherentsthe cult of Apollo

4: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

5: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

 

It's a cult. Especially when you are being dismissed for using the dictionary to define what a cult is. That's just a cult in denial that it's a cult. Of course a cult can't deny that it's a cult, because there is no "cult", really, there are just people believing stuff. And apparently cults/groups where people believe the same stuff. When that stuff becomes destructive, we examine.

It's destructive. That's what I'm saying. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by mandyjw

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Manusia said:

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?

Your mind is in a finite state right now so you have cut off access to yourself from doing that otherwise whole dream would collapse and dissolve 

[Manusia]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Your mind is in a finite state right now so you have cut off access to yourself from doing that otherwise whole dream would collapse and dissolve 

But I am right now consciously typing and manipulate for what I am want to type, which is it is... reality. 

[RMQualtrough]

32 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I’m here right now ?

I’ve  definitely been in low conscious states and higher conscious states 

some people are more awake than others

some people are more skilled than others

some people are more educated than others

its part of life 

different teachers have different goals 

I don’t know who is most awake but it’s obvious to me that different paths have different results ?

Mira probably not linear

God realization is a pretty big awakening and lots of teachers don’t teach this

and people get lost in verbal spiritual dirhea and concepts and dogmas 

And of course this is all taking place at a relative level. Everyone and everything is of course completely, absolutely, ultimately equivalent.

And then you end up with a bunch of leaves debating which of them is most like the tree. Ha ha. One leaf says "I'M MORE TREE (AWAKE)!" and another is like "no I am!" There's just tree.

Relaively, Rupert Spira is he best teacher to help leaves recognize the tree that they are. Leo's Actualized Clips tend to be better than the whole sermons IMO. Very very good clip recently about identifying with the impermanent (e.g. a self) vs the deathlessness of the totality of existence as a singular unit.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Manusia said:

But I am right now consciously typing and manipulate for what I am want to type, which is it is... reality. 

Yeah I can get a cup of coffee

I thought you meant at the higher levels of imagination where the dream is being formulated.

[RMQualtrough]

5 minutes ago, Manusia said:

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?

This whole control idea is madness I think... It doesn't make logical sense, but also not sense even relatively if you really explore what is happening within your own "choices". Even in your lucid dreams at night where you "control" the dream. If you really explore that, see where precisely the choice appears, and then what chose that the choice should appear.

There is definitely a sentience to reality. See: we are sentient. But not only us, look at "unconscious" living things, like plants. There is an intelligence to plants in elements like recognition of light, growing towards the light etc.

Sentience and intelligence does not really equate to control or manipulation. The "unfolding" of creation all by itself, limitless etc. that seems a much better way to phrase it. As Leo did phrase it in a recent video... Riding the wave of limitless unstoppable creation...

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica if you are referring to this quote by Leo:

"I can help you to discover that you are God. When you do realize that you are God, this will instantaneously solve every single problem in your life, not only that but it will heal you, it will heal you of every disease and problem that you have"

Yes when I was referring to that quote which I did by posting that exact quote in this thread, then I was indeed referring to that quote... excellent work Holmes.

41 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

As I pointed out before enlightenment does not permanently heal you of any illnesses you had previously. 

Firstly the quote makes no mention of enlightenment, so lets stick with the words that are already there rather than muddying the waters. Secondly we already talked about what kind of healing might be possible within such altered states (trauma, psychological, emotional). Thirdly whether or not such changes are permanent was not ever discussed, this is something you seem to be inserting in for some reason.

If we are talking about an illness caused by trauma then I see no reason why it could not be permanently resolved within an altered state. This is the basis for most traditional shamanism of which I have some amount of experience, so I do not think this statement is accurate.

47 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

While in a state of God Consciousness you will not have any ailments. But on returning to your ego those illnesses may persist.

Yes while in an altered state then you might not IN THAT MOMENT perceive that you have any ailments, and yes those ailments might return if they were not resolved within the state as discussed previously in regard to trauma.

54 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It does give you access to Infinite inteligence and can help with clearing up problems in your life.  

"Infinite intelligence" would be a fairly bold claim, particularly coming from yourself. If what you are saying is that altered states can help one deal with problems, then sure - and again this would be an extension of the above trauma/psychological/emotional discussion.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

If he clarified this already then we can put this to rest. 

He clarified that he misspoke when making this claim, but realistically that was blatantly fucking obvious to anyone - all I did was point this out. If you could just get over it that sometimes Leo makes mistakes, then this whole thing would have been laid to rest two years ago. As I have said many times - is it really that hard?

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I was more interested in your other criticism

Which one? You seemed to get rather obsessed on the "healing" claims, but I am more than happy to unpack any other of my criticisms for you.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think Leo is going to be making some changes and putting the deeper content behind a pay wall.  But we make it very clear here that spirituality is dangerous- and we have tons of disclaimers. If people want to get into spirituality we do tell them here that it is serious stuff and to know what they are getting themselves into.   And it's also why Leo is shutting down the solipsism threads because most people are not ready for this when they first step into spirituality.  They have to start at the basic level.

I think you are straw manning again. I have never been particularly critical about any of this stuff and think putting "serious stuff" behind a paywall is not a bad idea, because it requires some commitment from the user. I also think its commendable that Leo did what he thought was best in regard to the solipsism video, not necessarily because of the content (I haven't seen it...yet, and yes I do have a copy), but just that it shows some integrity to his own vision for his channel.

And of course I agree that beginners need to be onboarded at a controlled pace. This is true of any spiritual practice from shamanism to martial arts.

[Manusia]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I thought you meant at the higher levels of imagination where the dream is being formulated.

When you say about formula, I reminded about what conversation that me and my friends have. She and he have acess to know intuitively about this exact realtive reality/earth reality what the formula is. Did you ever found something that similiar to this?

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

 

Firstly the quote makes no mention of enlightenment, .
 

Well, by discovering God I think he meant enlightenment or awakening.  

 

22 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

If we are talking about an illness caused by trauma then I see no reason why it could not be permanently resolved within an altered state. This is the basis for most traditional shamanism of which I have some amount of experience, so I do not think this statement is accurate.

 

Yes it certainly is possible.   But I'm just saying that enlightenment itself is not necessarily going to do that.  I know with my awakening however it greatly reduced symptoms of OCD which I suffer from.  

As for infinite inteligence- yes its a bold claim but your mind does open tremendously in an altered state as you may know. and you may gain additional insight and clarity into yourself that before had been closed off. 

Yeah so I guess what were some of your other criticisms?  

Oh, and yes I do know Leo makes mistakes.  We are all human here.  

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Thought Art

   I think he meant with calling it elitist, is that there are barriers of entry to accessing the necessary psychedelics, at volume and at certain levels of intensity, that it's not easy to go through wothout having the extra cash for it,because it depends on your value system, cognitive and moral development, personality traits,states of being and general and specific life experiences and genetics that will act sometimes as barriers of entry.

   For example, if your value system is more stage blue and less stage orange, have an American cultural upbringing, worldview of a boomer, cognitively cllose minded in general, morally an absolutist, sees world more in binaries, is too habituated with normal states of being, has limited emotional range, has few general and specific life experiences outside of the USA, is middle to low class, has a wife and children to look after, intimacy problems, too busy at work, a few hard core addictions and several or so soft addictions to work through, has a hobby, health and fitness declining and needs attention, less frey matter in brain to develop more open mindedness, and has low intrapersonal intelligence to be aware of a potential ideological view of spirituality and psychedelics, well it becomes already an uphill battle for such a person to do the work needed.

Hmm, well watching some free videos, and spending 30 bucks on some 5meo are a pretty sweet deal. 
 

Vs, say having money to take time off work for a 10 day retreat to meditate or go to Peru. 
 

There’s no escaping survival. This is an issues with all of reality. Deal with it.

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Maybe it's because what "spiritual" is, isn't WORK, and when you TRY to DO work and the separate DOER it makes you suffer, which you then believe is the same thing as insanity? Who insists that it is in fact WORK and is in fact difficult? Maybe it's not that the danger is inherent in the spiritual, but that it's in the idea of the self who needs to do work to be ok with themselves? 

Again, HOW, HOW please tell me how, what I'm saying is arrogant? I'm saying people are parallel. There aren't levels. There isn't higher consciousness. There's just you. being. Love. Read my comments then read Leo's. Please tell me why I'M the arrogant one for pointing this out, when people are in fact actually dying around here? 

Sounds like you have a pretty low level understanding  of spiritual practices. 
 

not to be offensive but there is work to be done. Tripping is work, journaling and contemplating is work, doing yoga or Qigong is work, reading is work. 
 

If people were just magically okay or awake we would not  have a suicide and depression epidemic in the world, or wars, or religions or any of this stuff. Which we do. 
 

there’s a lot of pain and confusion, dogma, in the world. 
 

seems like bypassing actually reality to me when people say there is no work.

sort of relative and depends on your goals.

Maybe I’m having this conversation with with because you aren’t putting in the work? 
 

Maybe, for you there is no work. But, I think you are either lazy or deluded. Not saying you ARE, just you come off that way to me. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Thought Art

[Stef_BG]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:22 PM, Leo Gura said:

He was not banned for advocating therapy. I encourage therapy to anyone who can afford it.

He was banned for denying that God and Love exist and for teaching about awakening when he was clearly not God-realized. He was teaching things which were false.

He was also arguing that therapy is more effective than psychedelics, which is also false. Psychedelics are clinically proven to be more effective than talk therapy for many conditions. Talk-therapy is not very effective for stuff life depression.

I saw this comment and felt obliged to write this before I delete my bookmarks and subscriptions of Leo. 

I was doing Psychadelics heavily for 2 years or so (alone at home, set and setting and all of that...) and it nearly killed me in many ways. 

Started therapy, in particular Peter Levine's Somatic experiencing method with Polyvagal Theory and I can honestly say that for 6 months of therapy, my life has changed for the better unbelievably.
Psychadelics for me was just another escape from my mind and the feeling of alone-ness.

This was Leo says that psychadelics are clinically proven to be more effective than talk therapy is a very dangerous and WRONG claim. I'm sure he got it out of his ass, without any evidence. I'm pretty sure that he also has his traumas and escapes from them in psychadelics.

I really am hoping that with this last post of mine, at least one person tries to actually heal his/hers traumas and renew the frozen spiritual journey.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Stef_BG

[mandyjw]

@Thought Art You see the difference between talking about work and the people who have "done" work or not done "work" and... what is not work? Like... is meditation work or rest? You can refer to it as work, but if you feel like it is work and feel like shit for being lazy during meditation, that's just thoughts to drop. Does that make sense? 

[Thought Art]

Ultimately , realize you are free to do whatever you want with your life.

my opinion is learn from as many people as possible, be open minded and do the work. If that resonates with you.

Simply love however you want.

people here have different operating systems and different goals. 
 

I’m gonna go join Elkhart Tolles cult and then every other cult until I’m all the cults. Then I’m gonna start watching all the movies with cult followings. 
 

then I’ll join mainstream cult ure

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, Stef_BG said:

I saw this comment and felt obliged to write this before I delete my bookmarks and subscriptions of Leo. 

I was doing Psychadelics heavily for 2 years or so (alone at home, set and setting and all of that...) and it nearly killed me in many ways. 

Started therapy, in particular Peter Levine's Somatic experiencing method with Polyvagal Theory and I can honestly say that for 6 months of therapy, my life has changed for the better unbelievably.
Psychadelics for me was just another escape from my mind and the feeling of alone-ness.

This was Leo says that psychadelics are clinically proven to be more effective than talk therapy is a very dangerous and WRONG claim. I'm sure he got it out of his ass, without any evidence. 

I really am hoping that with this last post of mine, at least one person tries to actually heal his/hers traumas and renew the frozen spiritual journey.

??❤

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Thought Art You see the difference between talking about work and the people who have "done" work or not done "work" and... what is not work? Like... is meditation work or rest? You can refer to it as work, but if you feel like it is work and feel like shit for being lazy during meditation, that's just thoughts to drop. Does that make sense? 

I love work and rest.

People here for example are depressions, addicted and anxious. 
 

meditating is hard for the first 6 months or so. It’s work, but doesn’t mean it’s not enjoyable.

I love my mediation… but, it’s not as easy as watching tik tok

The thing is you ARE PERFECT AS YOU ARE

”but you don’t know you beautiful” - One Direction

and maybe you need to do the work to realize it… 

and develop that sweet sweet Qi 

[mandyjw]

Just now, Thought Art said:

 

I love my mediation… but, it’s not as easy as watching tik tok

Maybe it's not as easy because easy is still a level of imagined difficulty? 

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

The thing is you ARE PERFECT AS YOU ARE

❤ I'll take that over the lazy and deluded comment! 

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Maybe it's not as easy because easy is still a level of imagined difficulty? 

❤ I'll take that over the lazy and deluded comment! 

? love you Mandy 

Who knows, 

it’s easier everyday 

maybe it’s the human brain which craves fast and easy

[Thought Art]

For me, life is about being a student of the universe… 

fick actualized.org 

or any other finite system for learning this stuff

give me the foods bb

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

? love you Mandy 

Who knows, 

it’s easier everyday 

maybe it’s the human brain which craves fast and easy

Love you too!

Brain: "But instant seems too slow! It seems like NOTHING is happening. I know, I'll make it seem like what I want ISN'T already here and instant, then I can get it FAST!"

Awareness: ?‍♂️