My question to Sam Harris.

[Angelo John Gage]

If you were to be able to shut off all your senses, would "you" still exist? 

Awaiting his answer.

What do you guys think?

[purerogue]

Have no clue, but I did get some interesting experiences from trying it that I can't really explain, will try it sometime soon again.

Only problem I see is how to know if you shut all your senses off. 

 

[Forestluv]

@Angelo John Gage To me Sam seems primarily grounded in the intellectual, yet is open to intellectualizing the non-intellectual. . . I think it’s a good question. Personally, I would consider being more specific with defining the terms senses and “you” - especially the term “you” as it is written in quotes. Unless of course, the intention is to leave it open and abstract and allow Sam to meander where he may with it. 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Serotoninluv  That was my intention. The typical argument is that the "you" that you experience is essentially all of your senses, which in a sense is 100% true, which is why im baffled by my own question. 

[Forestluv]

@Angelo John Gage Gotcha. It seems you are probing to see wether same makes a distinction between senses and “you”.

Would you say senses and “you” are essentially the same, inter-related or distinct?

[RichardY]

Why not try it.

Spend time in a sensory deprivation Chamber or a Tank. No light, sound, constant temperature, cardboard like food. 

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Spend time in a sensory deprivation Chamber or a Tank. No light, sound, constant temperature, cardboard like food. 

I’ve done several floats in different tanks. They don’t completely eliminate all sensations, just greatly reduce the sight, hearing, temperature and touch. Yet there may still be body sensations such as a cramp in the neck or a tight sensation in the foot. Ime, the sensory reduction is enough to dissolve the normal identification to the body and induce an “out of body” experience. 

[TheAvatarState]

@Angelo John Gage Im curious why your question might be directed at Sam Harris? 

[Angelo John Gage]

@TheAvatarState  because his basis for our 'self' is an illusion from the brain. He doesn't know the answer to consciousness but I think he believes its a product of the brain's activity. 

[David Hammond]

I like Sam. He's a fellow dzogchenpa.

[TheAvatarState]

@Angelo John Gage so you think he's fully stuck in the materialist paradigm of 3rd person objective and consciousness as an emergent phenomena? Wow, lol. I just assumed because he meditated a lot that he might be more woke, but I guess that makes sense. I haven't really thought about this before, because I haven't heard him talk specifically about consciousness yet. 

[Shin]

I may be too tired,

But are you really waiting for Sam Harris to answer you here ?

[kieranperez]

Sam Harris really is a confusing character. I don’t listen to him anymore so I’m not really current as to what he’s up to these days as far as what he’s saying and so forth. 

If you read his book Waking Up, you’re clearly reading about him not only having nondual enlightenment experiences but also having studied sages and teachers like Ramana Maharahi, Papaji, etc. He’s “educated” on these people and on nonduality in yet.. still is holding these paradigms of how Consciousness is brain activity for example.

I mean, he’s done thousands of hours of meditation and has utilized substances like LSD but still doesn’t and has done tons of mindfulness practice of the years but still denies subjectivity. Denying that 2nd and 3rd person perspective are still all held and grounded within 1st person subjective and to deny 1st person is deny what’s fundamentally running the show. It’s crazy how that’s happened. 

I don’t wanna go off too hard because he was my real gateway into this path. His 26 minute meditation with some self inquiry got me to realize I don’t know who and what I am. So there’s value there for the newb coming from Orange. I don’t think an Orange person can really stomach more “cleaner” forms of nonduality other than maybe through Leo’s older stuff. 

I think it just goes to show how deep enlightenment goes and how even no-self insights are nowhere near enough. Glimpses and even strong hits of emptiness isn’t enough to eradicate a very deeply permeated materialist and modern scientific paradigm. Also in the importance of open mindedness and of course epistemology. I think epistemology (along with of course metaphysics, but for the sake of this point...) really is the root issue in A LOT of the shenanigans we get into even in spiritual work. 

Its really a shame because he’s such a great speaker, very articulate, otherwise very intelligent guy, great marketer, etc. but between this and how he holds Atheism, demonization of religion, etc. really makes him a truly tainted teacher that leads many people astray. I hope he turns around but I doubt it. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by kieranperez

[Ponder]

You would (possibly) be nothingness aka formlessness. However, form is inseparable from formlessness, therefore it’s impossible for you to exist. It’s impossible for reality to be any other way than it is since God using his infinite intellect and infinite love, created the only possible configuration of existence. 

 

Tl;dr No 

[Angelo John Gage]

@RichardY  I've done a tank before. All I saw were lights my brain emitting from inside itself. nothing spectacular like DMT lol

[TheAvatarState]

@Angelo John Gage @kieranperez it may be possible that he knows the Truth, yet he holds on to the materialist paradigm so as not to alienate his viewers. It seems counter-intuitive but he may be able to have a BIGGER, more POSTIVE impact by playing along with certain aspects of the current paradigm. 

[Conrad]

There is no you. You don't exist other than as the One (The Apsolute, God) who is All. The sense of seperation between You and God is merely a sense, the belief that you are separate from God is merely a belief. The Actual Truth is that you are God. 

So, yes the real you will always exist. The conceptual mind created you aka the ego will not. 

[kieranperez]

1 hour ago, TheAvatarState said:

@Angelo John Gage @kieranperez it may be possible that he knows the Truth, yet he holds on to the materialist paradigm so as not to alienate his viewers. It seems counter-intuitive but he may be able to have a BIGGER, more POSTIVE impact by playing along with certain aspects of the current paradigm. 

To really grasp the Absolute and to live knowing it deeply would demand you be in integrity with the Truth because you are it.

As far as him doing a more “positive” impact by doing what he’s doing from the relative POV I highly disagree with. Who/how I was before I got truly into nonduality and I was listening to Sam Harris and also with certain family members of mine who are like Sam Harris and jP fanatics, I can promise you, he isn’t doing anyone any real favors doing what he’s known for doing. 

[TheAvatarState]

8 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Who/how I was before I got truly into nonduality and I was listening to Sam Harris and also with certain family members of mine who are like Sam Harris and jP fanatics, I can promise you, he isn’t doing anyone any real favors doing what he’s known for doing. 

While I agree with what you said in the first part, I think you are contradicting yourself in the quote above. You are simultaneously thankful for and conscious of Sam Harris's role in your own development (as a stepping stone), while denying he has any positive value. Really? 

Zoom way out. Consider that society needs figures embodying partial Truth, to serve as stepping stones to higher consciousness down the road. The fact is that there are millions of people (you and I included just a few years ago), that absolutely started leading better, more productive and centered lives because of the work of JP and SH. While they may not be embodying full authenticity because of certain shadows or other personal issues, still consider they may be doing God's work. We all need stepping stone figures... If every teacher was a full-fledged nondual teacher/Yogi/mystic, then society would have no chance of evolving. The only reason Sam Harris, for instance, is seen as credible is because he believes consciousness is caused by the brain! Haha, now that's an insight... Now consider the work he's done on the meditation app, his brilliant podcast that interviews the greatest minds, etc... It's really quite remarkable we have people like him to overall positively influence millions. From God's perspective, it's all part of the plan.  

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, Angelo John Gage said:

If you were to be able to shut off all your senses, would "you" still exist? 

Yes, as infinity, which was limiting itself to create senses.