If it's all a fantasy, why even live it?

[Groucho]

I struggle with this question too. I became a vegetarian after learning about factory farms and how cruel these animals are treated. 99% of the animals consumed in the USA are from factory farms where the animals are basically tortured from the day they are born until the day they are killed. But if  this is all fantasy why worry about it? Why have a moral compass at all?  What does it serve?  

I also wonder if there are two ends of enlightenment, one good and one evil. Do some of the worlds great "evil doers" come to realize that nothing matters and take the dark path (as most people would see it) while others who obtain enlightenment choose the light and teach etc..?  Ya know "The force" the dark side and the light...

 

 

[Arhattobe]

@Aakash Almost no teacher denies that there are different depths of enlightenment.

More advanced teachers tend to even map out the path, and the subsequent stages of enlightenment:

A few modern examples would be Ramaji, Davidya, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. 

More ancient examples would be the Jain and Theravada states of enlightenment. That culminate with what the both term arhathood. Liberation, kaivalya, Perfect nirvana.

Ramaji postulates that the reason people get stuck at a specific level of enlightenment is due to the fact that they start teaching at that level. 

They believe they see truth. Their perception and interpretation starts to become rigid. Their understanding of the world untouchable. This might seem like progress but in fact it’s stagnation.

In Buddhism there are many stories of monks who overestimated their level of understanding, and due to false understanding got stuck.

In short false or incomplete understanding, rigidity, thinking you know are barriers to growth.

 

Leo himself, and due to his influence and culture on here other members on here. Most of whom have only had psychedelic insights. A few who have awakened on a basic level. Are among those with false understanding. 

The ego hijacks, pretends it understands. Ones emotions find solace and an escape in misunderstandings and interpretations. Combine all that, and what you have is a bunch of non dual know it all. Deeply out of touch with the humanity. With life. Who are the barriers to their own growth.

[Aakash]

@Arhattobe this is interesting what you have written 

let me ask you a question, the first ever question i asked leo 3 weeks ago when i decided to start using this forum. 

it was along the lines of if i want to know what i am in its entirety do i need to read the religious text , because it seemed to me that nomatter what enlightenment experience or awakenings you have had, it is only someone who has gone the full way who can tell you whether what you have experienced is the full thing. the next thing i asked was, most people who interpret the texts after give false narratives of what the original text hold, you have to read the original scripts in its original manuscript. so does this mean i need to learn the language to understand the scripts correct to know who i am in its entirety. 

23 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

Ramaji postulates that the reason people get stuck at a specific level of enlightenment is due to the fact that they start teaching at that level. 

They believe they see truth. Their perception and interpretation starts to become rigid. Their understanding of the world untouchable. This might seem like progress but in fact it’s stagnation.

This is the reason i asked 

[Shin]

Don't read the texts, or even Buddhist scripture.

There is insane amount of dogmas in them.

Read the books and videos of each major spiritual teacher, it's only this way that your mind will connect all the dots.

And not just eastern teacher either.

So read Eckhart Tolle/Sadghuru/Rupert Spira/Maharshi/Adyashanti/Mooji/Allan Watts/Thich Nhat Hanh/Bentinho Massaro/Osho/Byron Katie/Dalai Lama/Shinzen Young/Matt Kahn ...

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Merely frustrated at the lack of self honesty, lifelessness and the amount spiritual bypassing that goes on here. All which will greatly limit and delude everyone on here that is guilty of what I said.

There is existence prior to judgement. Yet for it to be revealed, attachment and identification must dissolve.

[Sockrattes]

41 minutes ago, Shin said:

Don't read the texts, or even Buddhist scripture.

There is insane amount of dogmas in them.

So you can read it and stay unaffected and everyone else shouldn't touch it?

 

 

@Arhattobe I would like to see those videos. If you find time for that, please post the links here.

[Arhattobe]

@Aakash The texts in their entirety are too long to read. Too boring due to the language used, and most people will not understand why the nuance in them is relevant. They aren’t a good place to start.

The core of the traditions. Especially Buddhism is different, however. They are great places to start.

 In other words the universally agreed teachings it aspouses. 

The 4 noble truths, the dhamma and so on. 

Then start with the more popular suttas, and instead of understanding see if anything resonates with you.

 

In Buddhism and Jainism. The importance isn’t placed on any realisation. Non dual. Nothingness and etc. The total eradication of the fetters. Cravings, impurities in mind are the goal. 

This is one major difference between the traditions started by those who have gone all the way and random dudes in low states of realisation.

”emptiness is form and form is emptiness.”

Yet so many in modern times neglect the world. Try to pretend it doesn’t exist. Disvalue it. Even if they say they aren’t. They look away. Avert their eyes from their humanity, and focus solely on “that which is prior” to blah blah blah.

@Serotoninluv like this guy. 

What is your point? It has been revealed to me for a number of years, and honestly I couldn’t give a shit because reality is not one dimensional. 

If you avert your eyes to parts you dislike and call them illusion. You are just a child lost in fantasy. 

[Aakash]

@Sockrattes  you should read the document he posted first; its quite eye opening before he sends the videos

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

So you can read it and stay unaffected and everyone else shouldn't touch it?

 

 

@Arhattobe I would like to see those videos. If you find time for that, please post the links here.

It's just saying it's a waste of time, do what you want ?

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

 

@Serotoninluv 

What is your point? It has been revealed to me for a number of years, and honestly I couldn’t give a shit because reality is not one dimensional. 

What is pointed to isn’t being revealed in your current mind state. Perhaps it will be at another time. ? 

[Arhattobe]

@Aakash

@Sockrattes

sent both of you two satsangs. If your interested in more after checking them out or if you have any other questions let me know.

if anyone else is curious in the satsangs just pm me❣️

 

@Serotoninluv It has been for a number of years. Your are blind to your own ignorance.

I stabalized in non duality 3-4 years ago, and taught all the bs that everyone on here quotes on a daily basis

Edited January 13, 2019 by Arhattobe

[Preetom]

@Arhattobe

1) What is value, purpose, meaning?

2) What is the role of perseverance and effort in the path?

3) Is it the mind that cleanses the impurities of mind? Or is something else involved as well?

[Preetom]

8 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

 

 

 

@Serotoninluv It has been for a number of years. Your are blind to your own ignorance.

I stabalized in non duality 3-4 years ago, and taught all the bs that everyone on here quotes on a daily basis

What is the difference between before and after stabilizing in non-duality? Is it possible to express it?

Would appreciate it if you could say something on this

Edited January 13, 2019 by Preetom

[Sockrattes]

13 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

”emptiness is form and form is emptiness.”

Yet so many in modern times neglect the world. Try to pretend it doesn’t exist. Disvalue it. Even if they say they aren’t. They look away. Avert their eyes from their humanity, and focus solely on “that which is prior” to blah blah blah.

But the Heart-Sutra belongs to Mahayana not Theravada. ;D

Thanks for the links. I will check them out soon.

 

@Aakash Don't worry. I have my own unique way of learning things.^^

I already have surface-level understanding of the four noble truth. Now i'm setting things up for further understanding.

[Arhattobe]

@Sockrattes That’s correct, but I still liked it and it helped me demonstrate my point in this instance better than most other things.

Mahayana in general has a lot of pointless fluff and less substance than Theravada but it is good.

@Preetom

The root of the word Brahman in Sanskrit. Bra means “to swell, expand, grow, enlarge". 

Brahman has two faces in hindu mythology. Nirguna Brahman & Saguna Brahman.

Guna = Quality

The world or existence is also called the world of the gunas. The qualitative world.

This world comes from, originates and is the other face of Nir guna Brahman.

Nir Guna means without quality. What is referred to as the absolute.

What realises Nirguna, what grows to realise that facet of itself, however is saguna.

The two are inseparable. Upon awakening to the nirguna dimension one might apply perceived notions of nirguna (which are most probably not true) to Saguna. The world of quality. 

Value, purpose, meaning, perseverance and effort are all realities in Saguna. Which can lead to a harmonious existence between both. In other words with an incomplete picture they might seem trivial and meaningless but with the full picture. Their true importance is revealed.

In regards to your 3rd question. Brahman cleanses itself let’s say.

 

I honestly don’t remember duality because my memory has progressively gotten worse after non duality so can’t give you a proper answer.

In regards to whether or not non duality can be expressed. Nothing truly can, fully. Eg A 50 year old man can’t truly express the love he feels for his child to those that don’t have a child, but he can try.

In the same manner it’s inexpressable because of a lack of reference point in those not in it. Not because of its awesome splendour.

Its kind of like when you put on a virtual reality headset. You see everything in the game, but you kind of know deep down that, that is not all there is to you. There is a sense of yourself beyond the game in other words.

 

 

[Forestluv]

24 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

 

@Serotoninluv It has been for a number of years. Your are blind to your own ignorance.

I stabalized in non duality 3-4 years ago, and taught all the bs that everyone on here quotes on a daily basis

When a mind is immersed within belief and judgement, it becomes contracted and is unaware of that immersion. This is much easier to see in other minds than one's own mind. Here, you are unaware that your mind is immersed within certain beliefs and judgments. Rather than being open and willing to explore this, your mind is protecting those beliefs and judgments.  That is why it is not being revealed in your current mind state. 

[Preetom]

@Arhattobe

Thanks for answering. Saguna and Nirguna Brahman is basically form and formlessness of heart sutra. They must collapse into not-twoness.

9 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

Its kind of like when you put on a virtual reality headset. You see everything in the game, but you kind of know deep down that, that is not all there is to you. There is a sense of yourself beyond the game in other words.

If I ask you to describe that authentic 'you' beyond the game, how would you describe it? There must be a recognition or else you wouldn't even notice any difference before and after.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

So would you say Buddhas teachings about Nirvana and Jesus teaching about the kingdom of God are wrong?

No, you are just misunderstanding their teachings.

THIS is the kingdom of God! Heaven is EVERYWHERE! Just lose that ego.

There is no salvation elsewhere unless you find it right here, right now.

Nirvana is ego-death.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@F A B

If you even ask such a question you are either depressed, or you are deeply within suffering. If you saw the "fantasy", which you so confidently talk about, you would be in awe on your knees crying.

And so there is something to do! It's to stop suffering and have a blast!

Cheers

Edited January 13, 2019 by Anton Rogachevski

[Arhattobe]

@Preetom was drawing a blank for a second lol. It is a recognition certainly. Just a sense I guess. Sense of not being contained in the body. Game and etc.