Socrates

Self Bias Fox News

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As someone living in Europe I always thought that GTA games are pure fantasy. It turns out they are based on reality more than I could have expected.

Crazy laws you have.

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@possibilities Biology and physics is purely imagination.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Girzo You ain't lived until you've shot a grenade launcher ;)

I had an old high school buddy who is ex-military and he and his friends would go out into the desert and throw live hand grenades into old washing machines. This was some years ago.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Girzo You ain't lived until you've shot a grenade launcher ;)

I had an old high school buddy who is ex-military and he and his friends would go out into the desert and throw live hand grenades into old washing machines. This was some years ago.

That cant be legal. Lol.

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From what I understand grenade launcher attachments for AR-15's are still legal and easily obtainable. But the grenade rounds are illegal and hard to find. It varies a lot by state. California banned a lot of stuff. But Nevada is like the wild wild west. We have the laxest gun laws in the country.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How come I have to register my business with the IRS but not an arsenal of 20 assault rifles? It's absurd.

That's actually genius - imagine there was a very small gun possession tax. You'd have to register with the IRS to actually pay it. Unless you're feeling very courageous you're not gonna fuck with the IRS and the registration issue will be solved nationwide :P

 

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@Lynnel I hadn't thought of that, but an annual gun tax might be a great idea. This would keep people from stockpiling weapons they don't use for hunting/sport. That money could then be funneled to mental health, gun training programs, suicide prevention, and helping victims of shootings. It would be a like a gun insurance pool.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

Do not confuse registration with a ban on guns.

This is the basis of why people don't want to register their guns.  No country has ever said, 'We need to register all the guns so we can ban the ones we don't like'.

 

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

Illegal guns will always exist, but requiring registration of all new firearm purchases would help eliminate young teens from buying up guns for their sprees. Many of these mass shooters purchased a firearm within weeks or months of their spree.

All new gun purchases are registered.  Young teens cannot legally purchase a gun.  People who purchase a significant amount of guns and ammunition should be red flagged by the store owner and the ATF should be notified.  I know this doesn't happen like it should but in most cases there are warning signs which people ignore.

 

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

Currently you can go to a gun show and buy a gun from a private party without any background check or waiting period whatsoever. It's absurd.

Again, I'm not sure why they call it the 'Gun Show Loophole' because anyone can make a private sale of a gun.  I can purchase a registered or non-registered gun, gift it to a relative, friend, or stranger and their you go, a gun which not registered to anyone.  Their are 100's of millions of unregistered guns in the U.S.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Ban of high capacity magazines

What do you consider high?  I would consider a 30 round high.  I would be okay with a permit for this.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Ban of bump stocks & other such mods

I know people who have these and although they can be fun, they are not effectively accurate.  Without a high capacity magazine useless so I don't mind either way.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Ban of body armor and armor piercing rounds

Body armor is good when in competitions so I would be okay with a permit.  Armor piercing is unnecessary so I'm okay with the ban.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Red flag laws

Tough one here.  You could probably have a topic on this one alone.  Would people with MEGA hats or Pink shirts be banned?

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Serious training and licensing in order to buy a gun at all. Like the DMV but for guns.

Most people who own guns legally are trained.  I was trained when I 12 years old.  Many of the mass shooters have not been trained, and I doubt they would be.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Ban open-carry of firearms in public places

Why?  Do people in the cities freak out LOL.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Mandatory locks for all firearms

Why?  I'm sure the other guy doesn't have a lock on his gun LOL.  I think people need to have common sense if they own a gun.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Legal liability if someone accesses your gun to shoot a person when it wasn't properly locked

Okay, people should be a responsible gun owner.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Federal database of all firearms purchased and some kind of limits on people amassing arsenals.

Like I said before, there is an amazing number of unregistered guns out there.  Yes, people who have arsenals should be permitted to certain limits.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Waiting periods to buy firearms. A week or more.

Their is a 3-day waiting period now.  What about the girl who just broke up with her crazy boyfriend, would she need to wait a week, or will a restraining order during this time?

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Ban mentally ill people or domestic abusers from owning firearms.

Another tough one.  Who will make the many variable rules?  Remember the MEGA hats and the Pink shirts.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

All of this is totally reasonable and supported by the majority of Americans and even responsible gun owners.

No way are the majority of Americans supporting "All of this."

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:49 PM, Leo Gura said:

Of course this will not prevent all mass shootings. But it's a good idea to have these protections in place.

Ok then, pick out a past mass shooter and tell me which law you would put in place that would have prevented it from happening.

I like the discussion.

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@Bodigger Stephen Paddock fatally shot 58 and injured 422 people in Las Vegas, 2 miles from where I live, using a bump stock and an arsenal of over 20 weapons, plus another 19 weapons found at his home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock

Just think about that.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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All fourteen AR-15-type rifles were outfitted with bump fire stocks that allow semiautomatic rifles to fire rapidly, simulating fully-automatic gunfire on the Las Vegas shooting.

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Sorry to disappoint you Leo, but a coat hanger can create a fully automatic rifle, so regulation about those items is only a small help, however understandable. 
I would like to add to the list of proposals: safe cabinets for keeping firearms unattended/at home. This would at least contribute to the lessening of the amount of guns entering into criminal circulation.

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I also think that people being so paranoid in the US helps a lot to the contribution of firearm culture, which creates a good homeostasis, guns make people buy guns, easy to see. I submerged into this issue for years, trying to figure out solutions or mitigations and for a start I looked into how the numbers are looking. This helped me understand where starting to curb the issue would be ideal. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/ shows the issue well researched, and have a few articles about these issues.  Also one idea that I heard about mass shootings (in one of the Joe Rogan podcasts, unfortunately I don't remember which one) is that the issue should be treated as "assisted suicides", since the person doing them does not have any intentions of coming back. 

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Posted (edited)

I'll throw my two cents in here, just for shits and giggles:

I'd vote for all of the restrictions Leo mentioned on the previous page, plus one more: a restriction on the sale of firearms to young men under the age of thirty. If you're a young man and you're not in the military or some other form of public service that demands you know how to use a firearm, you don't get to have a gun until you're thirty. Why thirty? The vast majority of violent crime is committed by men, and in particular men in their late teens and twenties. Once men reach their late twenties and early thirties, their testosterone starts to taper off and their statistically less likely to commit violent crime. Actually, I think the correlation between young men and their testosterone levels and violent crime is strong enough that I'd be in favor of substituting some of Leo's more controversial gun restrictions for this one. Like, maybe you can have a semi-auto rifle, but not until you're old enough.

Clearly, this won't prevent the Stephen Paddock types, but it will make a dent in the problem, and I think it will buttress Leo's proposals nicely. I'm not completely opposed to people owning guns, but we've gotta give these young bucks some time to get socialized, get laid, and chill the fuck out.

Which leads me to my next proposal: legalize, tax, and regulate prostitution. Many of these young men get violent because they're being rejected by women. Sitting and waiting around for them to do enough personal development work to sort themselves out and find a nice girl is too costly. We need to get these fuckers laid and happy so that they're not going around and getting crazy because they're not getting their dick sucked.

Edited by ULFBERHT
grammar

"Teach thy tongue to say 'I do not know', and thou shalt progress." - Maimonides

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:41 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Bodigger Stephen Paddock fatally shot 58 and injured 422 people in Las Vegas, 2 miles from where I live, using a bump stock and an arsenal of over 20 weapons, plus another 19 weapons found at his home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock

Just think about that.

As I stated prior, I don't care about after market bump stocks, make them illegal.  The reason he needed all the guns is because AR's are not military rifles and cannot handle the amount of heat created by shooting it as if it were fully automatic.  The guns jammed due to the heat and he would need to grab another rifle.  How many lives would have been saved if bump stocks were illegal.

I think this guy having all these weapons was definitely a lack of care on the part of FFL dealers as well as others.  The ATF or FBI should have been tipped off about him.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

So what? Big deal. If you can register a car, you can register a gun.

Do not confuse registration with a ban on guns.

Well...Watching the latest Democrat Debates, the cat is out of the bag.  They were openly talking about gun bans and this has been the fear of many Americans.  People kill people, not guns, cars, airplanes, knives, and bombs.  I think it is time to work with people and help them instead of blame them, and the tools they choose to do evil.  Love and tolerance of others.

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2 hours ago, Bodigger said:

Well...Watching the latest Democrat Debates, the cat is out of the bag.  They were openly talking about gun bans and this has been the fear of many Americans.  

That is one frame. Notice how that assumption is the basis for the rest of the argument. That frame is a binary mode in which there is "gun bans" or "no gun bans". This overly simplistic model does not include degree and allows all guns to be lumped together.

For example, machine guns are currently banned. I don't see many people arguing about this, because machine guns are the highest lethal form of gun. During the democratic debate, the discussion was about banning the next most lethal form of gun on the continuum - sem-automatic guns. To frame this as "gun bans" is misleading because it doesn't include the part about the lethal severity of the gun type proposed for the ban. 

I don't think the true fear is a ban of semi-automatic weapons. I think there is a deeper fear going on. . . 

2 hours ago, Bodigger said:

People kill people, not guns, cars, airplanes, knives, and bombs. 

This is another hyper dualistic frame. People, not guns kill people. It does not include degree. If people kill people, not the object - then why stop at guns? . . People kill people, not nuclear weapons.  Why not legalize nuclear weapons? . . . Likewise, a person with a semi-automatic weapon can kill injure and kill dozens of people in less than a minute. How many people can someone injure/kill with a knife in less than a minute? How many people can someone injure/kill with a nuclear bomb?. . . Degrees along continuums are important to consider.

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11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is one frame. Notice how that assumption is the basis for the rest of the argument. That frame is a binary mode in which there is "gun bans" or "no gun bans". This overly simplistic model does not include degree and allows all guns to be lumped together.

For example, machine guns are currently banned. I don't see many people arguing about this, because machine guns are the highest lethal form of gun. During the democratic debate, the discussion was about banning the next most lethal form of gun on the continuum - sem-automatic guns. To frame this as "gun bans" is misleading because it doesn't include the part about the lethal severity of the gun type proposed for the ban. 

I tend to assume everyone is seeing and reading the same things I am.  I realize I need to be more specific and I am working on this.

The basis of that particular portion of the discussion was in regards to registering all guns.  The lack of trust, when it comes from government, is the fear for most people.  AR's were specifically addressed during the debate, and the discussion was to get rid of them specifically.  For decades the Dems said this was not there intension to ban the AR's, but many could here the dog whistle.  The next lethal form of gun is not the AR, in fact, it's not even close. 

Here is the dog whistle; they get the people to register there guns.  They ban the AR's which are used in less than 3% of all gun deaths.  Then they tell you that shot guns are the problem, so let's ban them (Used in 4% of gun deaths).  Well, we might just as well get rid of hand guns because 17 people will be shot and killed tomorrow using them.

43 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

 I don't think the true fear is a ban of semi-automatic weapons. I think there is a deeper fear going on. . . 

You are correct....The fear of my daughter's not able to protect themselves or there family.

59 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is another hyper dualistic frame. People, not guns kill people. It does not include degree. If people kill people, not the object - then why stop at guns? . . People kill people, not nuclear weapons.  Why not legalize nuclear weapons? . . . Likewise, a person with a semi-automatic weapon can kill injure and kill dozens of people in less than a minute. How many people can someone injure/kill with a knife in less than a minute? How many people can someone injure/kill with a nuclear bomb?. . . Degrees along continuums are important to consider.

It seems to me that much is said in regards to the tools which are used to kill people rather than the people themselves.  Even with the remembrance of 9/11 recently, there were many people who say that planes did this.  I don't think it is intellectually discussed in that manner.  Jeffery Dahmer killed 17 people without a gun.  If all the guns in America were banned, how many lives would be saved?  Or, how many would be lost?

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