Raphael

French Goverment Member Criticize Removal of Meat Based Meal in Schools

26 posts in this topic

Lately, the French minister of interior criticized the removal of the meat based meal option in Lyon's schools. He said it was an "unacceptable insult" for French farmers and butchers and added: "We can see that the moralising and elitist policy of the Greens excludes the popular classes. Many children often only get to eat meat at the school canteen. The agriculture minister also tweeted "Let's stop putting ideology on our children's plates" and "Let's just give them what they need to grow well. Meat is part of it.". The city mayor responded that the menus still include fish and egg products and so are "balanced for all our schoolchildren.

https://www.dw.com/en/vegetarian-school-lunches-spark-row-in-france/a-56645068

It's not the first time that vegetarianism and veganism created political tensions in France. This 2018 article reports that butchers asked government's protection from vegans accusing them of trying to shut down the country's traditional meat-eating culture https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44623399

Edited by Raphael

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Of course he is against it, it’s a threat to his ego

5 hours ago, Raphael said:

trying to shut down the country's traditional meat-eating culture

It’s so deeply embedded in the culture, that part of France would have to die, it’s a collective ego threat 

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You would think food would be the last thing to be ideological about but its actually quite the opposite. xD


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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51 minutes ago, Rilles said:

You would think food would be the last thing to be ideological about but its actually quite the opposite. xD

It is highly interconnected to culture, it is one of the first thing a kid taste from the culture he/she was born in, and when we want to discover a new culture we try its food.

I got highly criticized for being vegetarian in the past. One day I told someone that when it comes to food, I combine the best ingredients that I can find from any culture to get the highest quality meals and the person responded that it was bad to not eat like the culture.

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1 hour ago, Raphael said:

It is highly interconnected to culture, it is one of the first thing a kid taste from the culture he/she was born in, and when we want to discover a new culture we try its food.

Yep, and highly tied in with toxic masculinity, "meat is for men!" "vegans are pussies!". That sort of mentality.

I remember when I was around 18 in high school/college, there was these sort of "friends" I had who were addicted to the gym and every time we had school lunch they would compete with eachother about who could eat the most, to puff up their masculinity, hahaha! They were dead serious too, not even tounge in cheek!

Edited by Rilles

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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8 hours ago, Raphael said:

The agriculture minister also tweeted "Let's stop putting ideology on our children's plates"

Yeah, that's exactly why they should have at least the option to choose a meat-free meal and not be forced to eat in any particular way.

How can he seriously advocate forcing kids to eat meat by denying them any other option and say "let's not be ideological here" at the same time, with a straight face?

Oh boy, the absurdity and hypocrisy of this in unbearable...

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The french government and its elite is a cesspool.

A real devil's nest.

This peculiar information is nothing in comparison to how delusional and hypocritical they are.


“If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?” - Rumi.

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Yeah man, I agree. Meat is necessary to grow healthy and these are children.

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5 hours ago, datamonster said:

Yeah, that's exactly why they should have at least the option to choose a meat-free meal and not be forced to eat in any particular way.

How can he seriously advocate forcing kids to eat meat by denying them any other option and say "let's not be ideological here" at the same time, with a straight face?

Oh boy, the absurdity and hypocrisy of this in unbearable...

I didn't add some context from this French article: https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2021/02/21/a-lyon-le-menu-vegetarien-des-ecologistes-dans-les-cantines-n-est-pas-au-gout-du-gouvernement_6070738_823448.html

Here are some points from this article:

  • The previous mayor (from the same party of the one who is criticizing the decision) already took this decision in May 2020 in order to ensure all meals distribution. But for some reason when the mayor of the Green party take the same decision, it's unacceptable
  • Covid restrictions played in as there is now a two-meter distance separation between kids that is causing time handling difficulties and is restricting the service of more diverse plates
  • Half of the students were are not choosing meat

I personally don't think that removing meat completely is appropriate even though half of the kids were not choosing it. In this case, they could have reduced the meat ratio to maybe 40% or 30% even if this is difficult because of Covid.

Edited by Raphael

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1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

Yeah man, I agree. Meat is necessary to grow healthy and these are children.

1) That doesn't mean you need to eat it with every single meal and that no child should even be given the option to choose a meat-free meal.

2) It's not necessary. See for instance: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/

1 minute ago, Raphael said:

I also don't think that removing meat completely is appropriate even though half of the kids were not choosing it. In this case, they could have reduced the meat ratio to maybe 40% or 30%.

I agree, but the debate is whether there should be vegetarian options at all, right?

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8 minutes ago, datamonster said:

I agree, but the debate is whether there should be vegetarian options at all, right?

Yes, and ideology too, and there is a vegetarian option as they are proposing eggs.

I think a vegetarian option should exist in all schools. Cultures need to evolve because over-consumption of meat is a huge environmental issue and can cause health issues too.

Edited by Raphael

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All this from giving kids the option to have a Vegan/Vegetarian meal in school (not from forcing Vegetarian meals on anyone).

Is there something I'm missing here? 

Edited by DocWatts

The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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42 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

All this from giving kids the option to have a Vegan/Vegetarian meal in school (not from forcing Vegetarian meals on anyone).

Is there something I'm missing here? 

No, actually, there is a vegetarian option (eggs), but because of Covid difficulties and the fact that half of the kids were not choosing meat, they choose to completely remove it. So they forced kids to not eat meat but didn't force vegetarianism, nor veganism as there is fish but that was caused by the pandemic difficulties and the general eating preferences rather than ideology. Meat is a huge part of French culture, so removing it is like attacking the country.

What is ridiculous is that the previous mayor (who is from the same party as the one who is criticizing) did the same thing before to deal with Covid challenges.

Edited by Raphael

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18 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

All this from giving kids the option to have a Vegan/Vegetarian meal in school (not from forcing Vegetarian meals on anyone).

Is there something I'm missing here? 

Because the very premise of veganism "insults" butchers and animal slavers, because it showcases that in the eyes of the animals these individuals commit atrocities.

I have already posted this study a few times, but here:

https://sci-hub.se/10.1177/1368430215618253

 

Vegans are inevitably going to be discriminated against because they are norm challenging, especially in regards to morality.

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Quote

"Let's stop putting ideology on our children's plates"

Hahahaha


"In time you will learn that intuition is a higher form of knowledge and your feelings are in fact your sharpest tool."

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I too share the health minister’s concerns, for a lot of children their only source of proper nutrition is from school, and meat is essential for a child’s growth as it contains all the essential nutrients.


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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I think a better approach would be to make children think more deeply about the food they eat. Outright banning it is silly imo. 

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13 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I too share the health minister’s concerns, for a lot of children their only source of proper nutrition is from school, and meat is essential for a child’s growth as it contains all the essential nutrients.

This isn't true, meat does not contain all the essential nutrients, nor are the important nutrients it contains exclusive to meat. If the school was worried about nutrition they would simply give the kids meals that were nutritionally adequat.

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18 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I too share the health minister’s concerns, for a lot of children their only source of proper nutrition is from school, and meat is essential for a child’s growth as it contains all the essential nutrients.

You think a first world country in 2021 will purposely starve their children of essential nutrients? 


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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