Rebec

Strong women

11 posts in this topic

I feel, as a woman, that there is strong projection and pressure that women need to be strong. 

Just a search on Google or YouTube gives mostly information on how to be a strong and independent woman.  

I like some reactions from men and women what your view is on our society regarding strong women. Is this spiral dynamics orange? What is a more green or yellow view?

 

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Being indepedent is great but women should also cultivate their femininity.

Don't try to out-man men. Rather charm people with your femininity. If that resonates with you. People fall all along the masciline-feminine spectrum. Find your place along it.

Femininity is great! Strength can be either masculine or feminine.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Just be you. :) Strength is being who authentically are. Don’t hide your vulnerability. Don’t play into a role. Just be. 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Rebec said:

I feel, as a woman, that there is strong projection and pressure that women need to be strong. 

Just a search on Google or YouTube gives mostly information on how to be a strong and independent woman.  

I like some reactions from men and women what your view is on our society regarding strong women. Is this spiral dynamics orange? What is a more green or yellow view?

This stems from the fact that, until very recently in human history, women have been regarded as week and incapable. So, with 2nd Wave Feminism, there was a movement toward recognizing strength in women. And this birthed the notion of the strong woman, who can do anything a man can do. And this was usually with a Stage Orange framing of being able to be "as good as men" in the workplace. And making the case that women can perform as well as men and be as good as men.

And this rhetoric is still used in a lot of Pop-Feminism, which is what the average person is aware of relative to Feminism. So, it's a lot of Dove commercials, Beyonce quotes, and 'Slay girl slay' kind of sentiments.

But underneath these seemingly empowering statements of women being strong and just as good as men, there is a shadow. And that shadow is that society thinks that masculinity is superior to femininity. And so, this framing always happens from this masculine supremacy vantage point. So, it's always saying, "women can be as good as men." Like, "You can get there if you try hard and prove yourself." 

But notice that men are the hallmark that women must aspire to in this 'strong woman' story. And a woman can be strong and excel and be accepted into the boys club in a similar (but not entirely equal) fashion to men... on the condition that she can throw away her femininity in all but appearance and adopt a masculine sensibility about the world.

So, there are huge anti-feminine and thus anti-woman shadows to this 2nd Wave Feminist talking point of strong and independent women. And the shadow is that women can excel and be accepted as long as they don't act like women and can draw a distinction between themselves and "the other girls".

And we see this in characters in pop culture all the time. Often, the most well-written and endearing female characters are ones that reject femininity and feminine signifiers as trite and silly. Like the (pretty) tomboy who's "not like the other girls" and hates the color pink. And the (pretty) badass chick who's "not like the other girls" and kicks everyone's ass. And the (pretty) down to Earth girl who's "not like the other girls". And the (pretty) manic pixie dream girl who's "not like the other girls".

Either that, or you have the (pretty) bitch or the (pretty) dumb bitch, who are always incredibly under-written and unlikable. 

So, this pop culture trend that was popular when I was younger, that's now in the process of dying out because of the strides that our collective awareness has made in the past half a decade or so relative to our anti-feminine biases. 

So, what I recommend is not to focus toward being a "strong independent woman" because that's a stock character that exists as a reaction against the oppression that women have faced for many millennia. But because it is an image in resistance to something, it is very much in the same entanglement as that which it pushes against. So, you can never be free from internalized misogyny by adopting an image that was born out of internalized misogyny.

It's best to dig deep and be authentic instead. And you can just be a well-rounded person without having to qualify yourself as strong to be a valid woman. 

Edit: Long story short... the 'strong independent woman' trope was born out of 2nd Wave Feminism and genuinely helped women get more of an equal standing in society and in the workforce. But there are anti-feminine shadows to it, so it's very out-dated and best transcended with a more pro-feminine and authenticity centered way of validating women and people in general, without needing them to be "like the big boys."

Edited by Emerald

Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/thediamondnet 

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At the end, the only label that matters is what you think of yourself as you know yourself more than anyone else ever can. Be who you want to be, I think that’s the greatest achievement and a proof of strength! The society needs a variety of characters and roles to function well. Anyone who dares to tell me who I need to be, can go somewhere! haha


I have an opinion on everything :D

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12 hours ago, Rebec said:

I feel, as a woman, that there is strong projection and pressure that women need to be strong. 

Just a search on Google or YouTube gives mostly information on how to be a strong and independent woman.  

I like some reactions from men and women what your view is on our society regarding strong women. Is this spiral dynamics orange? What is a more green or yellow view?

 

Leo and Emerald made great points.

I would say that the "aggressive woman" stereotype is definitely stage orange femininity: productive and business oriented.
Stage green femininity is a lot more in tune with the core values of being a woman (generally speaking), which is why progressivism is trying to depict women as fragile and in need of compassion. 

The center of gravity of wester culture right now is stage orange, so it's completely normal for women to see a lot of "strong/productive woman" propaganda around.

I think that both men and women need to cultivate both compassion and success traits.

So if you lack feminine qualities, dive deep into your empathy and feelings :) 

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Yep.

But also if you search google for beautiful women, you will find a lot more.

It's not that you should become masculine strong, nor that you should wear make-up and act all sensitive and touchy-feely.

Same goes for men, only in different areas.

You gotta find the right balance for you.

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@Rebec I found that the books of David Deida cleared up a lot of misunderstanding. He speaks about 3 stages. In the first stage you either identify as male or as female and are very egocentric(what do I want). The caricatures here are the macho jerk and the housewife. In the second stage men find their feminine side and women find their masculine side. This way women become more indepedent and men more dependent. The second stage is more orange/green while the first stage is more blue/orange. I think stage yellow(stage 3) would be a person who sees in him or her both energies and can adjust and switch depending on what the situation demands. This way he or she transcends a rigid indentity. I found this soo liberating. I am a male to the outside, but on the inside I try to let my energies flow as they want (though it's a work in progress ofcourse). It still remains the case that masculine energie is more wanted and so women feel the urge the look and act more strongly and don't show weakness (same as is expected of men ofcourse).

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Loved @Emerald 's answer. 

I think that this expectation starts in stage orange and can potentially grow even stronger in stage green and definitely carries over to stage yellow, where it finally starts to see itself a little more clearly. I recently did some shadow work and never realized the extent to which I had been ashamed of both my feminine nature and my tendency to be outspoken at times. I had different people in my life shaming me for different traits. 

The only relief that can be found to any suffering that has to do with how we identify is spirituality and realizing that there's no need to identify with anything at all. Everything we "learn" or decide about ourselves and our culture is ultimately a story, a fiction and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that creates a shadow and later suffering. Self realization of no self is where true freedom lies. 


Light on Earth The power of love came into me,
and I became fierce like a lion,
then tender like the evening star.” - Rumi

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Thank you for all the responses. I really appreciate it! 🌼

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