Rupert Spira on Sam Harris Podcast

[VeganAwake]

2 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

 I thought he was admitting he was wrong as he said that, but nope.

Well the illusory part maybe that it means something holds value or is important in some way or the other.

Yay I'm conscious that the body is picking its nose right now this is great..

My cat appears to be conscious that I just put a treat on the ground for it... yay this is incredible!!

The only thing that believes that higher Consciousness will be beneficial is the separate sense of self that wants to get something out of everything.

But that's the game of the ego... as long as it's seeking for a better experience of course always in the future, it perpetuates its own illusory existence.( running on the hamster wheel)

❤

[Mason Riggle]

@Mannyb as far as I know Sam has never identified as a Materialist. That's a label that's been assigned to him. 

He's not even necessarily a 'realist'. 

He seems perfectly comfortable with the idea that reality might be imaginary. 

"I might be a brain in a vat". - Sam Harris. 

His point is that it only 'really' matters, from the 'realist' perspective. 

From the 'idealist' paradigm, 'mattering' is just an idea. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[SamueLSD]

3 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The only thing that believes that higher Consciousness will be beneficial is the separate sense of self that wants to get something out of everything.

Or is it intuition?

As a moth spirals towards the light, man stumbles in the direction of Love.

[SamueLSD]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

He seems perfectly comfortable with the idea that reality might be imaginary.

Being sort-of open minded is still closed mindedness.

[Mason Riggle]

@SamueLSD are you open to the idea that Sam Harris is imagimary (and therfor has no real perspective)? He is. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Coldbrain]

It's obvious that consciousness is a concept and that it is partial and flawed.

The most obvious limitation of everything is consciousness theory is that it can never explain how others and the external world exist outside of one's own bubble of reality. Consciousness is, by definition, a first person experience, and so it cannot explain a third person's experience, or even acknowledge it for that matter. How does the world continue working while you're unaware? Consciousness has nothing to do with that, obviously. This is Sam's argument. And y'all are just deflecting it with your smart ass non-dual arguments cause you're too closed-minded and identified with your position as if it's absolutely true. Yet, when you are presented with an argument as such, you will immediately go to the absolute vs. relative distinction, as if it's gonna answer anything at all. What you're actually doing is that you're just confusing your relative perspective with the absolute. But you're not aware enough to see that. And now that I'm saying that, you'll either hate me or call me names, even though I'm just telling you the truth of what you're doing. 

It's a tragedy that you claim open-mindedness while being dogmatic. Sam is careful at least. He's willing to admit your consciousness theory if it can resolve the 1st person vs. 3rd person contradiction. But since it can't, he doesn't admit it as absolutely true, and he's correct for that. Y'all are the deluded, naive, and closed-minded ones here. Not Sam.

Now you will probably say that I don't understand what you mean cause I'm not awake or whatever, but that would make you even more confused cause you'd be disproving your own theory by the sheer fact of trying to prove it to "others". Your theory is solipsism, and it's impossible to prove.

Now you will probably say that you don't claim that solipsism is true. And you will think that I've made this mistake cause I don't understand non-duality, but I have an answer for this already. You think that consciousness is the ultimate ground of reality. To you, reality IS consciousness. Right? Well, you're deluded for thinking that. Why? Because reality is unconscious when you're unconscious. So why do you think it's consciousness? I would guess that that's just a projection from the human consciousness onto reality. And that it has nothing to do with the ultimate reality, which is nothing.

And I know what you're gonna say, you will say that consciousness IS nothingness, but at that point you will be just arguing semantics, cause I could call nothingness toilet paper, or bird's milk, or ox turd, or anything else. Consciousness is just a meaningless label that you're using to describe the indescribable. But since you confuse your relative perspective with the absolute truth, you will identify the indescribable as consciousness cause you're too identified with your non-dual narrative.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Coldbrain

[Mannyb]

18 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Mannyb as far as I know Sam has never identified as a Materialist. That's a label that's been assigned to him. 

He's not even necessarily a 'realist'. 

He seems perfectly comfortable with the idea that reality might be imaginary. 

"I might be a brain in a vat". - Sam Harris. 

His point is that it only 'really' matters, from the 'realist' perspective. 

From the 'idealist' paradigm, 'mattering' is just an idea. 

 

 

The realist and idealist perspectives are mere philosophy. And why insist on it having to matter?  
Again, Sam is real and his reality is imaginary, so is his perspective. ?? 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb

[Natasha]

8 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

Consciousness is, by definition, a first person experience

Whose definition? A rock is Consciousness with no Self-awareness.

[VeganAwake]

19 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

Or is it intuition?

As a moth spirals towards the light, man stumbles in the direction of Love.

Well then that would be what's happening.

It's whole complete and perfect ❤

 

 

[Mason Riggle]

@Mannyb Sam's perspective seems to matter to an awful lot of people here, who have some opinion about it. 

The dream only exists while one is lost in dream. To 'wake up' from the dream is to no longer be lost in it. 

If you think Sam is real, then you are just as committed to reality as Sam. 

If you think the characters in your dream are real, you're still dreaming. 

[Coldbrain]

Just now, Natasha said:

Whose definition? A rock is consciousness without Self-awareness.

You can't prove that rocks exist outside of your own consciousness, so your definition is flawed. You're defining the rock through your own experience, which is, by definition, your experience, not mine. Hence, all the disagreements and confusion.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Coldbrain said:

It's obvious that consciousness is a concept and that it is partial and flawed.

If you ain't awake you will still believe all there is is concept - and thus will be still comparing concepts.

3 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

 it can never explain how others and the external world exist outside of one's own bubble of reality.  .

Because they are imaginary and exist within your consciousness.  If you were awake you would be conscious of this.

6 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

  He's willing to admit your consciousness theory if it can resolve the 1st person vs. 3rd person contradiction. But since it can't, he doesn't admit it as absolutely true, and he's correct for that

 

Its not a theory - Truth is prior to theory and proof and will never be proven.  This takes awakening - Sam ain't awake nor are you or you would not be posting this.  Just the facts.

9 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

  Your theory is solipsism, and it's never possible to prove.

 

Proof is 2nd order and held within Truth.  Truth is Infinity. Infinity is Consciousness.   If you were awake you would be conscious of this.    Reality is not a theory.   it's just what is.  

[Mannyb]

2 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Mannyb Sam's perspective seems to matter to an awful lot of people here, who have some opinion about it. 

The dream only exists while one is lost in dream. To 'wake up' from the dream is to no longer be lost in it. 

If you think Sam is real, then you are just as committed to reality as Sam. 

If you think the characters in your dream are real, you're still dreaming. 

Then start teaching & start with Rupert, Leo etc... since you seem to be the only one awake here. Btw you haven’t convinced anyone other than yourself here, good luck ? 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb

[Natasha]

1 minute ago, Coldbrain said:

You can't prove that rocks exist outside of your own consciousness, so your definition is flawed. You're defining the rock through your own experience, which is, by definition, your experience, not mine. Hence, all the disagreements and confusion.

They are not outside of consciousness, they are Consciousness itself. 

[tsuki]

This discussion is just stupid. ?‍♂️

1. When convincing someone, if you are arguing, then you are losing.
2. If you are trying to convince someone of nonduality, then you are not getting it.

Edited February 7, 2021 by tsuki

[Coldbrain]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Proof is 2nd order and held within Truth.  Truth is Infinity. Infinity is Consciousness.   If you were awake you would be conscious of this.    Reality is not a theory.   it's just what is.  

Reality is nothingness. Consciousness is a label projected onto nothingness. Nothingness and consciousness are not equal or synonyms. They're on two different levels. Nothingness is first order. Consciousness, or human experience, is second order.

[VeganAwake]

4 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

You can't prove that rocks exist outside of your own consciousness, so your definition is flawed. You're defining the rock through your own experience, which is, by definition, your experience, not mine. Hence, all the disagreements and confusion.

But If someone picks up a rock without you being conscious of it and  nails you in the back of the leg you'll become conscious quick that there was a hard piece of matter otherwise known as a rock that apparently exists.

[Coldbrain]

5 minutes ago, Natasha said:

They are not outside of consciousness, they are Consciousness itself. 

That's assuming that consciousness is all that there is. But you have no proof for that claim except your experience, which is infinitely limited compared to infinity. Infinity is not conscious or consciousness, it's emptyness.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Coldbrain said:

Reality is nothingness. Consciousness is a label projected onto nothingness. Nothingness and consciousness are not equal or synonyms. They're on two different levels. Nothingness is first order. Consciousness, or human experience, is second order.

No.  Nothingness, Infinity, and Consciousness are identical.  You need an awakening.  

[Coldbrain]

3 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

But If someone picks up a rock without you being conscious of it and  nails you in the back of the leg you'll become conscious quick that there was a hard piece of matter otherwise known as a rock that apparently exists.

Correct.