If everything is perfect as it is what's the point of doing anything?

[Carl-Richard]

Relative/absolute fallacy.

[Mu_]

@tatsumaru   I'm really sorry to hear you've been through and are dealing with so much.  I went through a phase just like that for about 15 years as well, existential crisis, kundalini awakenings that brought up trauma after trauma, a constant increase of negative chatter in the mind.  I wanted it to end, and I got a point where it felt and seemed better if it would just end.  It was crushing, a tremendous let down on the whole process of life that I was hoping to find when I originally set out to find Truth/God/Enlightenment, but then for reasons that can't briefly be summarized all that changed and disappeared, just like it had never happened.

If you want someone to talk to, feel free to PM me.  The one thing I can say is sometimes we just have to suffer, and really just accept it is what it is and that theres always someone who has it worse, and the best we can do is keep a positive attitude, since thats what we live with moment to moment, and to leave open the possibility that things can and do change (closing down to the idea that things will never change and its just going to be that way forever is going to likely keep it that way), and do our best to be positive despite the troubles (doesn't mean we deny the pain we are going through or others).

[tatsumaru]

17 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@tatsumaru   I'm really sorry to hear you've been through and are dealing with so much.  I went through a phase just like that for about 15 years as well, existential crisis, kundalini awakenings that brought up trauma after trauma, a constant increase of negative chatter in the mind.  I wanted it to end, and I got a point where it felt and seemed better if it would just end.  It was crushing, a tremendous let down on the whole process of life that I was hoping to find when I originally set out to find Truth/God/Enlightenment, but then for reasons that can't briefly be summarized all that changed and disappeared, just like it had never happened.

If you want someone to talk to, feel free to PM me.  The one thing I can say is sometimes we just have to suffer, and really just accept it is what it is and that theres always someone who has it worse, and the best we can do is keep a positive attitude, since thats what we live with moment to moment, and to leave open the possibility that things can and do change (closing down to the idea that things will never change and its just going to be that way forever is going to likely keep it that way), and do our best to be positive despite the troubles (doesn't mean we deny the pain we are going through or others).

There's a certain thing called The Doherty Threshold in computer science. In the 70s and 80s the computers they made were very slow so when the user would input something they would have to wait for too long for the output and the experience of using a computer was too painful and no one liked it. Eventually computers got faster and faster until one day the speed of output crossed a certain threshold which made using the computer a breeze and also addictive and they called it The Doherty Threshold. I have contemplated this many times and have understood that in life there are certain thresholds for each aspect of life and below them it's not good enough and above them it's good enough. It's the same thresholds that make someone pretty enough to be considered pretty or how fast you understand something to consider it easy to understand or how healthy you are to feel healthy enough etc. And so to a certain degree the feeling of well being has to do with these thresholds in life and when you are unable to reach them you feel like life is effortful and its quality is low and when you are above them you feel effortless and life is easy. I guess I just want life to be slightly easier. Even Elon Musk declared - "I wish things weren't so hard". It feels like this dimension that we live in is very dense, thick and resistant to change and that what makes it such a hell in my opinion, because it takes 10 fucking years to solve a simple problem in your life and you have thousands...

[Member]

If everything would be perfect, then there would be no work to do. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The mind can transcend imperfection but perfection can never be achieved. That's why spiritual work is always required.

You could also ask why do you have to work in order to feed yourself? Couldn't you instead just lay down and root? In the end, it won't matter who your are as the result will be the same (death). But this doesn't matter to you because you still want to live, or at least, body is struggling to do so. So in order to make your life enjoyable and cheat death for as long as you can, you work... and work... and work... so that you can become immortal! That's the fucking point. But since all of you want to perceive only this 3D world and die like pathetic human beings, I guess I will be the only one drinking from the Holy Grail. Oh well, no regrets whatsoever... haters gonna hate nevertheless

Edited July 17, 2020 by Member

[Bazooka Jesus]

6 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

I don't like this train of thought - it's cyclical not liberating. If there was no suffering you wouldn't need to get stronger.

You don't think that it is cynical to think that there is no purpose to suffering whatsoever and also no way out of it?

Alright, let me oblige you and change my tune for you:

You are fucked, buddy. This world that you are living in is a goddamn stinkin' shithole, life is unfair, all is vain, and aint nothing you can do about it. NOTHING!

Feel liberated now? Heh.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Bazooka Jesus

[traveler]

Because it is perfect! Doing is as perfect as anything else. The motivation to improve this through doing falls away though, then doing just happens. The dream of the boss within the skull is an illusion, so when it falls away everything is the same, just without the boss pushing and pulling. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by traveler

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Member said:

If everything would be perfect, then there would be no work to do. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The mind can transcend imperfection but perfection can never be achieved. That's why spiritual work is always required.

You could also ask why do you have to work in order to feed yourself? Couldn't you instead just lay down and root? In the end, it won't matter who your are as the result will be the same (death). But this doesn't matter to you because you still want to live, or at least, body is struggling to do so. So in order to make your life enjoyable and cheat death for as long as you can, you work... and work... and work... so that you can become immortal! That's the fucking point. But since all of you want to perceive only this 3D world and die like pathetic human beings, I guess I will be the only one drinking from the Holy Grail. Oh well, no regrets whatsoever... haters gonna hate nevertheless

What are you talking about when you say "But since all of you want to perceive only this 3D world and die like pathetic human beings, I guess I will be the only one drinking from the Holy Grail. Oh well, no regrets whatsoever... haters gonna hate nevertheless ??

[Member]

5 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

What are you talking about when you say "But since all of you want to perceive only this 3D world and die like pathetic human beings, I guess I will be the only one drinking from the Holy Grail. Oh well, no regrets whatsoever... haters gonna hate nevertheless ??

I'm going into the 4th dimension with this mortal stinky body. Sounds pretty exciting, huh?

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

There's a certain thing called The Doherty Threshold in computer science. In the 70s and 80s the computers they made were very slow so when the user would input something they would have to wait for too long for the output and the experience of using a computer was too painful and no one liked it. Eventually computers got faster and faster until one day the speed of output crossed a certain threshold which made using the computer a breeze and also addictive and they called it The Doherty Threshold. I have contemplated this many times and have understood that in life there are certain thresholds for each aspect of life and below them it's not good enough and above them it's good enough. It's the same thresholds that make someone pretty enough to be considered pretty or how fast you understand something to consider it easy to understand or how healthy you are to feel healthy enough etc. And so to a certain degree the feeling of well being has to do with these thresholds in life and when you are unable to reach them you feel like life is effortful and its quality is low and when you are above them you feel effortless and life is easy. I guess I just want life to be slightly easier. Even Elon Musk declared - "I wish things weren't so hard". It feels like this dimension that we live in is very dense, thick and resistant to change and that what makes it such a hell in my opinion, because it takes 10 fucking years to solve a simple problem in your life and you have thousands...

I like this theory, first time hearing about it.  ya life can feel SOOOOOO hard, like seemingly so insurmountably hard, make you want to leave and never come back hard, and sometimes you just gotta accept and face it at that level 100%, even if momentarily it crushes you, but then before it crushes the soul out of ya, you just lovingly say fuck it, i'm going to make the most of the situation in front of me, putting your best foot forward, not taking your frustrations out on yourself or others, just committing to making happiness your priority and finding a way to the best of your ability to do so, even if it doesn't always work out.

And when suffering and problems and troubles happen again, you lovingly say "ya life, is that all you got, I've suffered worse for 15 years, and I'm not gonna let this momentary new or old challenge hold me down".

Sometimes you just gotta make something new happen within, even if it sounds hokey what I'm sharing.  Flip the script, through away old ways of thinking, believing and operating......

[Mu_]

29 minutes ago, Member said:

I'm going into the 4th dimension with this mortal stinky body. Sounds pretty exciting, huh?

Who are the pathetic humans your talking about?

[Member]

24 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Who are the pathetic humans your talking about?

Those who don't dare and are comfortable with being a pathetic human

[Mu_]

7 minutes ago, Member said:

Those who don't dare and are comfortable with being a pathetic human

Just some words of wisdom, but be careful with that line of thinking.  It can easily lead one to a super ego ruling over those who are lower then it because you are now more spiritually enlightened than them.

[Member]

2 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Just some words of wisdom, but be careful with that line of thinking.  It can easily lead one to a super ego ruling over those who are lower then it because you are now more spiritually enlightened than them.

What happened to those wise people? What happened to those experts in the Scriptures? What happened to the ones who think they have all the answers? Didn't God show that the wisdom of this world is foolish? (1 Corinthians 1:20)

The wisdom of this world is foolishness but that does not mean that people are to blame. And I don't consider anyone lower but I guess it is enjoyable being a homo sapiens since no one really wants to have eternal life. So what's the point of asking if all the hooman goals are based on survival/this is all there is?

[bejapuskas]

@Member  For some people it can be extremely challenging to change, you really cannot judge them for staying the way they are.

[Artsu]

Everything is not perfect, and exercising your will is part of what makes life good.

[kagaria]

It's easy to go around and say that in some exalted spiritual state everything is perfect and give lip service to the truth, but it's way harder for one to actually fight for the truth everyday and speak against those in power

[Gesundheit]

@tatsumaru "Perfect" is a concept.

Everything is not perfect as it is. It's not "whatever it is the opposite of perfect" either. Rather, it is simply what it is. Everything is everything. Period.

Always remember to examine the initial assumptions before going any further, and to recognize them as they are; as mere assumptions, i.e. partial points of view. 

[Member]

11 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

For some people it can be extremely challenging to change, you really cannot judge them for staying the way they are.

Not judging but I can't stand lazy bums saying that there's no reason for a change. These kind of people actually drag others down and make tons of other people pretty suicidal which can only make me furious. Are you ill or have no reason to live? Everything is perfect! Saying this at a inappropriate time is just crime against humanity and I can't accept this "wisdom" ?

[bejapuskas]

@Member  Yeh that's true, some people just whine where they could actually do the practices, like yoga and meditation, and improve their lives, or they just preach their nonsense to others. But some people just have a lower tolerance for psychological pain, especially older people, whose minds aren't as flexible and fluid. They would literally collapse if they tried to be more conscious of some traumas.

[Member]

@bejapuskas Most people are young, healthy and ignorant and only care about picking up chicks, they're not interested at all in spiritual evolution. Not commenting anything about those frail souls. So I don't need them to spread their shitty propaganda about anything, I've been a zombie half of my life because of this kind of thinking.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Member