Are animals selfish or selfless?

[DaHonorableCourt]

Contemplated on this question after watching Leo’s last vid.

In one way they are more selfish than humans. For example an animal would never sacrifice himself. But there are plenty of examples of humans who sacrificed themselves.

On the other hand we are more selfish. We create entire narratives around ourselves. We can be narcissistic etc. Animals can’t do this.

Thoughts?

[Chakra Lion]

10 minutes ago, DaHonorableCourt said:

For example an animal would never sacrifice himself. But there are plenty of examples of humans who sacrificed themselves.

Google Altruism in Animals. Certain Spiders let their babies eat them after birth. 

10 minutes ago, DaHonorableCourt said:

On the other hand we are more selfish. We create entire narratives around ourselves. We can be narcissistic etc. Animals can’t do this.

 

Have you ever met a Cat?

[WaveInTheOcean]

Selfish, but they don't have a problem with it. I.e. they dont go around 'worrying' that they are not selfless enough

Edited June 15, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[PlasmicProjection]

2 hours ago, DaHonorableCourt said:

Contemplated on this question after watching Leo’s last vid.

In one way they are more selfish than humans. For example an animal would never sacrifice himself. But there are plenty of examples of humans who sacrificed themselves.

On the other hand we are more selfish. We create entire narratives around ourselves. We can be narcissistic etc. Animals can’t do this.

Thoughts?

Yeah, well it depends on what kind of animal we're talking about. I think a sloth has a very different take on this than monkeys. Haha Speaking of monkeys, even though monkeys are closer to us genetically than a dog. Dogs even wolfs are dolphins are much more evolved than a monkey in the sense that they cooperate a lot more. Their very survival depends on cooperation. Often taking out other large animals such as bison or elk as a pack together. Monkeys eat their own form gangs against each other, and can't be trusted as much as dogs and dolphins.

Given all that. This question reminds of people that post these images of kittens or cats or dogs and say that they are more trusted than other humans. I'm just like pff, if they had just as much free will as us and they had to earn their food in the wild they wouldn't be any better than us. Ultimately I think it's probably like comparing apples and oranges. Ultimately you can't compare the two.  I think it's better to compare human cultures that are successful versus those that are not. That is excluding socioeconomic factors as much as possible. It's much harder to measure something like selfishness in humans and animals I would think. Therefore I wouldn't focus on that too much.

Edited June 15, 2020 by PlasmicProjection

[Leo Gura]

A wild chimp will tear your arms out of your sockets. They are called animals for a reason.

[Girzo]

Yet there are also chimps who take care of the weaker members of the group (mainly alphas do that to gain sympathy) or there's this story of a female chimp who took care of a wounded bird.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Girzo said:

Yet there are also chimps who take care of the weaker members of the group (mainly alphas do that to gain sympathy) or there's this story of a female chimp who took care of a wounded bird.

And there are stories of serial killers being nice to people.

No one is purely evil. Hitler was probably a charming guy most of the time. Loved his dogs. Vegetarian. Etc.

[Girzo]

I like to imagine that chimps now are what people were at Spiral Dynamics stage Beige.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Girzo

[JosephKnecht]

Selfish or Selfless? 

If you take away the Self, will you have fish or less of a fish?  

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

Selfish or Selfless? 

If you take away the Self, will you have fish or less of a fish?  

I like it. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

Animals are very underrated, perhaps they are even immune to suffering because they are so pure.

I was looking at this cat who sits at the window looking at people again, the amount of love in his eyes was unbelievable, I can start to see more of it as the practice deepens.

Edited June 15, 2020 by AlwaysBeNice

[Neuroknot]

Starts talking about animals and infants at 4:57. He talks kinda slow so I put it on 1.75 speed lol

I like the distinction he makes between pre-egoic state and the post-egoic state. 

What do you guys think?

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Neuroknot

[Gesundheit]

Also, are animals rational, irrational, or a-rational? And does rationality = selfishness?

[An young being]

A good example of selfless animal will be dolphins. They love to save people. Unfortunately, from what I believe, some animals are selfless simply because they could survive longer that way. Those genes managed to survive but most animals don't have the selfless character because they were all killed and eaten by selfish creatures.

Human beings are different though, because we are so advanced that nothing can kill us, and we are free to choose whether to be selfish or selfless. But, being selfless, for some reasons, allows us to realize our true nature of self by shutting the deceitful brain and revealing there is no self.