Massive GREEN Step for Reddit

[JosephKnecht]

1 hour ago, lmfao said:

I don't know to what extent social media websites should be allowed to block certain speech, or allow certain speech. So I don't know if this was right. If you consider all these different websites together, they form a monopoly over communication and hold the fate of humanity in their mind. At this point, these websites are so large that they aren't just private companies who can do what they want. 

That is what I have been trying to say. I do not follow Stefan, and I was unaware of /r/the_donald until they removed it from Reddit. 

We should not delegate the freedom of speech to large companies that basically have a monopoly on our communication channels. 

If Youtube could ban Alex Jones, Stefan, and others, what would prevent them from banning Leo from Youtube? 

I am sure in the hundreds of hours Leo has uploaded, someone might interpret something as hate speech. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, crab12 said:

I don't think Molyneux beieves whites are superior to others

But he seems to claim that whites have an inherently higher IQ and that this is an unchangeable fact.

To me that's awfully close to white supremacy. And it will be taken by his audience as bolstering their racist views. It gives ammunition to racists for being racists while denying they are racists, because "science".

The human mind loves to use "science" and "reason" to validate whatever biases it has. Because it desperately wants to ground its biases in something objective. The whole game of the mind here is to deny that its worldview and biases are purely relative, subjective, and selfish.

Molyneux is in the business of playing that game on behalf of his ethnocentric audience. Racist people need some authority figure who will tell them that their racism isn't actually racism, and that those who call them racists are actually being unscientific.

[Akemrelax]

12 hours ago, crab12 said:

I appreciate you recognizing Molyneux's merit and not condemning him as a person for talking about IQ in one of his videos.

Not to speak on Leo's behalf but I'm pretty sure he is condemning him exactly for talking about IQ being related to race.

11 hours ago, Girzo said:

That's the source of whiter = better in places like India.

Not really, historically Indians had a appreciation for dark skin tones, evident by their dark skinned gods and goddesses. It would be foolish to think that European colonialism and Muslim conquests (who were fair skinned) had no impact on beauty standards. 

[mandyjw]

What if we fundamentally misunderstand what intelligence is? Isn't using IQ as a way to judge and assess people at all the archaic thing we should do away with? Could Molyneux actually accidentally serve at pointing out a much deeper problem here?

I understand that that is not his intent or how he is being interpreted by his fans, but sometimes letting people speak what they believe has a way of illuminating everyone around them in ways they didn't intend. If everyone is too terrified of being shamed or called racist, a lot of people will cling on to their unexamined prejudice beliefs like skeletons in the closet because they will be too scared to have the discussions that actually open minds and hearts. 

[Extreme Z7]

Kyle Kulinski does not understand Spiral Dynamics. He thinks the Reddit, YouTube, and Twitch purge is part of a plot being done by "The Establishment" to eventually silence all fringe accounts regardless of political leaning. He also didn't even seem to know r/ChapTrapHouse was removed because it was too toxic, not because it was far left.

His "free speech" take on this is ridiculous and borderline conspiratorial.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Extreme Z7

[Leo Gura]

Well, it is true that "The Establishment" will not be friendly to fringe, radical ideas which undermine mainstream consensus. But what needs to be acknowledged is that this is not purely some evil establishment plot. It's just the very nature of how mainstream things work. Mainstream things tend to exclude niche things. And this is sometimes good because niche things can be toxic. At least the mainstream stuff has been field-tested to work at scale. Niche ideas have not.

So of course Google will censor stuff like anti-vax conspiracy theories because it simply goes against mainstream science and Google is not going to go against mainstream science.

Huge companies are going to try to accommodate the middle of the road of their customer base. They will avoid fringe wacky stuff that few people are into.

It's like Kyle and progressives don't understand that any time you challenge the status quo, it will push back. That's the whole challenge of making progress. OF COURSE all the giant companies and platforms will not be friendly to radical progressive voices. That is not their job. Their job is to serve the mainstream.

[crab12]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But he seems to claim that whites have an inherently higher IQ and that this is an unchangeable fact.

To me that's awfully close to white supremacy. And it will be taken by his audience as bolstering their racist views. It gives ammunition to racists for being racists while denying they are racists, because "science".

You talk about this at length in this video:

Racists and people who feel inferior to others need to be shown this truth. No attributes, external things, achievements, etc, makes you a better or a more valuable person, including how many points you score on a quiz. If they realized this they could direct their energy away from antagonism towards creation and finding a way to be in harmony. And this is such an easy truth to grasp compared to some more advanced stuff.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, it is true that "The Establishment" will not be friendly to fringe

But this is not a fringe issue, as you said it yourself

On 7/2/2020 at 5:06 AM, Leo Gura said:

roughly half the country agrees with it.

And progressives blatantly refuse to acknowledge our grievances and this is what drives us to the extreme.

edit: I can also see that conservatives don't understand the perspective of progressives, and this adds to the conflict as well.

Edited July 3, 2020 by crab12

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, crab12 said:

But this is not a fringe issue, as you said it yourself

I meant Kyle Kulinsky is the fringe, as he complains that the algorithm doesn't favor him.

Of course it doesn't.

Race IQ is also pretty fringe. It's not serious science and YT naturally will not be friendly to it.

[Yog]

Hm, maybe if we don't put "intelligence" on a pedestal as a single edged sword type of attribute and as the only attribute that is worth beholding.... things wouldn't go that bad. Intelligence has its perks and cons.

The whole thing  almost reminds me of how some feminists are trying to gain independence and better life trough aspiring and pushing towards masculine values. Fact is the game was rigged from the start in totally non intentional way. It seems to me this is happening with this IQ debate, and that is why it is a taboo area.

It only makes sense that people living in different areas had different challenges, only to develop different genetics resulting in different stats, some of which may be dynamic IQ.

It looks like an RPG game to me, too bad we are not good enough to look such problems in the face, instead we are putting a lot of effort in remaining juvenile.

Even kids cartoons seem to get this across better. Its, Its ok Biiiiilly, you may be stupid, but you have a biiiig heart and i love you nevertheless, lets go and play.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Yog

[Forestluv]

14 hours ago, mandyjw said:

What if we fundamentally misunderstand what intelligence is? Isn't using IQ as a way to judge and assess people at all the archaic thing we should do away with? 

I think there are a lot of caveats about who gets to define what intelligence is, write the tests and what the tests are actually testing. For example, IQ tests also test for motivation and the ability to focus on their questions and their answers.. Those are aspects of “Intelligence” to them. I’ve taken an IQ test in which I started to deconstruct the question structure, the relativity of points, how certain parts could be interpreted differently, how multiple answers could be partially correct and how unintelligent the test writers were. Of course this type of intelligence doesn’t count and I ended up scoring relatively poorly. As well, I get bored taking those tests. I’m not motivated. I would much rather construct my own models or recontextualize existing models. Yet this doesn’t count as “intelligence” according to the tests. 

[crab12]

@Yog I agree with you that "intelligence" is a misleading concept. For example I was scored slightly above average "intelligence" once, and this was a clue that my talent lies in stuff like engineering or computer science. And it was right, I enjoy writing software and I was pretty good at it. But software engineering, IMO, is not nearly as important or meaningful as teaching children and young adults grades 1-9. Yet I get paid multiple times more what the teachers get because our society is so screwed up. And you don't need high IQ to teach children, I would probably suck at it. You would need wisdom, assertiveness, understanding, compassion, patience, integrity, etc. Much more demanding than writing code. But yeah teachers currently are pretty horrible and fail children and induce trauma and neuroticism.

[Yog]

@crab12 I feel very much the same way man.

[Extreme Z7]

I like David Pakman's take on this. He recognizes that this is a matter of who's in charge of private companies and if you don't run YouTube, you just don't get to dictate what counts as content that is allowed on the platform. Libertarian ideals of social media platforms being "neutral" are inherently self-biased and selfish.

He also calls Stephan Molyneux a 'conspiracy theorist' and says Trump's Twitter should also be banned. Both a bit more controversial but I would also stand by them.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Trump's Twitter should also be banned.

Wouldn't be awesome if Trump was forced off Twitter and ended up posting on 4chan? Then the mainstream media would be like, "Today the President says so and so on 4chan."

Trump is basically the 4chan President.

[TrustTheProcess]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Trump is basically the 4chan President.

This is 4chan tier shitposting

[Free Mind]

2 hours ago, louhad said:

This is 4chan tier shitposting

OH how UTTERLY humiliating. I guess it’s really happening then — the collapse of the mighty U.S. It was a good run. Say what you want about America, the achievements of this nation are unprecedentedly grand. From the Wright brothers, to Thomas Edison, to Hollywood, to the top universities in the world, to having nearly half of the entire world’s count of Nobel prizes, and far beyond, we really did shift the trajectory of mankind. But as with all things, this pedestal position will inevitably run its course, as we’re currently witnessing. 

I just don’t get it. How is it possible for any person to be this way. This man is a monumental failure in virtually every spec of analysis of his life. From his multiple bankruptcies to the countless white collar crimes to the millions of lies and coverups of his operations. Like, how the fuck does his psyche work?? Is he just totally unaware of his lies to the point where he genuinely believes his manipulation of the facts is the actual reality? Or is he on some deep level actually somewhat aware of how he’s blatantly distorting reality because he knows the truth of how much of an epic failure he is and how unbearable it would be to face that truth? What is the root of Trump’s motivations? It seems he’s deprived of love and is compensating for it by working hard at constructing this false superior self-image. I patiently await a deep psychological breakdown of how his mind works given his history. 

 

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Free Mind said:

Is he just totally unaware of his lies to the point where he genuinely believes his manipulation of the facts is the actual reality?

Yup

And also he does not consider lying wrong or bad. He considers anything that helps him survive as good, so lies are good. He does not value truth in itself at all, the way you or I might.

Quote

Or is he on some deep level actually somewhat aware of how he’s blatantly distorting reality because he knows the truth of how much of an epic failure he is and how unbearable it would be to face that truth?

Nope

Quote

What is the root of Trump’s motivations?

Blind selfishness

Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

[JosephKnecht]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Wouldn't be awesome if Trump was forced off Twitter and ended up posting on 4chan?

No, it would not be awesome.

That would mean that a corporation that is only liable to a few shareholders has more power than a democratically elected president who was voted in by millions of people. Few shareholders in tweety company should not be able to silence a person that presides over all the laws of the country. 

When a few people rule over many, there is always tyranny.

Don't silence Trump. Vote him out of office. That would be more awesome. 

[Yog]

6 hours ago, Free Mind said:

Is he just totally unaware of his lies to the point where he genuinely believes his manipulation of the facts is the actual reality?

I've come to see that this is a common case for pre-orange folk.

There is no distinction between what happens in ones head and the outer world yet. In short - if i think its that way, than it is that way .

I think this gets resolved at orange, at least it did for me. There is a certain proto-perspective thinking that comes online, like the willingness to walk in someones shoes by copy-pasting a projection of yourself in them, green does it even better by starting to move into people. This is also the reason why skepticism can be so big with orange, the difference between the world and the head-space is acknowledged for the first time.

Trump is far from all that I feel.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

No, it would not be awesome.

That would mean that a corporation that is only liable to a few shareholders has more power than a democratically elected president who was voted in by millions of people. Few shareholders in tweety company should not be able to silence a person that presides over all the laws of the country. 

When a few people rule over many, there is always tyranny.

Don't silence Trump. Vote him out of office. That would be more awesome. 

So Trump can just tweet whatever the hell he wants without repercussions?

What if he tweeted, "Fuck the gays. Fuck the blacks." Twitter should just sit by and allow that?

Line has to be drawn somewhere.