Questions on the Power of Psychedelics

[JosephKnecht]

If all power is projected from You as God, aren't You projecting your power unto psychedelics?

If this assumption is true, aren't You using psychedelics as a trigger to access God state? 

What makes psychedelics such powerful triggers compared to all the other methods? I know psychedelics work for many people and they are faster when compared to meditation. My question is why they work? I understand the biological effect on brain receptors, so I am looking for a metaphysical explanation. 

I know people who have access to psychedelic states only through meditation, so I am curious what makes psychedelics so special? 

[Nak Khid]

23 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

I am curious what makes psychedelics so special? 

depending on the psychedelic you could have very intense hallucinations and altered states of perception  in a matter of seconds 
with no preparation 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Jacobsrw]

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

If all power is projected from You as God, aren't You projecting your power unto psychedelics?

If this assumption is true, aren't You using psychedelics as a trigger to access God state? 

What makes psychedelics such powerful triggers compared to all the other methods? I know psychedelics work for many people and they are faster when compared to meditation. My question is why they work? I understand the biological effect on brain receptors, so I am looking for a metaphysical explanation. 

I know people who have access to psychedelic states only through meditation, so I am curious what makes psychedelics so special? 

You’re thinking of this way too limited. Psychedelics are far beyond biology and psychology. They supersede every known territory of the ordinary state you could imagine, reaching levels of awareness which are unfathomable.

The power of the psychedelic is that it allows you to access forms of imagination the mind is usually unable to access. You enter a state of heightened imagination. Hence why, there is a huge proliferation of imagery and insight.

It is not merely you projecting onto the psychedelic. It is more the psychedelic unpacking the entire construction of reality you have created. Every flaw, inadequacy, fallacy is seen for what is. The psychedelic is doing a rigorous experimentation on you and revealing every aspect of the design you got wrong. It is rather a process of deconstruction. To the point you may deconstruct down to the essence you really are, infinite awareness.

Psychedelic states are accessible through contemplation, mediation or self inquiry. However, this very unlikely for the ordinary being since the mind has a monopoly on every segment of your experience. Every aspect of your experience is mind dominated so the psychedelic reveals this to you quite glaringly.

If you are open to this, the process of realisation can begin.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

so I am curious what makes psychedelics so special?

The paradox is that although materialism is false, material conditions still play a crucial role in determining your experience of reality because physics and chemistry is a very deep layer of the dream.

Psychedelics are powerful for the same reason that the floor you are standing on is powerful enough to keep you from falling through the Earth.

[JosephKnecht]

@Jacobsrw Thanks. I should have prefixed my question with the fact that I have done psychedelics and have had many insights from my trips. They have been useful in untangling my self.

I have also achieved psychedelic states from contemplation only. I've been meditating daily for a few years also. My problem is that the "highs" that I have achieved through work felt much more genuine than the "highs" that I've achieved from psychedelics.

Somehow I feel unworthy of achieving these peak states just by taking a pill. The bliss is too much and I feel I am not deserving of it. Also, the peak states of psychedelics wear off much faster than the ones done with other methods.  

@Leo Gura I understand that material reality runs deep, but psychedelics seem too much of a "cheat-code" out of materialism. Why would God offer such an easy "cheat-code" to himself? Sounds too good to be true.  

It takes thought to untangle your thoughts. It takes awareness to untangle your awareness. It takes something material to untangle materialism. But I still wonder if there is deeper answer than this.

[Nak Khid]

5 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

I have also achieved psychedelic states from contemplation only. I've been meditating daily for a few years also. My problem is that the "highs" that I have achieved through work felt much more genuine than the "highs" that I've achieved from psychedelics.

makyō  is the Japanese word that means "realm of demons/monsters".
In Zen, it is a figurative reference to a  self-delusion that results from clinging to an experience and making a conceptual "nest" out of it for oneself. Makyō is essentially synonymous with illusion, but especially in reference to experiences that can occur within meditation practice.

They are saying it's something that may occur but is passing distraction from no mind. 
That however is just one opinion an may not necessarily be "right" 
However what is your description of this state and did you mediate in an unusual  way when this occurred? 

 

Quote

 I understand that material reality runs deep, but psychedelics seem too much of a "cheat-code" out of materialism. Why would God offer such an easy "cheat-code" to himself? Sounds too good to be true. 

I assume what you mean by this it is the materialism of introducing a chemical to the brain 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

 

@Leo Gura I understand that material reality runs deep, but psychedelics seem too much of a "cheat-code" out of materialism. Why would God offer such an easy "cheat-code" to himself? Sounds too good to be true.  

It is too good to be true.

Fortunately, God just so happens to be Good

Quote

It takes thought to untangle your thoughts. It takes awareness to untangle your awareness. It takes something material to untangle materialism. But I still wonder if there is deeper answer than this.

No. Consciousness untangles all things. And a psychedelic is consciousness.

Yes, it is utterly baffling and astounding. That part is correct.

But don't forget, you are AWLAYS tripping. Your "brain" is always full of chemicals. So materialism is a specific kind of trip. There is so such thing as perception without a chemical medium in biological organisms.

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

If all power is projected from You as God, aren't You projecting your power unto psychedelics?

If this assumption is true, aren't You using psychedelics as a trigger to access God state? 

What makes psychedelics such powerful triggers compared to all the other methods? I know psychedelics work for many people and they are faster when compared to meditation. My question is why they work? I understand the biological effect on brain receptors, so I am looking for a metaphysical explanation. 

I know people who have access to psychedelic states only through meditation, so I am curious what makes psychedelics so special? 

@JosephKnecht remember the dream is an illusion.  Therefore psychedelics are an illusion.  Yes, believe it or not they are an illusion. All finite thought is. As it gets lost in its own dream though,  God has to create a way to remember itself.  A tool.  It can remember itself without anythng of course because it is itself.  But why not imagine something to help itself along the way?

Meditation is a another tool just as powerful in my opinion.  You can awaken deeply though meditation.  Don't let anyone tell ya different.  

One has to be ready or have the foundational understanding.  Then when leveraging one of the tools all God will break loose.

[Jacobsrw]

5 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

@Jacobsrw Thanks. I should have prefixed my question with the fact that I have done psychedelics and have had many insights from my trips. They have been useful in untangling my self.

I have also achieved psychedelic states from contemplation only. I've been meditating daily for a few years also. My problem is that the "highs" that I have achieved through work felt much more genuine than the "highs" that I've achieved from psychedelics.

Somehow I feel unworthy of achieving these peak states just by taking a pill. The bliss is too much and I feel I am not deserving of it. Also, the peak states of psychedelics wear off much faster than the ones done with other methods.  

Well that’s great to hear. A good start as well. Many here criticise psychedelics without even having done them. I’ve done them only once before but had a truly powerful first experience full of many insights.

Of course you are worthy of them. You are existence itself after all. The question should be is the psychedelic worthy of you? 

Maybe it’s more a question of whether you have properly primed yourself for the psychedelic experience. Sometimes psychedelic experiences require having done plenty of practices prior to them. They can be difficult to integrate without the proper preparation and dedication. 

The lacked feeling of genuine “high” you speak of I haven’t experienced perse. But it could be that you are not use to the psychedelic state. Most of our time is spent sober after all. Try very small doses this should help with stabilising a more palpable experience.

[JosephKnecht]

6 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

However what is your description of this state and did you mediate in an unusual  way when this occurred? 

The problem with meditation or contemplation is that it works, but these methods don't give as predictable results as psychedelics.

One day meditation could lead you to the realization of emptiness, while many other days you have no results. When you surrender to contemplation/meditation, it is the process that is in control of you, and you are not in control of the process. Sometimes the process leads to insights, many times it leads nowhere. 

I have achieved states only through contemplation where I was able to "bend" physical reality, but I had no understanding of how I am doing it. I only had the awareness that I am doing it. 

7 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

I assume what you mean by this it is the materialism of introducing a chemical to the brain 

 

Yes. Chemicals to the brain seem like a "cheat-code" out of the system of materialism.  

[JosephKnecht]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@JosephKnecht remember the dream is an illusion.  Therefore psychedelics are an illusion.  Yes, believe it or not they are an illusion. All finite thought is. As it gets lost in its own dream though,  God has to create a way to remember itself.  A tool.  It can remember itself without anythng of course because it is itself.  But why not imagine something to help itself along the way?

Meditation is a another tool just as powerful in my opinion.  You can awaken deeply though meditation.  Don't let anyone tell ya different.  

One has to be ready or have the foundational understanding.  Then when leveraging one of the tools all God will break loose.

I know that God has to create a way to remember itself, but why give such an easy and powerful way?

But if he didn't imagine psychedelics I would probably be asking why God didn't give us an easy way.  

Meditation has been a very powerful method for me. 

[JosephKnecht]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But don't forget, you are AWLAYS tripping. Your "brain" is always full of chemicals. So materialism is a specific kind of trip. There is so such thing as perception without a chemical medium in biological organisms.

Let me ask the question from a different perspective. These questions will be asked from the relative Ego perspective. 

Why did the psychedelic revolution happen 50 years ago and didn't happen 5 centuries ago or 15 centuries ago?

If God had always possessed an easy way to access himself, why would he deny that access to people for so long?

Why would Socrates have to question everything to arrive at Nothing, while he could have just licked a toad to arrive at Nothing?  

The answer from the absolute would be that God IS. Things are the WAY they ARE. 

But what would be the answer from the relative Ego perspective? 

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

I know that God has to create a way to remember itself, but why give such an easy and powerful way?

But if he didn't imagine psychedelics I would probably be asking why God didn't give us an easy way.

You don't get the depth of the problem.

God is not trying to hide itself from you, as if playing some sick game.

God wants nothing more than to reveal itself to you as quickly and directly as possible. But you are too AFRAID to look at God.

FEAR is the only obstacle. So God must patiently wait for you to muster the courage to look at yourself.

God gave mankind psychedelics, and mankind spat in God's face by rejecting them and demonizing them out of FEAR.

So God went: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The entire human race could have awoken long ago had psychedelics not been outlawed and demonized for thousands of years by egos out of greed, selfishness, fear, power, and sex.

Mankind is doing all this to itself. Out of fear and selfishness.

God can only give mankind a gift it is willing to receive.

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

The problem with meditation or contemplation is that it works, but these methods don't give as predictable results as psychedelics.

One day meditation could lead you to the realization of emptiness, while many other days you have no results. When you surrender to contemplation/meditation, it is the process that is in control of you, and you are not in control of the process. Sometimes the process leads to insights, many times it leads nowhere. 

I have achieved states only through contemplation where I was able to "bend" physical reality, but I had no understanding of how I am doing it. I only had the awareness that I am doing it. 

Yes. Chemicals to the brain seem like a "cheat-code" out of the system of materialism.  

On aspect to this is if you use mindfulness meditations techniques these are not intended to produce  psychedelic type experiences.  They are supposed to produce high states of awareness and clarity 
- and accidentally one might sometimes have a hallucination.  This is regarded by many Buddhists as makyō a momentary delusion, a distraction.  Not something bad but something not especially significant. 
However if you wanted to meditate and have  hallucination states that can be induced by with different meditation techniques and physical body methods.    

Edited June 8, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Marten]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't get the depth of the problem.

God is not trying to hide itself from you, as if playing some sick game.

God wants nothing more than to reveal itself to you as quickly and directly as possible. But you are too AFRAID to look at God.

FEAR is the only obstacle. So God must patiently wait for you to muster the courage to look at yourself.

God gave mankind psychedelics, and mankind spat in God's face by rejecting them and demonizing them out of FEAR.

So God went: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The entire human race could have awoken long ago had psychedelics not been outlawed and demonized for thousands of years by egos out of greed, selfishness, fear, power, and sex.

Mankind is doing all this to itself. Out of fear and selfishness.

God can only give mankind a gift it is willing to receive.

LOL! Love this!

"The brave man dares to be alone with God."

[JosephKnecht]

39 minutes ago, Marten said:

LOL! Love this!

"The brave man dares to be alone with God."

The idiots dare to try infinite ways to be together with others.

I know I am an idiot for trying other ways when psychedelics work, but what else am I to do?  I am an idiot.

Let the brave men be brave. Let the idiots be idiots. 

If God created infinite ways to find himself, is he brave or is he an idiot?

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by JosephKnecht
addition

[billiesimon]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The paradox is that although materialism is false, material conditions still play a crucial role in determining your experience of reality because physics and chemistry is a very deep layer of the dream.

Psychedelics are powerful for the same reason that the floor you are standing on is powerful enough to keep you from falling through the Earth.

From my experience with psychedelics and glimpses of awakening, it seems like psychedelics are just random chemicals just like water, rocks, iron, bleach etc.... 
They have no special powers.

It's just that God decided that some particular chemicals can be used as a catalyst for awakening, but it's completely random. There's no actual meaning behind the chemical formula of psychedelics. It's just a movie basically.

At least that's what I feel when I use them and awaken.

[Nahm]

@JosephKnecht

The Big Bang is conceptual, a parent is apparent, & “you” is conceived. ‘It’s’ all a back story for the experience of this moment which doesn’t exist, which is why it needs a back story, to seem real. Psychedelics are the breadcrumbs of Hansel & Gretel, of Adam & Eve, of mom & dad, of nothing, and no one. They ‘eat themselves’.  

[zeroISinfinity]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@JosephKnecht

The Big Bang is conceptual, a parent is apparent, & “you” is conceived. ‘It’s’ all a back story for the experience of this moment which doesn’t exist, which is why it needs a back story, to seem real. Psychedelics are the breadcrumbs of Hansel & Gretel, of Adam & Eve, of mom & dad, of nothing, and no one. They ‘eat themselves’.  

Oh boyo I like this. First and foremost it is Absolutelly True. 

Second why the heck Dream itself dreams about it's total deconstraction. 

Love can be very paradoxical. 

So boyo Absolute state of Conciosness as permanent "residence" most likely... Leads to that I guess. 

So in a sense Jed completelly understands me wow, who would tell. 

Way deeper then I might guessed. 

I said he is fishy can't fool me. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[JosephKnecht]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@JosephKnecht

The Big Bang is conceptual, a parent is apparent, & “you” is conceived. ‘It’s’ all a back story for the experience of this moment which doesn’t exist, which is why it needs a back story, to seem real. Psychedelics are the breadcrumbs of Hansel & Gretel, of Adam & Eve, of mom & dad, of nothing, and no one. They ‘eat themselves’.  

@Nahm There is somehow more in your words that meets the eye. Amazing. Thank you