5 Meo DMT Vs. Practices

[AlphaAbundance]

What is the way to maximize all of these for enlightenment? Ditch practices completely and do 5 Meo DMT, do minimum practices and do 5 Meo DMT, etc. Why even do a second of meditation if 5 Meo DMT can bring the same quicker and easier? Why not just be consistently on 5 Meo DMT (as much as you can without dying) for the rest of your life? So just maximize your finances to be able to live comfortably on 5 Meo DMT for the rest of your life.

[Leo Gura]

Practices are very important. You will not get much out of 5-MeO without practices.

You don't want to turn 5-MeO into a crutch. It is a powerful tool, but only a tool. It cannot be your cure-all fix. You ultimately want to be free of it.

There is so much more to this work than just blasting 5-MeO up your ass.

Keep in mind, when I do that, that's based on a very deep foundation of many years of inquiry, research, practice, and self-help. And even so, I don't do it all the time, I do it very strategically at certain periods of the year.

Practically speaking, you will never be able to handle that much 5-MeO. It will totally disrupt your life and you will not be able to integrate it fast enough, leading to all sorts of emotional problems.

Integrating 13 trips took me a lot of work. I pushed myself to the limit. And it took me 2 years of tripping to be able to do that. Don't try that at home. I'm what they call a profesisonal

[AlphaAbundance]

@Leo Gura So would the crutch be dependent in the sense that you would lose awakened and consciousness states if you lost the finances and ressources to support your 5 Meo DMT lifestyle?  What's actually wrong/detrimental with using 5 Meo DMT consistently, yeah it can be considered a crutch but why does that matter?

Also wait a second.. so what I am hearing is that no matter what those 20 years of meditation are waiting for your ass if want lasting results anyway?

Regardless what is the recommended (most efficient and effective) path? Doing mininum practices to build the foundation then maximizing 5 Meo DMT (to the edge of where it starts to hurt you)?

[Leo Gura]

@AlphaAbundance You are speaking of 5-MeO without any deep experience of it. So your thinking on this issue is pure fantasy.

You would be lucky to be able to handle 3 back to back trips before you run crying for mommy.

Get some experience first, then devise your plans.

You are trying to use 5-MeO as a get out of jail free card, and that won't work. You can't skip the inner work. But you can speed it up.

[AlphaAbundance]

@Leo Gura Oh ardd, very blunt however straight facts. I guess get rich quick schemes don't apply in spirtuality either. So 5 Meo DMT is like a new ability to help you move up the levels rather than being a cheatcode to skip levels?

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura was about to make a post about the utilization of 5-MeO-DMT under a hardcore spiritual practice/regimen/system.

As far as I'm interpreting, before one were to even do 5-MeO-DMT in the way you're describing, one should already have a strong enough big picture foundation yes and spiritual practice already up and going but also a very strong foundation of self-esteem to really carry themselves through such a process? I feel like that would be obvious stuff but can't hurt to confirm. 

Do you think cases like Martin Ball who achieve liberation (under the assumption that he is truly and fully liberated) using 5-MeO-DMT are still rare cases and would still be rare cases if people were to use 5-MeO-DMT under his way of using it (smoking/vaporizing it and then stay embodying the energy through bi-lateral symmetry AKA "fractal energy yoga"... whoever came up with that title by the way needs to go into marketing) or yours? 

I've spent time really strategizing in the coming years towards when I fully go into spirituality and have put a lot of thought into the possibilities of how 5-MeO-DMT would work in conjunction with a hardcore yoga, concentration meditation, and contemplation practice and what not. As far as what you seem to report, you still come back down and it's not lasting as far as the abidance of the realization itself. Obviously that doesn't diminish, reduce, or debunk the realizations that I imagine come with such a substance and of course you do get personal growth from doing multiple rounds of 5-MeO-DMT over the course multiple days but... does it really leave something lasting that doesn't turn into more conceptual ideas several weeks and months after you stop doing it? Not to suggest that 5-MeO-DMT would someone's only tool for their spiritual practice towards full liberation and full depth of awakening. Then again though... if brings you back to baseline, aren't you just back to square one where you started with just needing to grind through tens and tens of thousands of hours of concentrative meditation in order to abide in pure liberation anyways? 

You've said in the past that 5-MeO-DMT is just so much more ridiculously potent and effective that it takes you orders of magnitude deeper than these more traditional practices would ever take the average person. I'm trying to really listen the emphasis on the quality and magnitude of depth there is but if 5-MeO-DMT can't for sure sustain though through proper use (since you do come back down) + spiritual practices, does it really even effect the average person's chances of true full liberation and mastery of this domain? 

Edited April 3, 2019 by kieranperez

[Enlightenment]

5-MeO or any other psychedelic doesn't work for permanently awakening a person, for that you need to find some technique that works for you and do it sober. That's not to say 5-MeO is not an amazing tool that can give you indescribable experiences.

[AlphaAbundance]

 

14 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@Leo Gura Then again though... if brings you back to baseline, aren't you just back to square one where you started with just needing to grind through tens and tens of thousands of hours of concentrative meditation in order to abide in pure liberation anyways? 

^^^^

[Leo Gura]

It is a tool for growth.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Arnold used steroids for competiton but this is not what made him so good. It was his mindset and hard work.

If you think steroids will make you a great athlete you will be disappointed. They are merely a tool.

And no, psychedelics are not unhealthy like steroids.

[molosku]

@Leo Gura

Question: are you ever concerned over your sanity when you trip for many days back to back? No matter how developed you are, the mentally disturbed often don't realize they are mentally disturbed. The mind is a strong thing, yet at the same time quite fragile and it has a tendency to catapult shit back if you push it too much.

You have said in the past one of your biggest obstacles is your conceptualizing mind, could you imagine your mind constructs lashing out against a 5-meo deconstruction process that is just too fast and too radical to handle?

[Leo Gura]

@molosku During that last month I sort of conquered my fear of 5-MeO. By the end when I was doing it I just stopped caring about fear/anxiety/etc. It now feels very natural. Although I have had hairy trips which most people would feak out over.

No, my mind does not resist the 5-MeO. Whatever it wants to show me I am open to. Sometimes it slaps me around but I am okay with it. I surrender to it completely. I think the key is to have your heart in the right place. That is enough to overcome any minor ego stuff which we all tend to have. You don't need to be totally pure, just pure enough.

For me 5-MeO is like a good guru: stern yet loving and good. I have not noticed that it slaps you around frivolously like some other psychedelics might. It just shows you Truth, and if you can handle it, you'll be good. So 5-MeO is only for those people who really crave and love Truth unconditionally.

[Ry4n]

@Leo Gura Im curious to know how you plan to use 5 meo dmt heading into the future? I would imagine the most efficient way would be to use it less and less over several years until you either no longer use or very rarely and continue with yoga and similar practices.

Also are you planning on trying N-N-DMT anytime soon? Would love to hear a video made about it  

[Leo Gura]

@Ry4n Not sure yet.

Yes, I will try N,N-DMT and other things. You never know until you try.

[legendary]

I'd say a three things are very important:

• Spiritual practices
• Tripping Responsibly
• Being open-minded and cross-referencing from various high quality sources.

The reason why Leo is able to grow so quickly is because he does all three.

Compare that to Dr. Martin Ball or Octavio Rettig. They have done more 5-MeO than anyone else on the planet, but still I wouldn't put them in the same category as Peter Ralston or Jan Esmann (although they are all Turquoise, and pioneers in their field).

The 3rd point is vital. I see Martin Ball rejecting all spiritual teachings (chakras, kundalini, satvic diet, karma, etc.) and calling it just ego based stories. It can be an ineffective approach. Of course, Dr. Ball would say he is completely liberated. As Ralston says, "You are not conscious of what it is that you are not conscious of."

[Arhattobe]

Martin ball is clearly not liberated. He said he still has issues. His sleep thing. Extreme ones too. 

Jan is not liberated either though. He regularly talks about suffering.

Ralston is also arrogant. Not liberated. Lacks nuance. 

[Ry4n]

@Arhattobe Enlightenment doesn't make you perfect. There's a lot more to life than enlightenment

[Arhattobe]

@Ry4n what you call enlightenment I call non duality. It is not enlightenment and yes, that does not make you perfect. Post awakening a process starts to rid you of all defilements as Theravada Buddhism states it, and has been my experience. Working with that process will eventually rid you of all defilements, delusions, fears and cravings that make you “imperfect” as you said it.

[Joseph Maynor]

13 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Martin ball is clearly not liberated. He said he still has issues. His sleep thing. Extreme ones too. 

Jan is not liberated either though. He regularly talks about suffering.

Ralston is also arrogant. Not liberated. Lacks nuance. 

This is a pretty strong thing to say.  So, are you liberated?  Are you arrogant?  Do you lack nuance?  You might be projecting.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Jkris]

@Arhattobe Please start a thread and share the practices. 

[Arhattobe]

@Jkris sure . Have a flight to catch but will do so in a day or two ❣️