Hulia

Difference between dream and reality

60 posts in this topic

@Hulia irs all good bro.  If you were dreaming right now and you were lucid and telling someone in the dream they were inside a dream and they laughed, honestly how much time would you spend on the matter?  If you tricked yourself into thinking  its real maybe a lot I dunno..if you were bored...but ultimately you wouldn't waste much time on it haha..  love ya :)

 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Inliytened1 Reality might be not a good word. What I am telling is not that the one thing is real and the other not. But that there is a difference between a dream and not-dream.

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@Hulia yeah I know what you are saying...my night time dreams are often very narrow and hazy and I only remember certain aspects.  However I am acutely aware that they are real from within the context of them..  For you maybe its better to focus on the spiritual practices themselves and see where it takes you...self inquiry, no mind meditation, etc ..rather than trying to conceptualize reality being a dream.   From your POV it makes no sense right now and rightly so.  


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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20 minutes ago, Hulia said:

I haven´t created some theoretical stuff. I had a rather pure experiment of interacting with the same person in a dream and in a reality.

And it IS different. Not only for me. For both of us.

I'm not saying these differences don't exist, I'm saying you are creating these differences. 

Believing it IS objectively / universally different is a rigid mindset. There is also a fluid mindset in which the mind can observe how it is creating these "differences". That is where next level creativity is. 

There are many many ways that we can melt "dream" and "reality" into one formless liquid and then create all sorts of differences between "dream" and "reality".

I'm not saying you are creating "theoretical stuff". I'm saying you are creating "actuality stuff". Yet that "actuality stuff" can be melted down to formless and created as form. 

What I'm pointing at adds fun for some people, yet for other people it ruins the fun. Some people want to get so deeply immersed into their creation that they are no longer aware it's a creation. Then it is "real" and it feels like actually being that character. Realizing how the magic trick works spoils the fun. 

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An interesting thing that people report about their DMT trips is that while they are in this “DMT space” or “Hyper Space”, they have this undeniable sense that the reality they find themselves in is “more real than real” and that the life that they came from(this reality) was just a dream relative to the DMT space.   So in the same way that we say that our sleeping hallucinations are a dream relative to this reality, perhaps you could say that this reality is a dream relative to Hyper Space(or whatever you want to call that place). But of course, here in this reality, we want to be able to say that the DMT trip is the dream or hallucination, and that this reality is somehow more real or more objective.  But while on the other side, many people have this intensely strong sense that it’s the other way around.  So on this side we feel that this is more real, and on that side we feel that that side is more real. But what are we basing that on, other than just a feeling in either state?  
 

Now, of course, it’s all a dream ultimately. Any dualistic phenomenon that arises within consciousness is a dream, and the only actually true reality is Oneness, but perhaps there are many layers to this dream, and a hierarchy of “realness” if you will. :P Dreams within dreams. Simulations within simulations. 
 

I’m not necessarily committed to that idea, I just think it’s interesting to think about.  

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Posted (edited)

In this waking state you know the existence of this waking state+dream state (because you remember previous dreams).

In dream state you can only be aware of what's happening right there and then. You don't have a memory of this waking state, you don't even know that this waking state exists.

So that should show that this waking state is higher than dream state. Because here you know the existence of 2 states, (or 3 if you count with deep sleep state), while in dream state you know the existence of only 1 state (the dream state itself).

Edited by Blackhawk

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1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

In this waking state you can be aware of this waking state+remember previous dreams.

In dream state you can only be aware of what's happening right there and then. You don't have a memory of this waking state, you don't even know that this waking state exists.

So that should show that this waking state is higher than dream state. Because here you know the existence of 2 states, (or 3 if you count with deep sleep state), while in dream state you know the existence of only 1 state (the dream state itself).

What about lucid dreams?  Not all sleeping dreams are the same. I’ve had dreams where I was almost if not entirely as conscious as I am now and could recall past dreams and basically anything else.  In fact, this is quite a normal occurrence for me. :P 

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14 hours ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

What about lucid dreams?  Not all sleeping dreams are the same. I’ve had dreams where I was almost if not entirely as conscious as I am now and could recall past dreams and basically anything else.  In fact, this is quite a normal occurrence for me. :P 

I wish I could do that.   Have never been able to.  They can be crystal clear but I am not conscious they are dreams until the moment of awakening.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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2 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

What about lucid dreams?  Not all sleeping dreams are the same. I’ve had dreams where I was almost if not entirely as conscious as I am now and could recall past dreams and basically anything else.  In fact, this is quite a normal occurrence for me. :P 

You don't always lucid dream..

But okay, whatever.

 

I think maybe the biggest difference is that there are no other conscious beings in dreams, while here there are other conscious beings.

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9 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

You don't always lucid dream..

But okay, whatever.

 

I think maybe the biggest difference is that there are no other conscious beings in dreams, while here there are other conscious beings.

No conscious beings here. Just you talking to yourself. ;P 

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3 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

No conscious beings here. Just you talking to yourself. ;P 

That idea is deeply problematic, and the implications would be crazy, and it would go against all intuition and against everything.

It would mean that I could torture people and they wouldn't feel anything, etc.

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15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I wish I could do that.   Have never been able to.  They can be crystal clear but I am not conscious they are dreams.

Hrmm, you ever tried the “Wake back to sleep method”? It works nearly every time for me. You wake up around 6-7 hours of sleep, stay up for about 30 minutes to an hour or until you’re basically awake, and then lay back down to try to go back to sleep.  Preferably in a position that you usually aren’t comfortable sleeping in.  I’m not too good at sleeping on my back, so that usually works for me.  Sometimes sleeping on my stomach with my arms tucked underneath me works very well too.   Huperzine-A, Galantamine, and 1mg of melatonin as supplements work wonders as well.  While you’re laying down to go back to sleep, try to meditate.  Stay as mindful as possible as you doze off, and you just may start to see a new reality materialize right before your eyes.  

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1 hour ago, Hulia said:

In a dream you have no past and no future. You just come from nowhere and go to nowhere. And in reality you have experience behind and expectations ahead. And this is what makes a huuuuuuuuge difference.

Hehe. So you say there is a past and future here right now? In this present moment? There is a past? A future? Show me it.

Notice, there is actually only the present mont. Right Now. And in this eternal infinite space of the Now, yes, all sorts of thoughts appear. Some of those thoughts perpeptuates the illusion of so-called 'past' or so-called 'future'. You think "Oh I have to get up 8'o'clock tomorrow". Or you think "Jeez, my girlfriend was a jerk yesterday when she yelled at me". Both are just thoughts. Happening in The Now.

No past. No future. To be found. Only this present moment.

There is actually nowhere to go and you came from nothing either. That you were born out of your mothers belly is again: a thought happening in the present moment. Hehe. Even if they filmed the birth and showed it to you, then again, this film you are now watching in the present moment, what you do is that you attach your identity to that group of pixels on the screen appearing as a baby (to you), and you say "oh that was me 25 years ago!"... Well, another thought. But if you believe the thought, the thought almost becomes true. Thoughts are so powerful. Believes immensly powerful. They basically shape your reality and life and behaviour 24/7.

What happens when you let go of thoughts?

Consider that your current experience of "reality" right now is also just a dream. Consider that it is possible to wake up from it and say "oh puh jeez, it's all just a dream, puh, nothing to arrive to, nothing to depart from." :>

 


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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47 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Hrmm, you ever tried the “Wake back to sleep method”?

 

I do that a lot but I'll try the supplements as well..never spent that much time since I'm lucid here...:D


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Posted (edited)

Even while lucid night dreaming, it's not creating the same "justin" which I associate as waking consciousness justin. It's very close, but always subtlety different, mostly coming down to false memories still beleived. 

you had an astral date with your husband and then afterwards, one while awake.  The husband while awake doesn't remember the astral date, but the astral husband could likely remember both.  Which one feels more real? 

Edited by seeking_brilliance

My Imagination is a Monastery and I am its Monk- John Keats

 Join me and SirVladimir for a collection of short stories, guided visualizations, and other forms of lucid/immersive daydreaming. MindVenture Facebook group  (this is not a meetup, merely a mutual interest in lucid daydreaming) 

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7 hours ago, Hulia said:

@Inliytened1 Reality might be not a good word. What I am telling is not that the one thing is real and the other not. But that there is a difference between a dream and not-dream.

Reality is just a better dreamer then you are. A bigger dream. "Your" dreams happen within the larger dream. Reality is dreaming itself into existence complete with a "you" to validate it's existence by calling it 'not a dream'.

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If you investigate conciousness you notice that all that there is to it is , experience.

Some are longer some are shorter,  some are funky and lucid and some are rigid.

Call it dream or call it not a dream, experience happens and will always happen in one shape or form.

Reality is made out of different kinds of experiences.

Can you imagine a reality without experience?

?

Then the duality about reality and dream collapses cause it is all the same, just different flavors of experiences.


You must be swift as the coursing river
With all the force of a great typhoon
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

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30 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

Can you imagine a reality without experience?

?

Could that be the ultimate reality and all experience is the dream?

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38 minutes ago, cetus said:

Could that be the ultimate reality and all experience is the dream?

Yes perhaps there is something to that ?

So essentially we are the non experience, experiencing everything else.

That which is changeless must experience change in order for there to be reality i guess, nothingness experiences everythingness 


You must be swift as the coursing river
With all the force of a great typhoon
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

you had an astral date with your husband and then afterwards, one while awake.  The husband while awake doesn't remember the astral date, but the astral husband could likely remember both.  Which one feels more real? 

I have a feeling, that you like an astral projection of your husband more than the rest of him :) 

It´s logic for me. This is what I´m saying. As astral projections we are less complicated, it´s considerably easier to interact.

Look, you say "sorry" to your husband in a dream, and it means "sorry" or it doesn´t mean anything at all in a dream. You say "sorry" to him in a real life and he would think it´s a "bye", because this is what people often say to each other before closing a door and leaving, knowing that it is probably the last thing to say. All that knowledge and experience in the background. Which help us to survive but makes interactions complicated.

Edited by Hulia

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