I told my parents I see no point in attending Church

[Username]

I kept it for too long. I was always suspicious of Catholic Church. I knew that there must be some truth there behind all that bullcrap - because of that I didn't drop it. After my enlightenment experiences it felt horrible about being inauthentic.

Today I told what I think about Church. I have also shown video of Thomas Keating on nondual Christianity. After that I had a long conversation with my father. Just be for the record, my parents are heavily involved in Church community.

I explained how Church is in reality only distracting in pursuit of God. I told about my natural/sober God realization. My father sort of agreed with everything I said (he is Yellow) but thinks that I still should attend to church for community reasons. My mother is really upset - I see a lot of blue values in her.

 

I feel bad about my mother. Any ideas how to make it easier for her? I would make an offer that I will still attend to Church and they have to take some LSD - but it's a little bit slippery territory.

[Michael569]

I go to church few times a year (whenever I am in my home country) with my grandma and these few times I dedicate to silent observation. The church is indeed a place of peace and serenity regardless of the spiral dynamics stage. You can just sit in the corner, close your eyes and use this time to mindfully observe yourself or practice your non-judgement and unconditional love towards all those spiral blue people regardless of what how limited you consider their worldview to be. 

A lot of what the pastor preaches actually makes sense to me. Lots of Christian values are genuine and useful for basic moral development. You don't need to take on any of the holly bs storytelling. But there are lessons to learn even at church. I also kinda like the singing, I never participate but it grounds me and I feel at peace at the end. 

Maybe negotiate with your mom to go twice a month for her sake Don't try to change her, love her for who she is. She gave you life and good health, don't push her into something that is threatening to her whole identity. Not everyone is supposed to climb the spiral. 

[BlackMaze]

I told my parents on the christmas table when i was 14 that i don't believe in god  what i meant was that i don't have a religion and the reason for that was that i was a bookworm back then and was reading some nice conspiracy/spirituality books. Their reaction was heavy they couldn't believe it or accept it. They even called me names sometimes like unfaithful as though it is something that i should be ashamed of lol. With time they accepted it at least my father. They are not church persons but are mostly blue. It didn' t feel right for me since i was little and a book made me see this clearly. When an illusion shutters it just does. I didn't feel like pretending that i am Christian and continue doing the things that felt stupid for me at the time. Just be yourself give them some time to accept it and hopefully they will. That said i never said something like this to my grandma for example she would have a heart attack. 

That said again 2 years later i tried to become a christian seriously to see what is like because of a friend that transformed himself by going to a cult like church. I was reading the bible and had some non dual experiences because of the trying to be as loving as i could. The bible is a great book. I went one time to this church and freaked the fuck out. My friend's jaw was shaking and people there were speaking in 'tongues'. I never went there again of course. By reading the bible i had the idea that if jesus said to love everyone then maybe i had to love the devil himself. I told about this to my friend and he said to me something like the devil is the enemy. At that point i knew that 99% of Christians are extremely close minded and dropped it for good. 

[Origins]

@Username yeah just tell them to fuck off. They’ll eventually get the picture, start taking over the authority that is rightly yours.

I once grudgingly told my father to put the television in his will instead of me because he spends/spent so much time watching it, it was so freaking hilarious.

My mother once said “I don’t think you like me” and I said yeah that’s because you’re a bitch.

The day will inevitably come where you have to bridge more and more to your sovereign universal individuation. You’ll find your own way. Strength.

[Arcangelo]

The last time I went to church I was super high on MDMA. It was during the week so the church was almost empty. I saw the priest opening his hands like checking if it was raining and I did the same thing. Afterwards I went and told a church lady that I wanted to read the bible in front of everyone, one day. She told me it was OK, but I never went back.

Good times.

[PepperBlossoms]

48 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

The last time I went to church I was super high on MDMA. It was during the week so the church was almost empty. I saw the priest opening his hands like checking if it was raining and I did the same thing. Afterwards I went and told a church lady that I wanted to read the bible in front of everyone, one day. She told me it was OK, but I never went back.

Good times.

@Arcangelo hahaha omg this is the best.

@Username Talking to church people does almost no good - I'm 4 for 4. 

Me: Have you considered studying the other religions?  Them: No.  Me: Why not?  Them: Because mine is the best.  Me: How do you know that?  Them: Because I know.

Me: Don't you see this as a worship of magic?  Them: No.

Me: Why would an open minded person who is open to the possibility of anything about life ever constrain themselves to shutting their entire life in the box of what one religion says?  There is so much to learn and think about. Them: You just have to have faith...

Me: Why is it that you say your religion is the one?  If you were born in another country, would you still say this was the one or the religion over there was the one?

Me: Don't you see the hate, anger, hopelessness on every page?  How do you worship this stuff?

It's almost like some people do not want to consider any other reality other than the one made up 2000 years ago.  The blackmail to "not go to hell" is pretty strong I guess.

The idea that everyone else's religion is wrong but mine happens to be right really hits the spot.

Edited December 27, 2020 by PepperBlossoms

[No Self]

9 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

The idea that everyone else's religion is wrong but mine happens to be right really hits the spot.

People forming into tribes is a tendency going back millions of years. The intellectual excuse-making to relieve cognitive dissonance might be a bit more recent, though. No doubt there is some value in each of the religions' teachings, too, but community is the real name of the game.

[PepperBlossoms]

17 hours ago, No Self said:

community is the real name of the game.

Good point.  I remember back when I used to go to church there was this "us versus them" going on.  All those people who don't go to church being talked down upon, the sinners being talked down upon, the people who only went to church on Christmas talked down upon.  The idea that we will all go to heaven because we are good people and screw those other people who mess up - they will go to hell.

Edited December 28, 2020 by PepperBlossoms

[No Self]

2 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

I remember back when I used to go to church there was this "us versus them" going on.

Reminds me of a famous quote by Sigmund Freud:

"Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from its readiness to fit in with our instinctual wishful impulses."

We humans like a bit of 'us versus them' and we wish that spirituality could be just like our competitive sports, politics and economic systems. All these systems attempt to be civilised versions of tribal battles. But of course, we deny our primitiveness!

Christianity covers a spectrum ranging from the most mild-mannered congregations to the spectacles of the Westboro Baptist Church. The gentle ones rarely talk about hell, though it's usually still there in their belief systems. The one I knew as a child was definitely on the mild side, and it took many years for me to view it critically. I still envy the level of social support that members get just because they are able to integrate with the church beliefs.

But alas, real truth has to be universal and about oneness, with no priest as a middleman. What a bummer.

[hyruga]

7 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Good point.  I remember back when I used to go to church there was this "us versus them" going on.  All those people who don't go to church being talked down upon, the sinners being talked down upon, the people who only went to church on Christmas talked down upon.  The idea that we will all go to heaven because we are good people and screw those other people who mess up - they will go to hell.

Yeah you end up joining 'them'?

And people are against you now.?

[Username]

Thank you for all of your responses. @Michael569 I can relate with what you wrote.

Telling that I don't see any point in Church (or any other religion) was very healing experience! I was building bitterness because of supped negative emotions to Church. I explained Christianity from the nondual perspective. I showed Samadhi movie (from youtube) and explained how it is directly connected with passages from Bible. I must say that my parents took it VERY WELL despite me bashing Church heavily. I am surprised! My mother wasn't able to wrap her head around because of strong attachment to labels. It was really nice to have such an honest conversation.

My parents have no issues with my approach, they just care about me being in community - this is what they really care about. I see Church community as a mental asylum without a doctor but I can SIT in a church sometimes.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Username

[bejapuskas]

@Username Your mum might never change.

[Username]

@bejapuskas This is true.. My mother has strong Blue tendencies but other than that is (relatively) very healthy. She doesn't have classical clash with Green. My father is clearly solid Yellow but has some blue attachments. She isn't strictly Blue because she was exposed to other values. It is still weird that she did not transition into higher stages. Maybe it's because of bad communication between my parents or my father's liking of Blue caused that.