Debunking Solipsism confusion All is one in a positive way

[Galyna]

4 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura you said one time 

We need a video about this topic. What you are talking about here in this thread sounds just like pure solipsism for me. I can understand that from absolute truth everything is one and therefore god as pure solipsim. But in the relative world where every person is in dual world, how is there solipsim?

Of course I imagine everyone but when I talk to someone which I imagine, this person is also imagine me as a person. Am I correct?

 

Good luck, my friend. I am trying hard to grasp it since the time this forum exists. I still can not. 

Leo is saying it is not possible to grasp it from the paradigm of the individual separated ego. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Galyna

[Galyna]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura you said one time 

We need a video about this topic. What you are talking about here in this thread sounds just like pure solipsism for me. I can understand that from absolute truth everything is one and therefore god as pure solipsim. But in the relative world where every person is in dual world, how is there solipsim?

Of course I imagine everyone but when I talk to someone which I imagine, this person is also imagine me as a person. Am I correct?

 

If the person you are imagining does not exist, he can not imagine you back, simply because he is a plot of your imagination. Imagine a chair right now, and what? Is the chair imagining you as well? Of course not. What is the different between the person and the chair?

[Gsk]

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Leo is saying it is not possible to grasp it from the paradigm of the individual separated ego. 

By definition, Ego is separate. But separate from what? Is it not everything else that exists, everything else that is real?  If there is nothing for it to be separate from, then why the fuck is it defined as separate? According to the delusional narcissist that runs this site, your ego, your individual point of view is the only one that exists.

[Galyna]

1 minute ago, Gsk said:

By definition, Ego is separate. But separate from what? Is it not everything else that exists, everything else that is real?  If there is nothing for it to be separate from, then why the fuck is it defined as separate? According to the delusional narcissist that runs this site, your ego, your individual point of view is the only one that exists.

Okay, will shall stop here, we do not assault people on this forum. Otherwise you will be banned. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

21 minutes ago, Galyna said:

I am not getting it still, is there only one ego at a time? how can you exist now simultaneously with me? It is either you or me. Not sure.....

Leo would tell me to get 5-MEO to grasp it, lol

That’s what did it for me, haha. 
 

The problem is that the finite mind cannot grapple with paradox, so you need to transcend the mind to understand.  But even saying that you’ll “understand” it is not even accurate. More accurate to say you must become the paradox. 

[Galyna]

@The Lucid Dreamer Thank you  

[OBEler]

@Galyna the person has the imaginated ability to imagine me back. the chair does not have this imaginated function. thats the difference.

[Galyna]

@OBEler Nope, you are ascribing cognitive capacities to an imaginary person. You do not have any ability to check if the person is real or a part of your imagination. I wish it would be that simple . You assume by default that other people are real, but how do you know? Just because they speak back to you.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura you said one time 

We need a video about this topic. What you are talking about here in this thread sounds just like pure solipsism for me.

Like I said, the mind cannot fathom Awakening so it tries to fit it into some category it knows, like solipsism.

Awakening is not solipsism, but it's also true that you/God is the only thing that exists. So to you that sounds like solipsism and you can't tell the difference.

Quote

I can understand that from absolute truth everything is one and therefore god as pure solipsim. But in the relative world where every person is in dual world, how is there solipsim?

To create that distinction between the absolute and the relative is already a mistake. The relative isn't real. Only the absolute.

Yeah, if you want to qualify as "relative", then we can say that you are not alone. But this is precisely the illusion which we're trying to transcend.

It's sort of like if you said, "Yeah, I understand that Santa Claus isn't real in the absolute sense. But in the relative world he's real." Okay, but what we're interested in is the absolute sense here, not the relative world of illusions. As an illusion, sure, everyone you know seems "real".

Quote

Of course I imagine everyone but when I talk to someone which I imagine, this person is also imagining me as a person. Am I correct?

No, you're not correct.

You imagine that there is a person who imagines you. But actually there is only you imagining others imagining you.

When you talk to someone you imagine, you are imagining that person's body too, not just their mind.

To put frame it another way, your imagination is so powerful it IS reality! Right now you're still under the dualistic illusion that there is a difference between imagination and reality. As if imagination is somehow inferior or bad. But the difference between reality and imagination is itself something you imagine! This is what allows you/God to create reality out of thin air. Ta-da!

Where did all the people you know come from? They were NOT born from biological parents. They were imagined by your mind! If you stop imagining them, they will cease to exist.

What makes Awakening very different than classical solipsism is the God part. Classical solipsism has no recognition of self as God. Once you reach God-consciousness, the solipsism stuff becomes pretty irrelevant because you are so amazed at yourself as God.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

@OBEler Nope, you are ascribing cognitive capacities to an imaginary person. You do not have any ability to check if the person is real or a part of your imagination. I wish it would be that simple . You assume by default that other people are real, but how do you know? Just because they speak back to you.

@Galyna This is because God is Absolute Infinity and Infinity requires that God experience life from all perspectives, including the perspectives of whatever humans or creatures you imagine.  Of course ultimately, you as God can only and are only interacting with yourself when you are interacting with “others”. But the perspective of the “other” exists, only because Infinity requires that all perspectives and imaginings be played out.  They are none other than you. But you as God has/will/are experiencing all other perspectives at once.  

[Galyna]

43 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

But you as God has/will/are experiencing all other perspectives at once.  

Finally, I have a peace and am complete and satisfied with all the answers. I just can not wrap my mind around the suggestion that God imagines all the perspectives simultaneously. Means “others’ nows” should exist separately . I can’t understand how. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Galyna

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@Galyna Contemplate what Now means.  Is there ever a time where it was not Now?

 Even for people who lived 2000 years ago (relative to our lives), it is still Now. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@Galyna You are the Now is what I’m trying to say.  

When you get down to the very bottom of what is it that you actually are, what you’ll find is that what you are, is not any of the concepts you attach to yourself, but that all you are is raw consciousness itself. Your consciousness and my consciousness is not similar, but PERFECTLY identical. Not talking about the contents of consciousness, but the consciousness itself, being the feeling of felt experience; the very sense of being.  That is absolutely perfectly one hundred percent identical across all things. And despite all the perceived differences within our consciousness, the one thing that it all has in common is that it is all happening right now. Your now and my now are the exact same now. 

[Galyna]

26 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Your now and my now are the exact same now. 

But you are outside of my perception. My now is the most evident and obvious than yours. I feel like I am the only one real ego/God that exists and imagines everything and everyone at this point. To me you are not real with your now. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Galyna

[Galyna]

27 minutes ago, Da77en said:

If everyone is being imagined, what is the point of Leo teaching imaginary people the ultimate truth? If the people who you are talking to aren't conscious then what's the point of teaching?

Lol, good question. 
well...he said one time, he is from the matrix, trying to give you a hint, to awaken you so to speak. From your focal point is not real, but helping you with info to evoke. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Galyna said:

Means “others’ nows” should exist separately . I can’t understand how. 

The very notion of a self or an other is imaginary. People assume that self and other are like fixed quantities in the universe. They are not. Self and other only exist if they are imagined to exist.

Think of it this way. Before a painter paints a painting of other people, there is no self or other on the canvas. Other has to be painted to exist. Self has to be painted to exist. Otherwise it's just a single canvas. You are not the painted self, you are the whole canvas.

2 hours ago, Da77en said:

If everyone is being imagined, what is the point of Leo teaching imaginary people the ultimate truth? If the people who you are talking to aren't conscious then what's the point of teaching?

There isn't. I'm just playing games with myself because there's nothing better to do.

Life would be boring if I didn't buy into any illusions at all. It's like playing a flight simulator. You know crashing the virtual plane makes no difference at all. Yet you still try to fly carefully, avoiding virtual trees and stuff.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

14 minutes ago, Galyna said:

But you are outside of my perception. My now is the most evident and obvious than yours. I feel like I am the only one real ego/God that exists and imagines everything and everyone at this point. To me you are not real with your now. 

The problem is that you still think there is such a thing as You.  When you can look past the illusion of the self, you will understand.  

You have no identity, therefore you are all identities.  

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

The problem is that you still think there is such a thing as You.  When you can look past the illusion of the self, you will understand.  

You have no identity, therefore you are all identities.  

That's exactly right.

Self and other are defined relative to each other. So a person who has never seen outside the self cannot really understand what other is. To erase other is also to erase one's self. Which puts you face to face with death. The mind cannot intellectually go there.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Well, since you're god you'll eventually experience what it's like to be me, posting this comment - or maybe you already have. The scenario of being me exists in infinity  So Leo responding to me still "does" something because you're creating an experience that will eventually be experienced in both perspectives; being the one questioning and the one responding, but on the other hand it still doesn't really matter at all because infinity is infinity. I am you, we are just separated from each other due to god experiencing infinity. Is what I am saying aligning with the truth?

Not from my level of consciousness.

I am conscious that there is only me, and nothing else, with no future and no past. Teaching you is completely an illusion. But, hey, the game must go on.

[charles1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The very notion of a self or an other is imaginary. People assume that self and other are like fixed quantities in the universe. They are not. Self and other only exist if they are imagined to exist.

Think of it this way. Before a painter paints a painting of other people, there is self or other on the canvas. Other has to be painted to exist. Self has to be painted to exist. Otherwise it's just a single canvas. You are not the painted self, you are the whole canvas.

There isn't. I'm just playing games with myself because there's nothing better to do.

Life would be boring if I didn't buy into any illusions at all. It's like playing a flight simulator. You know crashing the virtual plane makes no difference at all. Yet you still try to fly carefully, avoiding virtual trees and stuff.

Fucking paradox...  Don't make any sense from my perspective...  If I buy into it, It means that the "Leo" character I imagine is so well imagined that he is conscious of the fact that there is only him and no Me to learn from him. ???????? 

And for the reader of this comment ( if I'm not talking to myself ), there is a triple paradox and the "Charles1" character is so well imagined that it images a "Leo" character that is conscious that nothing but him exist ????? ?????? ???? ???? 

 

I think I simply can't fathom it from my relative perspective.