Geromekevin

Leo is Wrong About Trump - Accountability Predictions

287 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

Seriously, you're not even going to look around on this forum and consider that most of these people are mindless?

Mindlessness is relative thing. People here are way more mindful, on average, than the general population or Trump voters.

The important difference is that people here are interested in being more mindful. Trump supports are generally not.

Being ignorant or mindless is not so bad. What's really bad is being aggressive and stubborn in one's ignorance and mindlessness. And Trump is promoting a culture of aggressive mindlessness & selfishness. People actually feel righteous about being so ignorant. This is a dangerous and pathological development which must be challenged.

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Btw, have you ever actually worked in a bureaucracy before? 

It's a shitshow, and if unchecked, it's just as bad  your nightmares about capitalism.  It shouldn't take 20 years to build a highway. 

What you're overlooking is that without a bureaucracy there cannot be a highway at all.

A highway is a very complex thing. It requires complex social structures to exist. You cannot just build a highway in the middle of the jungle and have it work. Highways only exist in advanced, complex, modern societies.

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I just watched your video about politics, and I originally came on here to say that you clearly haven't advanced passed stage green when it comes to politics.

That's your projection. The things I'm saying you are not capable of comprehending or appreciating yet.

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What you don't understand is - that to actually be in stage green - real stage green - you have to be privileged from the fruits of stage orange and blue.  If you're not privileged, it doesn't really work.

Of course! That's the whole point! Not privileged but you must develop through the lower stages by meeting and integrating various low level needs.

The fruits of Blue & Orange are definitely necessary. The problem is that Blue & Orange are becoming pathological to the point where the whole planet is in danger.

The problem with a desperate homeless person is precisely that he cannot take any higher level concerns seriously because he's so needy he can only care about himself. So the solution is help elevate as many such people as possible by helping them to meet their basic needs, so they stop being desperate. That desperation is making them unconscious and unable to consider larger ecological issues.

Ecological concerns are not a privilege. If the planet's ecology crashes, millions of the poorest and more desperate people will die. It's already happening, you're just not aware of it because you haven't studied these issues seriously enough.

Drop your ideological opposition and maybe you can learn something here and advance to a whole new level of understanding.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Leo Gura wow that really spells it out.  he takes credit for an improved economy that has nothing to do with him honestly.  His whole term has been nothing but a bad tweet.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mindlessness is relative thing. People here are way more mindful, on average, than the general population or Trump voters.

Are you sure about that? A lot of these people can't even take care of themselves.

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you're overlooking is that without a bureaucracy there cannot be a highway at all.

I find it boring and weak that you pick the extreme libertarian position to attack when it's not at all relevant.  I can't think of a single society that's pushing in that direction right now.

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem with a desperate homeless person is precisely that he cannot take any higher level concerns seriously because he's so needy he can only care about himself. So the solution is help elevate as many as people as possible

This is an extremely naïve position.  People like to virtue signal about it because it's fun, but don't actually want to do the work themselves.  They wanna screw orange and blue with that responsibility.

Here's what happened in Sweden in real life.  It's only two minutes, and it's very interesting.  

@Leo Gura

 

The problem Extreme green virtue signaling is that everyone is full of shit!  

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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@GenuinePerspectiveXC you lack compassion and love my friend - that's what will keep you trapped in Orange.  You need to be able to jump between perspectives.  Not all homeless are lazy.  Some are - but not all.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@GenuinePerspectiveXC you lack compassion and love my friend - that's what will keep you trapped in Orange.  You need to be able to jump between perspectives.  Not all homeless are lazy.  Some are - but not all.

On the contrary, I've been in extreme Green before.  I find it to be unsustainable.

This was a huge problem with the hippy movement.

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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13 minutes ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

I find it boring and weak that you pick the extreme libertarian position to attack when it's not at all relevant.  I can't think of a single society that's pushing in that direction right now.

I address libertarianism a lot because no mater how extreme or moderate it is, the people who hold such an ideology are very common today. Especially stage Orange young males. They get trapped by this ideology because they have a deep lack of experience and understanding of political history and they want to assert their individualism come what may.

I have yet to find one libertarian who has a keen sense of history or how government works. It's an ideology based on ignorance. It is thoroughly ahistorical.

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This is an extremely naïve position.  People like to virtue signal about it because it's fun, but don't actually want to do the work themselves.  They wanna screw orange and blue with that responsibility.

There certainly are some excesses to stage Green. But to use those excesses to demonize Green and stay stuck in Blue/Orange is even more pathological.

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The problem Extreme green virtue signaling is that everyone is full of shit!  

I am not arguing for extreme Green. You are projecting that onto what I'm saying.

We need healthy Green & Tier 2. We can't get people to Tier 2 without passing through Green.

You're getting distracted by all the culture wars. What I am talking about has nothing to do with culture wars. That is a media-created distraction. What I'm talking about is educating people about how government really works.

There are many degrees of being full of shit. And Trump & Fox News are the masters of it.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're getting distracted by all culture wars

That's an easy projection to spot.  You're the one whose obsessed with Trump.  I literally can't think of anything more culture-warlike

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There certainly are some excesses to stage Green. But to use those excesses to demonize Green and stay stuck in Blue/Orange is even more pathological.

Why would you be stuck?  If you achieve privilege, green is the next logical step.  If someone gives it to you though, eventually you're going to run out of other people's money.

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

to use those excesses to demonize Green and stay stuck in Blue/Orange is even more pathological.

I'm seeing you do the same thing in order to demonize orange.  The difference between myself and you, is that I've gone so far green - that it crashed - and now I have a healthy respect for orange, blue, and yellow.

 

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

people who hold such an ideology [of libertarianism] are very common today

We'll see how well Gary Johnson does this time.

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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Posted (edited)

42 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Leo Gura wow that really spells it out.  he takes credit for an improved economy that has nothing to do with him honestly.  His whole term has been nothing but a bad tweet.

It's actually neither of them who have improved the economy.  Most of its because the massive credit bubble already burst in 2008 - and at a concrete level - the massive millennial generation is entering the job market.  The math points to this economic boom continuing mostly bullishly for another 15 years.

You can't predict the future though.

@Inliytened1

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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@GenuinePerspectiveXC i agree with that.  It wasn't Obama either. 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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49 minutes ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

You're the one whose obsessed with Trump.

When a racist demagogue hijacks government, to point it out is not an obsession nor a culture war. As a conscious citizen I have a responsibility to speak up when unconsciousness runs rampant. That was the key lesson of Nazism.

You keep projecting projection onto me. LOL. Funny how that works, isn't it? ;) You do it without knowing you're doing it. That's how projection works. When you do it, you tell yourself the other is doing it to you. The perfect self-deception.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When a racist demagogue hijacks government, to point it out is not an obsession nor a culture war. As a conscious citizen I have a responsibility to speak up when unconsciousness runs rampant.

@Leo Gura

When up to 1/5th of the population is first generation immigrant, there's nothing racist about not wanting your country to be overrun with homeless people....

or not wanting to take responsibility for another 9/11. 

These are both continuations of Obama policies, so shame on you for trying to use the concept of racism for manipulative purposes.  You sound like Kamala Harris trying to disingenuously shame Joe Biden for racism.  Do you think I'm gonna start acting all inept and sorry like Joe Biden when you do that?

How about you go visit the reddit.com/r/politics and see actual open racism.  I mean OPEN hatred for whiteness, Christianity, success, old people and Americans.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That was the key lesson of Nazism.

The right already has a remedy to Nazism. They like to push colorblindness.

Btw, Communism has done worse things to humanity.  Is the left even aware of when to quit?  At least the right has a boundary.

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You keep projecting projection onto me. LOL. Funny how that works, isn't it? You do it without knowing you're doing it. That's how projection works. When you do it, you tell yourself the other is doing it to you. The perfect self-deception.

Same back to you ;), again.  Ya little projector.

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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51 minutes ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

When up to 1/5th of the population is first generation immigrant, there's nothing racist about not wanting your country to be overrun with homeless people..

Your position is not quite racist but it is enthocentric. Small minds think ethnocentricly. What you're doing is defending an identity you constructed. But you want to deny it. But I am pointing it out to you that you are in denial about it. But the nature of denial is that you will deny that you are in denial. So here we are. You are stuck in Tier 1. I am trying to communicate to you from Tier 2. But you do not understand Tier 2 because you have an enormous amount of consciousness work to do. And of course you do not want to do it, so you make this about me. If your mind succeeds in making this about me, then you won't have to grow. Which is just perfect for your ego's survival.

Do not underestimate the sophistication with which your own mind is tricking you. Nothing your mind says can be trusted. Your mind is a blind survival machine and it spins your ideology.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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So happy once the US elections are over and we can make actualized.org about personal development rather than politics again. The culture war inside this very forum is making this place extremely toxic and emotionally draining. 

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@Zizzero Discussions about the fundamental structures of government and society is not a culture war. This is very substantive and important stuff.

Be careful with such sloppy false equivalencies.

If you think that what I'm doing here is just the ideological opposite of what Fox News is doing, you've got much to learn and you are contributing to the problem.

Just because a topic is polarizing and emotional does not make it any less important. In fact it's all the more important because people do not know how to think properly about polarizing issues. They tend to either take one side or do a sloppy false equivalency, both of which are dangerous.

Ignoring poltical questions is not an option if we care about consciousness. Actualized.org could not exist under a regressive government. When monsters come to power they tend to silence and repress the intellectuals and wisest people.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

 

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your position is not quite racist

It's not ethnocentric either because those are the same things.  My position is systemic.  If hundreds of thousands of people are already migrating illegally each month, and they want to add:

incentives + amnesty + open borders

Then we're talking about a system overload, and we're never going to get our single-payer healthcare.  Put your own oxygen mask on first.

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are stuck in Tier 1

You're the one making emotional pleas (green) that disregard the orange and yellow solutions.  In politics, if you were truly through Tier 1, you wouldn't completely disregard orange as a force to buildup the third world.

Sitting around and dropping acid in 2019 isn't going to do anything about cartel violence and the poverty emergency south of the border. 

Now - a trade war with China - that may shift production to Latin America and actually give people upward mobility.  

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not underestimate the sophistication with which your own mind is tricking you. Nothing your mind says can be trusted. Your mind is a blind survival machine and it spins your ideology.

And once again, same back to you.

Edited by GenuinePerspectiveXC

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura The difference between a culture war and a "discussions about the fundamental structures of government and society" is linguistics. There are clearly two sides that we can observe which fundamentally disagree. Both claiming that the other side is ideological and to at least some extent dangerous. I'd call it a culture war and I would also call what goes on in the US and EU a culture war.

And yes, I absolutely think you contribute to this. Your emphasis on categorizing and generalizing people for example through your use of Spiral Dynamics is merely painting an image of these political debates being a questions of good vs evil. Claiming to having a higher, non-ideological perspective followed by clearly picking a side does not make you much different to Fox News; it simply makes you use better arguments to justify your positions.

I don't criticize talking about politics, I criticize the atmosphere it creates. Whether my criticism is valid depends on your priorities with actualized.org. If your priority is to find and share answers to deep questions, then it's absolutely valid to perceive emotional drain as a mere side effect.
If your priority is to create a space that helps people grow on a personal and spiritual level, then the current state of the forum does not contribute to that I find.
I would want the spiritual forum of my choice to promote love, unity and appreciation for the individual - I honestly don't see much of that in here. Instead I see personal development used as a currency to determine who's more right about philosophical questions.
Now, I can only talk about my own experiences. I simply know that the judgmental atmosphere in here and the constant debating and disagreeing on what is true and what is not is affecting my mood - There's too much negativity and morality for my taste - and I have seen how encouragement and a positive vibe can do wonders to people who want to improve their lives. Maybe that's just me who feels like that however, I know that I'm way more sensitive than normal people.

Edited by Zizzero

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Posted (edited)

You know i thought this forum didn't allow politics and now it's getting very political to the point people are promoting candidates and getting into arguments on which powerless puppet to vote for. Don't think this is the place for it.

Edited by Angelo John Gage

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As I read through the comments, I find this stage comparing everyone is doing here highly egotistical and childish. And, everyone should realize by now, even so called stage turquoise world Gaia govt would still be about survival and still be susceptible to corruption in some way, and have to ensure its own survival by implementing polices that will not tolerate previous ones.

There is no escaping the fact that no govt can ever be perfect for a species so imperfect such as ours.

 

 

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