Im Confused

[Roman25]

In Leo's latest video, I'm not buying that the sponge is infinite tbh. I also still don't agree with non-duality. But that's just me. Are you guys certain that those things are true?

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

In Leo's latest video, I'm not buying that the sponge is infinite tbh. I also still don't agree with non-duality. But that's just me. Are you guys certain that those things are true?

No, but I've become comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

[Roman25]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

No, but I've become comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

Reading thanatos13's comments wasn't a wise decision. It made me disconnected from actualized.org and damaged my psychology. My fault though. So I'll try to reconnect with time.

[Jack River]

@Nahm @Serotoninluv

I have had this no distinction perception prior to thought as well once while floating out in the ocean. It was a moment where consciousness had no-thing in it.. i now refer to this as total or direct perception. There was total breakdown of distinction, as in no distance between points in space. Is this what you mean by “null void”? 

There does seem to be a distinction before the self/perceiver/perceived/thought distinction with its labels/conceptual systems. It’s hard to explain though. It’s not a distinction of self/thought/content accumulated through memory but more a distinction of points within a area of space. I haven’t really been able to explain the nature of this type of distinction yet but your above post makes this explaining a little easier. 

This breakdown of inward distinctions of experience/thought and even the breakdown of outward conceptual distinctions (projected thought/experience) seems to be happening more and more as I stop moving psychologically to become. I can observe inward thought movement and outward “objects” without the concepts and such now and that seems to be the ground or a default perception.  

I feel like I am on the edge sometimes as that total distinction collapse will happen again. But I feel like there is a danger in that as When I last “experienced” that it was a very dangerous situation to be in physically as I was not there and time/space totlay seemed to dissolve. 

You notice this too dudes? 

 

[Roman25]

2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

What? What comments?

I don't understand your question. I guess all of them

[Roman25]

2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Oh, it's a greek death god. Didn't know that. Where can I read his 13 comments?

https://www.actualized.org/forum/profile/9958-thanatos13/?do=content&page=5

That guy. Sorry for the confusion. I saw you reply to him before so I thought you would remember.

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Enlightenment means death, so it's supposed to be physically dangerous for your ego. Your ego/body is supposed to dissolve. That's a good thing.

No the psychological death is a continuous thing for me which is how I can observe without thought distinctions and self content. 

Im taking about when you are totally not there conscious/aware that is dangerous physically. 

Im referring to the nonbeingness. It’s extreme to say the least. Well when you come to it is noticed as so. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

24 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@Nahm @Serotoninluv

I have had this no distinction perception prior to thought as well once while floating out in the ocean. It was a moment where consciousness had no-thing in it.. i now refer to this as total or direct perception. There was total breakdown of distinction, as in no distance between points in space. Is this what you mean by “null void”? 

The null void was absolute nothing. There were no sensations. I was literally blind, deaf, no feeling, no taste, no smell. I was dead - mind and body. Absolute nothing. There was nothing to make a distinction. There was nothing to even have a distinction about.

I was slowly brought to the null void and slowly brought back. This was so far beyond any sense I've ever gotten from spiritual masters talking about emptiness, silence, stillness etc. Leo is the only person I know who I sense has been there and understands the direct experience. . . Breaking through was a rough ride though. My mind-body still has strong resistance to returning.

[Roman25]

How can one experience this void?

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

The null void was absolute nothing. There were no sensations. I was literally blind, deaf, no feeling, no taste, no smell. I was dead - mind and body. Absolute nothing. There was nothing to make a distinction. There was nothing to even have a distinction about.

I was slowly brought to the null void and slowly brought back. This was so far beyond any sense I've ever gotten from spiritual masters talking about emptiness, silence, stillness etc. It's the only awakening I've had that I sense many spiritual masters haven't had direct experience with. Leo is the only person I know who I sense has been there and understands the direct experience. . . Breaking through was a rough ride though. My mind-body has strong resistance to returning.

Seems very similar although I don’t remember. That seems to be me issue. You said it was chemically induced?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

How can one experience this void?

For me, a high dose of 5-meo-dmt. I would recommend novices be careful tho. I had a series of facet awakenings in the years leading up to this doozy.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

For me, a high dose of 5-meo-dmt. I would recommend novices be careful tho. I had a series of facet awakenings in the years leading up to this doozy.

Oh ok. I see why the difference. 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Seems very similar although I don’t remember. That seems to be me issue. You said it was chemically induced?

There is no way anyone could forget it. It would be like getting hit by a car and spending a week in a coma. 

I had several lite forms of the null void prior to full deal. 

Yes. 5-meo-dmt.

It has appeared in my life everyday since the experience.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

So, how can one say perception exists in the null void? Is this a radically deeper usage of the terms "perception" and "existence" or was it a partial awakening?

You need to distinguish awakening itself from changes to one's sensory field. Psychedelics tend to alter the sensory field a lot as well as produce awakening. It is possible to awaken without any change to the sensory field at all. And this is usually the case in non-psychedelic awakening. Or it's possible to have radical changes to the sensory field, such as the entire sensory field disappearing or morphing into fractals and all sorts of other stuff like a DMT alien hyperspace landscape.

If you are in pure void with no sensory field at all, then that would be pure void. Obviously there's nothing there. No perceptions, no forms at all. Like deep sleep. Obviously there are no colors and shapes in deep sleep.

BUT! That is not strictly necessary for awakening. You can awaken without your sensory field changing at all. In fact, you can realize that "the void" is ALWAYS the case! Even when the sensory field is fully here, it is still void. The sensory field is not other than void.

All of these possibilities are possible with or without psychedelics. But with psychedelics you are much more likely to get radical alterations of the sensory field.

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There is no way anyone could forget it. It would be like getting hit by a car and spending a coma. 

I had several lite forms of the null void prior to full deal. 

Yes. 5-meo-dmt.

It has appeared in my life everyday since the experience.

So it was an experience? I feel I am taking about something different then. There is no record or it’s like lost time. I wasn’t there to recall fear. I can’t remember anything. That’s why it’s dangerous. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

awakening becomes the experience after the fact when looked back on...rather an idea in your head about what "you experienced" 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by DrewNows

[Jack River]

There was no fear involved in this as I can recall. It seemed like total ending of being. 

I cant say it is an experience at all. I didn’t experience anything. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Mikael89 @Jack River

There are no words to describe it. Any word I use is a distinction. Any word I use is out of context. This was so far prior to any concepts. It was so far prior to any image. Prior to anything that can be imagined. Any thought, word, concept or image aint it. ALL that stuff got blown away in the beginning. It doesn't make sense, because it was prior to sense. It was prior to it.

So yeah, it wasn't an experience. It wasn't anything. 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

There is a simple word for that: passing out. (Unconsciousness).

Lol no it wasnt that. There were eyes on me. They said i was awake. 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv Nice one!