No Perceivers in Reality?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

@Serotoninluv This is an interesting thought that I have contemplated many times: what would a color that was never perceived before look life? If that shrimp can hallucinate additional colors humans cannot, would that then make it possible to have access to extra-ordinary colors during a psychedelic breakthrough? Maybe during the breakthrough you could perceive these colors but once returned you have no working recollection of what they looked like. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, TDW1995 said:

In order to remove personalization, I guess I need to be clear what I think is the "I."  This enlightenment exercise tells me it can't be a point-perceiver.

The I is absolutely everything and nothing.

But it is pretending to be located in the body.

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

@Serotoninluv This is an interesting thought that I have contemplated many times: what would a color that was never perceived before look life? If that shrimp can hallucinate additional colors humans cannot, would that then make it possible to have access to extra-ordinary colors during a psychedelic breakthrough? Maybe during the breakthrough you could perceive these colors but once returned you have no working recollection of what they looked like. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. 

The color wheel is already both limited and infinite. 

[TDW1995]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But it is pretending to be located in the body.

@Leo Gura Sure seems convincing. This body being several feet away from my car outside, makes me think "I" am several feet away from my car outside.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, TDW1995 said:

@Leo Gura Sure seems convincing. This body being several feet away from my car outside, makes me think "I" am several feet away from my car outside.

You are the car and everything else. You are the whole bubble of the visual field, not any one part of it.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

@Serotoninluv This is an interesting thought that I have contemplated many times: what would a color that was never perceived before look life? If that shrimp can hallucinate additional colors humans cannot, would that then make it possible to have access to extra-ordinary colors during a psychedelic breakthrough? Maybe during the breakthrough you could perceive these colors but once returned you have no working recollection of what they looked like. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. 

That's an intriguing question, particularly because it combines physical and non-physical. Plus, I don't know - it's mysterious to me.

Below is just some exploration of ideas. I'm not trying to say "this is how it is".

From a more physical pov, external wavelengths of light get interpreted as color. While on psychedelics, the wavelengths don't change, yet the mind's interpretation of the colors may change. It gets tricky because. . . does the mind now have the ability to create novel colors in spite of being limited to these visual neural networks? Based on "regular" visual neural networks, I would say no. However, new combinations of neural activity can arise with psychedelics.

What I find most interesting here. . . a large portion of the visual system is not "external", it's internal activity. Internally, the mind creates visual "mind maps" so the brain doesn't constantly have to interpret external visual information. For example, things like buildings, parked cars etc. are mostly crude internal mind maps. There was an experiment in which statues with concave faces were place on a city street. No passerbys even noticed, all the faces appeared as convex shaped due to mind maps. Even when people were told the faces were concave, people didn't believe it. They had to actually put their hand into the face to convince themselves. . . And. . . people that have been put in dark room solitary confinement can hallucinate - not like dreams - like they are actually seeing stuff like trees, grass etc. . . 

Psychedelics massively alters brain/mind activity, so I would say entirely new internal visual perceptions can be created. There are entirely new neural interactions - parts of the brain that have never interacted together before. This gets into a metaphysical realm. . . At a personal level, I've done certain psychedelics that made colors so vibrant that it's an entirely different level. Yet are the colors simply "richer"? Or are new colors manifesting?. . . I tripped in the center square of Antigua Guatemala and the colorful clothing and building where other worldly. The next day I went back at the exact same time and it was an entirely different color experience. It seemed like shades of grey to me. In a way, it was depressing. 

One of my favorite parts of certain psychedelics is color experience. 

[VeganAwake]

45 minutes ago, TDW1995 said:

In order to remove personalization, I guess I need to be clear what I think is the "I."  This enlightenment exercise tells me it can't be a point-perceiver.

Well the 'I' is the illusion...

And the 'I' that thinks it needs to get clear about what the 'I' is, is that same illusion.

Recognize the 'I' is just a compilation of beliefs perceptions ideas thoughts and labels you have allowed yourself to believe since a young age.

When this becomes recognized there can be an energetic shift and the 'I' can fall away and its energy seems to fall back into the infinite energy source.

 

[TDW1995]

@VeganAwake When you really think about it, it's ludicrous to think we are a time-bound thought-based self. This would include ideas, labels, beliefs, and our self-image derived from the past. The reason being because no moment exists outside the now. How could a thought from the past be me or a part of me?

[VeganAwake]

18 minutes ago, TDW1995 said:

@VeganAwake When you really think about it, it's ludicrous to think we are a time-bound thought-based self. This would include ideas, labels, beliefs, and our self-image derived from the past. The reason being because no moment exists outside the now. How could a thought from the past be me or a part of me?

Yes absolutely you're onto something now... keep exploring this, maybe something will happen maybe not... either way you're always perfect whole and complete and that's always been the case ?

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, TDW1995 said:

@Leo Gura it sure feels like it relies on a perceiver, otherwise it wouldn't exist (for example,

Precisely...thus the question if a tree falls in the forest with no one around does it make a sound should bother you if there is any chance for you in this work. (Not you personally)

It makes no sense according to the materialist paradigm.  Yet if it is consciousness itself - if it exists for itself because it is itself - well...now we are talking! 

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

...Well the 'I' is the illusion...

That’d make a sweet t shirt. 

 

[VeganAwake]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

That’d make a sweet t shirt. 

 

Agreed...