A Direct Example of the Dangers of Spiritual Work

[Rebeca Lopez]

In my opinion You dont have to give up your life a second in the absolute is enough, you are alive for a reason

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Liberation means I don't have to do anything. Liberation means I could kill a baby and still realize I am love.

Love is not limited to human survival requirements, ideals, morals, or good or bad actions. Love is absolutely unconditional.

My job is to share insights about reality.

To try to save people would make me attached to outcomes in an unhealthy way and be the opposite of liberation, leading to devilry.

It would be wise to notice that when you try really hard to do good, you end up creating evil. Which is why the wisest people do not feel a need to save anyone.

I like this insight.

I noticed I wasn't going to save people with my cool ideas about reality.

How would you serve the greater good? By sharing your insights?

How would I serve the greater good? By sharing my labor of love without trying hard to save people?

Edited October 22, 2019 by CreamCat

[Conscious life]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not my job to save people.

Definitely. 

[Conscious life]

2 hours ago, jimwell said:

But you talked about infinite love and being more loving. Above all, you proclaimed your highest goal, liberation (being jesus-like). So why is it not your job to help or save humans? You made me confused. And now I'm suspicious about your motives.

It's look like a low consciousness Manipulations, even though you don't know what you are doing. 

Leo isn't a doctor.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, remember said:

yes, mh then love is also just a oneway road, isn`t it?

One and two are one. And two.

[Danioover9000]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:02 PM, jimwell said:

This is a direct example of the dangers of spiritual work.

This is personal to me. My grandmother was a very religious person who abandoned her husband, money, and family to be a good "christian. But she too got psychotic instead. She had delusions and hallucinations just like this guy above.

1. Why does pursuing enlightenment often lead to psychosis?

2. What's the difference between enlightenment and psychosis?

1

1. Because enlightenment deals with realizing what YOU are. Go research enlightenment and contemplate it.

2. To really understand this you should contemplate enlightenment and psychosis separately first, and research each one for yourself.

   If this spiritual work is too much for you, go focus on more basic personal development. Balance between awakening and development.

[remember]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

One and two are one. And two.

at least as far as that i can do some calculus.

[mandyjw]

Spirituality is about becoming conscious of what you've been unconscious of, bringing to light everything you've been repressing and sometimes when those monsters get unleashed they play themselves out for a bit. It's not a linear path, you appear to go forward and backward. Sometimes we are afraid of what we see, but it is it less dangerous to stumble around in the dark your whole life? The only person spirituality is threatening to doesn't exist. It's appears to be happening on its own but nothing is happening at all. 

[Danioover9000]

6 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Spirituality is about becoming conscious of what you've been unconscious of, bringing to light everything you've been repressing and sometimes when those monsters get unleashed they play themselves out for a bit. It's not a linear path, you appear to go forward and backward. Sometimes we are afraid of what we see, but it is it less dangerous to stumble around in the dark your whole life? The only person spirituality is threatening to doesn't exist. It's appears to be happening on its own but nothing is happening at all. 

   Sounds more like psychology and demonology wrapped into one. 

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Sounds more like psychology and demonology wrapped into one. 

 Nonduality means psychosis, spirits/demons, repression, trauma, depression, malaise, etc is all the very same illusion. 

[Danioover9000]

43 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 Nonduality means psychosis, spirits/demons, repression, trauma, depression, malaise, etc is all the very same illusion. 

     Ok then, if that's how you define non-duality

     But good telling bananas and oranges that. They seem to not like this oneness business at all.

[mandyjw]

@Danioover9000 I told them and they didn't argue with me. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@jimwell

Paranoid schizophrenia, with bi-polar episodes, messiah complex.

The man is ill, it would be silly to connect spiritual practice as a cause to this, as this is only one case.

What if he liked vanilla ice cream, would that make vanilla ice cream dangerous?

 

He clearly didn't understand spirituality conceptually, but only filled his head with a bunch of ideas, which is a sure way to get confused. I guess it takes some sort of spiritual intelligence, and proper mindfulness and contemplation to be able to do it right, which he clearly lacks.

 

Awakening is not psychosis, but the opposite. Psychosis is a result of low-consciousness and compulsive thinking.

It is however not far from going crazy, if you looked at it from a psychiatric, mental health close minded and biased paradigm.

Just look at the definition of "going crazy". It's losing ones grip on reality, but what if there was no such thing in the first place. The fear of going crazy is close to the fear of death, which is a loss of oneself and ones' existence.

As a matter of fact, there's not any other way to be sane, but through deep spiritual practice.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[jimwell]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:20 PM, Red-White-Light said:

@jimwell I had a phycosis because of extreme stress, grief, and insomnia all at once. My sleep issues may have been related to kundalini, but I don't know for certain.

Did you do psychedelics? Which came first, kundalini or the psychosis? 

[jimwell]

On 10/23/2019 at 0:36 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

@jimwell

Paranoid schizophrenia, with bi-polar episodes, messiah complex.

The man is ill, it would be silly to connect spiritual practice as a cause to this, as this is only one case.

What if he liked vanilla ice cream, would that make vanilla ice cream dangerous?

 

He clearly didn't understand spirituality conceptually, but only filled his head with a bunch of ideas, which is a sure way to get confused. I guess it takes some sort of spiritual intelligence, and proper mindfulness and contemplation to be able to do it right, which he clearly lacks.

I have seen a few people here in this forum who got psychotic after doing psychedelics (or other drugs) and meditation. And as I have clearly mentioned in the post, my grandmother tried to be like jesus by abandoning her family, money and giving 'selflessly" to others. She also went to church every day. But she ended up psychotic. It's silly you missed that one.

[jimwell]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:22 PM, Danioover9000 said:

1. Because enlightenment deals with realizing what YOU are. Go research enlightenment and contemplate it.

2. To really understand this you should contemplate enlightenment and psychosis separately first, and research each one for yourself.

   If this spiritual work is too much for you, go focus on more basic personal development. Balance between awakening and development.

Sound like Sheila of Antelope.

[jimwell]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

Love is not limited to human survival requirements, ideals, morals, or good or bad actions. Love is absolutely unconditional.

I can't see it but I'm open to the possibility that it's true because I am limited to my senses and consciousness. I'll investigate it in the future.

On 10/22/2019 at 5:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

It would be wise to notice that when you try really hard to do good, you end up creating evil. Which is why the wisest people do not feel a need to save anyone.

 Could you give a clear example?

On 10/22/2019 at 5:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

Liberation means I don't have to do anything. Liberation means I could kill a baby and still realize I am love.

To try to save people would make me attached to outcomes in an unhealthy way and be the opposite of liberation, leading to devilry.

But watching humans suffer and dying and not giving a fuck is itself devilry.

Why are you promoting  Bernie Sanders? Because it's your way to save humans, right?

Jesus embodied liberation but he never said it was not his job to save humans. He was even willing to die as a result of his "infinite" love for humans.

Where's the sense in the things you're saying? 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, jimwell said:

Could you give a clear example?

1) Fundamentalist Christians indoctrinate children into their ideology under the belief that they are saving the children from evil. Yet they are doing just the opposite, training their children to be dogmatic, making it almost impossible for them to ever discover Truth, God, or Love.

2) The invasion of Iraq under the premise of removing an evil dictator, saving lives, and ending terrorism ended up killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, creating ISIS, and turning Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorism when actually Saddam Hussein would have never allowed for terrorists to flourish in Iraq.

This list could be endless. Basically all evil is done in the name of goodness, love, and truth.

3 hours ago, jimwell said:

But watching humans suffer and dying and not giving a fuck is itself devilry.

You're holding that devilry is some material fact of the world which needs to be abolished. That is not the case. Devilry is a relative matter of perspective. You cannot eliminate devilry in the world any more than you can remove a smudge off the surface of the moon when the smudge is on your telescope lens. You've mistaken a smudge on your lens for a feature of the moon. So you'll always fail until you realize that smudge in on your lens, not the moon.

Devilry isn't real. It does not actually exist. It's just a figure of speech and an illusion as the result of the game of survival.

Quote

Why are you promoting  Bernie Sanders? Because it's your way to save humans, right?

I promote him from a relative survival perspective. In the absolute sense it is irrelevant who is president or if humans die or don't since all of life is imaginary.

Quote

Where's the sense in the things you're saying?

By seeing evil you end up creating evil.

[Anton Rogachevski]

4 hours ago, jimwell said:

I have seen a few people here in this forum who got psychotic after doing psychedelics (or other drugs) and meditation. And as I have clearly mentioned in the post, my grandmother tried to be like jesus by abandoning her family, money and giving 'selflessly" to others. She also went to church every day. But she ended up psychotic. It's silly you missed that one.

How can you not see the that you are connecting dots that aren't there. The fact that your dear grandmother did that, and the fact that she also happened to have some twisted ideas about religion are two separate matters.

The ideas aren't the problem, it's the way that they are taken by and twisted by the ego mind.

The damage of you perusing that logic is an eventual tying of spirituality to mental illness, which would cause people to avoid it in fear of becoming a lunatic. Why would you do that?

Edited October 25, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[TheAvatarState]

On 10/22/2019 at 3:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

To try to save people would make me attached to outcomes in an unhealthy way and be the opposite of liberation, leading to devilry.

Does this mean that every person whose job it is to save people (let's say a conscious healer) is committing Devilry?