Adam M

Leo's Live Awakening Video is Freaking Profound

114 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Stakres said:

Have you considered the possibility that the non-dual state is just a temporary experience and the "ego state" is the truth, the natural state?

Its all Truth actually.  Its One.

But in a mystical non-dual state the self and other duality collapses and all separation (duality) collapses and thus is seen through as imaginary/illusion.  It is pure Divinity, and it is realized that the small self is imaginary/illusion and in fact there is only One. (Infinite Mind or Consciousness)  But that through illusion/imagination a "physical" reality is created.   

There are many spiritual teachers out there that do not embrace duality because it isnt "real" and therefore doesn't "exist".  ..But what they miss is that it exists as imagination.  All there is to formed reality is imagination - so there is no difference between real and imaginary. 

So it should be embraced.  It is how the One that is formless and is everything simultaneously can know itself by experiencing itself in a "linear" (time) fashion.  


"It's Just Consciousness.  It's just You.  It was always you!"

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Stakres said:

Have you considered the possibility that the non-dual state is just a temporary experience and the "ego state" is the truth, the natural state?

LOL


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 hours ago, Stakres said:

Have you considered the possibility that the non-dual state is just a temporary experience and the "ego state" is the truth, the natural state?

This.

'Ego' is merely Latin for 'I'

Anything else is just confusion.


"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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On 1/28/2020 at 0:07 PM, Mattie said:

i have this experience as well when im on drugs but when you get sober you realize its all in your own mind and your ego is making sense of it all

Is not your "sober mind" trying to make sense of it all by rationalizing that an "ego mind" is making sense of a "psychedelic mind"?  

Have you tripped sober?

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3 hours ago, Stakres said:

Have you considered the possibility that the non-dual state is just a temporary experience and the "ego state" is the truth, the natural state?

Says the ego.:)


“You don’t have problems; you are the problem.”

– Swami Chinmayananda

Namaste 🙏 🕉

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My point is: to say something is truth one has to consider multiple models of describing the truth.

Model 1: non-dual state is the natural state

Model 2: non-dual state is just a temporary experience

 

Now, to find out which model describes reality better, we have to test both possibilities.

I feel like many people find evidence for model 1 in their experiences (psychedelic trips, meditation, self-inquiry) and that's awesome.

What I'm suggesting is that maybe more people should consider exploring all their experiences day-to-day and questioning if their experiences fit into model 2.

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@Stakres

Well what is your current paradigm?  Do you believe that reality is physical, made of matter, and objective? In other words that there is a you over here that is physical and real and then there is everything else out there somewhere?  And that consciousness is happening inside the brain?

If you do then really what is being said isn't going to make much sense to you coming from that paradigm.   You would really need a direct realization via a mystical state of consciousness that would shatter this paradigm before any of this could make sense to you.  At that point the question itself would dissolve and there would not even be a need to ask this.


"It's Just Consciousness.  It's just You.  It was always you!"

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stakres said:

My point is: to say something is truth one has to consider multiple models of describing the truth.

Model 1: non-dual state is the natural state

Model 2: non-dual state is just a temporary experience

Truth is NOT a model or a description of any kind.

You cannot have alternative versions of Truth. Truth is singular and absolute.

Nonduality is not a state either.

You are not appreciating how radical this thing called "Truth" is. Your mind cannot hold it, it holds your mind.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you do then really what is being said isn't going to make much sense to you coming from that paradigm.   You would really need a direct realization via a mystical state of consciousness that would shatter this paradigm before any of this could make sense to you.  At that point the question itself would dissolve and there would not even be a need to ask this.

I've had those mystical states. I was following Leo and this forum and I used to describe those states through the model that others used here: it's conscioussness. I used the conscioussness model for multiple years. I did all the practices suggested in this forum. I went deep.

A few months ago I changed my model: now I describe myself as a human primate and everything that comes with it. It turned out that I didn't loose anything. This model can describe all those mystical experiences too and additionally other people have cross-checked this model and have been able to describe reality accurately through this model.

I'm not saying that my model is right. I'm just saying that it might be beneficial to consider other models. If more reviewed evidence comes out to support the conscioussness model, I'll be all over it. I can see the benefit of using the conscioussness model, and I suggest that it's not the only option.

 

 

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth is NOT a model or a description of any kind.

I agree. Truth just is.

When we try to describe the truth, we have to use language or some model, so that others can understand what we are talking about.

Model: this describes reality. It can be "everything is conscioussness" or "everything in the world is material" or "we are apes" or "everything is atoms" or "everything is nothing" or "everything is made out of apple pie" or "everything is an illusion" etc.

Truth: that's reality. The model points to reality.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there can be different models that all point to truth. And they all have a place to be. Some models might be a bit better at predicting reality. I'm suggesting that it might be good to consider other models of reality that people are not used to hearing here.

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4 minutes ago, Stakres said:

I'm suggesting that it might be good to consider other models of reality that people are not used to hearing here.

Telling people to consider that ego is truth is just silliness, though.

We are not here to be democratic with the devil. We are here to reach for Truth.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Leo Gura Just watching it now....GREAT VIDEO! 🙏🏻😂♥️

LOL, thanks man.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Telling people to consider that ego is truth is just silliness, though.

I don't think I said that ego is "truth". I suggested to explore the model where the non-dual mystical states are just a temporary experience. It's a model for me, not truth itself. As you said before, truth is not a description or a model. Models point to something.

 

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We are not here to be democratic with the devil. We are here to reach for Truth.

I agree. I advise people to go all in on your teachings and other teachings and find out for themselves. Find out what works for them. Maybe your model will bring them further, maybe not. Only their direct experience can show. Maybe some day the bubble will pop.

Anyway, I made my point and I think it's more than enough food for thought from me.

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12 minutes ago, Stakres said:

I suggested to explore the model where the non-dual mystical states are just a temporary experience.

Nonduality is not a model or a temporary experience.

You're wasting time with this. Stop trying to model nonduality. This an absurdity by definition.

A Zen master would slap you across the face at this point because you are lost in your mind and being stubborn about it.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're wasting time with this. Stop trying to model nonduality. This an absurdity by definition.

Maybe you are right.

 

I have a genuine question. I seriously want to know the answer.

Do you think it is possible that something happens or you have a new insight, which totally changes how you view truth? Would you be open to another possibility if you came to the realization or someone was able to convince you about it?

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@Stakres  you are right in that there are multiple models of truth that people should consider to stay open minded.

   The issue that follows is two fold: these are 'modals' about truth, and confusing ego for 'true self/I AM'.

   Every modal about truth and frankly anything in reality is partial. It's partial as long as it's an idea. And you can create modals that don't even need to directly interact with reality( modal about gravity vs modal about fleminitynityle): your mind is powerful enough to conceptualize anything and twist it to suit it's survival. Furthermore, through repetition, the modal is made into a belief with a list of justifications for the belief, further complicating things, and all this eventually becomes unconscious. And there are many ways to realize this.

   If you've had mystical experiences, getting glimpses, depending on the method, it sounds like you had the one were the self dissolves in a moment, revealing the SELF, then self rapidly reforms whilst you're basking in it. Somewhere along the way, you're so amazed at it, it becomes concept, and repeatedly justified as 'true self', becoming a belief you cling to. common mistake.

   Solutions simple: question your modals, keeping in mind that it's relative, keep open minded, and now work on realizing the 'no-self', however you get there.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Stakres said:

Do you think it is possible that something happens or you have a new insight, which totally changes how you view truth? Would you be open to another possibility if you came to the realization or someone was able to convince you about it?

No, because I am the Truth. End of story.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, because I am the Truth. End of story.

<3 

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1 hour ago, Stakres said:

Do you think it is possible that something happens or you have a new insight, which totally changes how you view truth? 

Truth is Being itself.  Its rockbottom and prior to thought.  You ARE It.  You are Consciousness yourself you just have to become conscious of it.  When you become conscious that you are consciousness the two fuse into One.  Game over.

No further questions or doubts because that is all second order and Truth / Being is first order.   The ego is second order and will attempt to deceive you though, so watch out.


"It's Just Consciousness.  It's just You.  It was always you!"

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stakres said:

Maybe you are right.

 

I have a genuine question. I seriously want to know the answer.

Do you think it is possible that something happens or you have a new insight, which totally changes how you view truth? Would you be open to another possibility if you came to the realization or someone was able to convince you about it?

@Stakres You seem to be asking a lot questions, but not getting the answers you strive for. Could it be because...

"I have"

"I want"

... ? ^_^ You're giving so much authority away. Don't be a slave.

Edited by SirVladimir

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