What Is Spirituality? - A No-Bullshit Intro -- So many questions....but Leo!?

[Lorcan]

A bit of context:

First. I would like to say. I do not know anything in terms of truth. Relatively I know about some things. I do not know that I do not know. I could go on; it would just me talking in an endless loop trying to explain myself. From my experience as being here 16 years (age).Whatever "this" or "reality" is, is a mystery.

I write this thread quite slowly I want to be careful.

I just happened to stumble upon Actualized.org one day by accident when I was 13. Something captivated me about it. I invested in a spiritual practice for a while, at my peak I had meditated more or less every day for 3 months in a row for 40 minutes. I think something happened however caused me to backslide, I got lazy, played video-games as always, girls and social status took more priority and space up in my mind. I always keep Actualized.org in my mind though, and intuit that is ultimately the right way. 

Note: I'll edit and add to this thread.  

Here are my questions after having listened to this video:

 

So what you’re saying is......:

I'll try my best to recall and paraphrase what was said in the video.

You say, what we are talking about here in terms of practicality is: Happiness, Peace of Mind, and the Elimination of Suffering.

You also say that these things are just the cherry on top, the icing, of the whole cake of the rewards that can come from spirituality. Radical stuff. Stuff that I can't even understand, beyond symbolism, so radical, that if you even began to try explain, it would affect your credibility. And you just tell me "You don't even understand, I can just tell you"

Well, if Happiness, Peace of Mind, and Elimination of Suffering are only ICING on the cake and the cake itself is SO GOOD, that it's in a different dimension of consciousness than the feeling of Happiness altogether. Yeah. I want that. As long as its pleasurable right? I understand that it may take suffering to get to the truth, but once I've "made it" its smooth sailing from there forever right?

Like how good is this? Is this like INFINITE pleasure, of the highest kind, forever? Really? If that is true. Of course I fucking want it. INFINITE pleasure?

My questions are:

One of the main questions I had that I had when I was watching the "Life is a Maze" video arose again when watching this video.

 What implications does it have on my death? What if I starve to death in the maze before I can escape? What I just die tomorrow because someone kills me? Then what?  What if I become enlightened THEN someone kills me? What then? Is death any different? Is there really anything to worry about? Is there any rush? Is it now or never? Do I have ONE chance to liberate myself, and I don't I'm stuck in delusion forever?

What actually happens after "death", and you very well know what I mean by that. (If you were hit by a train at 300mph for example).  Is there an "experience" after death, and can that experience be altered depending on what one did in life (such as becoming enlightened)?

Does EVERYONE have the same fate in terms of experience after death? Or does it depend on how deep into spirituality someone went? 

What is the difference between a rat dying in the maze before he can escape the maze versus the rat escaping the maze? The rat who escaped the maze still dies right????????? I mean, if a rat inside the maze witnessed the death of Eckhart Tolle, he would say that rat died.

Like what are the actual stakes here? If as a rat I die before I can escape the maze, is it a matter of missing out on a LOT of pleasure or getting permanently fucked over for infinity?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Lorcan
Cleaned up title formatting

[Leo Gura]

@Lorcan No, you don't understand.

YOU ARE JUST AN IDEA!

YOU DO NOT EXIST!

So there is nothing you can personally gain from spirituality. Therein lies the ultimate Goodness.

Goodness is NOT you getting stuff. Goodness is the end of you. Then, once you're dead, nothing can bother you any more and all becomes perfection.

The reason you cannot understand this is because you keep assuming you exist and there is stuff you can get.

Spirituality it deep counter-intuitive. Happiness only comes after you surrender your entire life to the Truth. You do not surrender to the Truth to get happiness. No! You surrender to the Truth believing that you've killed yourself and everything is fucked and destroyed.

THEN, and ONLY then, do you discover something beyond.

Almost every fiber of your being hates the Truth. Right now, you only care about the "truth" because you think it will get you something positive. But this is not Truth, this is falsehood.

You have to realize that YOU are the problem. And the solution will the elimination of yourself. Spirituality is a form of suicide. Which is why hardly anyone does it.

Imagine surrendering your entire life such that you didn't care any more what happened to you. That's what we're shooting for. For example, you don't care any more if you die or if you go to prison or get raped. You have completely surrendered your life to the universe's whims.

By surrendering EVERYTHING, you will gain the universe. And then you will be happy. Because you will be dead inside.

Truth = Death

You have to appreciate how serious this is. We are not talking in metaphors or playing word games. We are talking about your ACTUAL death. And you have to be wise enough to realize that death the best strategy. It is the only way to escape the maze.

You have to be wise enough to say, "Okay, fine. Death it is then. Let's do this."

You do not want this. It is impossible for an ego to want this.

Eckhart Tolle died the day he became enlightened. What you see now is a meat bag walking and talking which you call "Eckhart Tolle". It walks and talks, but it is just a zombie.

You are also just zombie, but you are in denial about it. All enlightenment is, is realizing you were always a zombie.

[cirkussmile]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Lorcan No, you don't understand.

YOU ARE JUST AN IDEA!

YOU DO NOT EXIST!

So there is nothing you can personally gain from spirituality. Therein lies the ultimate Goodness.

Goodness is NOT you getting stuff. Goodness is the end of you. Then, once you're dead, nothing can bother you any more and all becomes perfection.

The reason you cannot understand this is because you keep assuming you exist and there is stuff you can get.

Spirituality it deep counter-intuitive. Happiness only comes after you surrender your entire life to the Truth. You do not surrender to the Truth to get happiness. No! You surrender to the Truth believing that you've killed yourself and everything is fucked and destroyed.

THEN, and ONLY then, do you discover something beyond.

Almost every fiber of your being hates the Truth. Right now, you only care about the "truth" because you think it will get you something positive. But this is not Truth, this is falsehood.

You have to realize that YOU are the problem. And the solution will the elimination of yourself. Spirituality is a form of suicide. Which is why hardly anyone does it.

Imagine surrendering your entire life such that you didn't care any more what happened to you. That's what we're shooting for. For example, you don't care any more if you die or if you go to prison or get raped. You have completely surrendered your life to the universe's whims.

By surrendering EVERYTHING, you will gain the universe. And then you will be happy. Because you will be dead inside.

Truth = Death

You have to appreciate how serious this is. We are not talking in metaphors or playing word games. We are talking about your ACTUAL death. And you have to be wise enough to realize that death the best strategy. It is the only way to escape the maze.

You have to be wise enough to say, "Okay, fine. Death it is then. Let's do this."

You do not want this. It is impossible for an ego to want this.

Eckhart Tolle died the day he became enlightened. What you see now is a meat bag walking and talking which you call "Eckhart Tolle". It walks and talks, but it is just a zombie.

You are also just zombie, but you are in denial about it. All enlightenment is, is realizing you were always a zombie.

Leo definitely has his way of explaining things! 

I agree with everthing. Although I would have used other words  

The point is to discard everything that is not you which turns out to be exactly everything. 

[Dinesh Karki]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Lorcan No, you don't understand.

YOU ARE JUST AN IDEA!

YOU DO NOT EXIST!

So there is nothing you can personally gain from spirituality. Therein lies the ultimate Goodness.

Goodness is NOT you getting stuff. Goodness is the end of you. Then, once you're dead, nothing can bother you any more and all becomes perfection.

The reason you cannot understand this is because you keep assuming you exist and there is stuff you can get.

Spirituality it deep counter-intuitive. Happiness only comes after you surrender your entire life to the Truth. You do not surrender to the Truth to get happiness. No! You surrender to the Truth believing that you've killed yourself and everything is fucked and destroyed.

THEN, and ONLY then, do you discover something beyond.

Almost every fiber of your being hates the Truth. Right now, you only care about the "truth" because you think it will get you something positive. But this is not Truth, this is falsehood.

You have to realize that YOU are the problem. And the solution will the elimination of yourself. Spirituality is a form of suicide. Which is why hardly anyone does it.

Imagine surrendering your entire life such that you didn't care any more what happened to you. That's what we're shooting for. For example, you don't care any more if you die or if you go to prison or get raped. You have completely surrendered your life to the universe's whims.

By surrendering EVERYTHING, you will gain the universe. And then you will be happy. Because you will be dead inside.

Truth = Death

You have to appreciate how serious this is. We are not talking in metaphors or playing word games. We are talking about your ACTUAL death. And you have to be wise enough to realize that death the best strategy. It is the only way to escape the maze.

You have to be wise enough to say, "Okay, fine. Death it is then. Let's do this."

You do not want this. It is impossible for an ego to want this.

Eckhart Tolle died the day he became enlightened. What you see now is a meat bag walking and talking which you call "Eckhart Tolle". It walks and talks, but it is just a zombie.

You are also just zombie, but you are in denial about it. All enlightenment is, is realizing you were always a zombie.

Great. I have question leo? How can I enlightened If i have problem with focus, anxiety, depression, happiness ? 

[Leo Gura]

@Dinesh Karki There is no you.

[SoonHei]

muhfukkin Leo <3 

[Dinesh Karki]

@Leo Gura I am so serious I want to get enlightened. Is this possible i can get enlightened through meditation , I don't have resource like psychedelic etc. I am doing meditation since 6 months ago.(20min) 

[Lorcan]

 

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Lorcan No, you don't understand.

YOU ARE JUST AN IDEA!

YOU DO NOT EXIST!

So there is nothing you can personally gain from spirituality. Therein lies the ultimate Goodness.

Goodness is NOT you getting stuff. Goodness is the end of you. Then, once you're dead, nothing can bother you any more and all becomes perfection.

 

If this is the Truth. What do you mean by "Goodness" here. What is the ultimate goodness. Is is it an experience?

Why is it better off to be enlightened than to remain an idea? 

Actually, what is the total opposite of enlightenment. Why not just entrench myself in as many lies as possible?

Why does the truth just so happen to be the Ultimate Goodness? Why is truth not the Ultimate Badness?

Why is it worth doing, if I don't get anything out of it? I'm looking forward to the future videos, I mean, you did not even list all the reasons because you said it would affect your credibility.

Why do I want truth opposed to lies?

 

[SOUL]

JBP: Life is suffering!

Leo: Truth = Death!

SOUL:

[MM1988]

@Leo Gura You are not wrong but you talk about death and then always emphasize how you mean that literal and stuff like that. There are tons of newbies reading that please make a sticky thread or something where you go deeper into what you mean with that, because there are always suicide threads coming up here.

Edited September 7, 2018 by MM1988

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Lorcan said:

If this is the Truth. What do you mean by "Goodness" here. What is the ultimate goodness. Is is it an experience?

Why is it better off to be enlightened than to remain an idea? 

Actually, what is the total opposite of enlightenment. Why not just entrench myself in as many lies as possible?

Why does the truth just so happen to be the Ultimate Goodness? Why is truth not the Ultimate Badness?

Why is it worth doing, if I don't get anything out of it? I'm looking forward to the future videos, I mean, you did not even list all the reasons because you said it would affect your credibility.

Why do I want truth opposed to lies?

Goodness is pure being. The being that remains after death of the self.

Think about it, once you're dead, how can anything be bad when bad is always relative to ego? Badness becomes impossible without an ego. After death, nothing can hurt you. You become immortal.

There is reason for Truth. Truth is just the only thing that is. If you want to live wrapped in lies you're free to do so.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, MM1988 said:

@Leo Gura You are not wrong but you talk about death and then always emphasize how you mean that literal and stuff like that. There are tons of newbies reading that please make a sticky thread or something where you go deeper into what you mean with that, because there are always suicide threads coming up here.

I do so strategically.

Spirituality is the facing of one's own death. To not say that is simply to lie about what spirituality is.

There is no way to do genuine spirituality without facing one's death.

Obviously don't physically harm the body.

[Forestluv]

IME, my ego started getting cracks in it's structure. It's been a process of chipping away at it. Sometimes the ego suffers a major blow or temporary death. These experiences can be absolutely terrifying and/or absolutely beautiful. Yet, the ego tries to re-establish itself.

My ego shell is super thick. 20 years of meditation, retreats and dharma talks just scratched the surface of the shell. For me, I needed to get radical and take out the big guns to put a few permanent cracks in the shell. It's a game-changer.

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura I think I understand the Zombie analogy. You weren't born when you're not a Zombie and by your parents having sex and birthing you in the world it's like now you're bitten and you (or what we think is us) got the infection. Now the infection works little by little not instantaneously. Babies don't have a personality it takes time and little by little the zombiefication process takes hold through the way our parents, society, and what we can collect with our senses interacts with us. Then a zombie just wants to create more Zombies (that's why in zombie video games and movies you just don't see one you see tons) so they bite more non-existence and infinity (by constantly having sex) to create more zombies. Also in the video games you see that you can take off a zombies legs, arms, torso and parts of there face but, they are numb they keep moving with their arms and legs just to get close to a person and bite them to create more. In this case these zombies have their dreams and hopes dashed and destroyed and mentally they are sick and suffering yet they still have that desire to bite (have more sex) and create more of themselves. It's a vicious cycle and I'm doing my part to stop it. Also I just put my head down on my bed trying to get this narrative machine that never shuts up to shut up and it was the best experience ever. So I look forward to the end of this zombie. The terrible part about it is the other zombies around keep biting you to infect you when you don't want to be a zombie anymore. They keep wanting you to care about things and pump you with religious bullshit and morality bullshit on why you shouldn't just disconnect from the mundane world especially your parents and the pieces of crap schools who bite you the hardest by making sure you're always busy. 

[Lorcan]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Goodness is pure being. The being that remains after death of the self.

Think about it, once you're dead, how can anything be bad when bad is always relative to ego? Badness becomes impossible without an ego. After death, nothing can hurt you. You become immortal.

There is reason for Truth. Truth is just the only thing that is. If you want to live wrapped in lies you're free to do so.

If pure being is an attainable state. Is it permanent or temporary? Will eckhart tolle experience be different from what he experiences now versus what he experience 60 seconds after being hit by a nuclear bomb? What is the difference in experience? Should'nt it be the same because he was always dead in the first place?

Do you need an ego in the first place to become enlightened? 

If I die before coming enlightened? What happens? What causes an ego to arise in the first place? Who is lying?

If I do not become enlightened in this life? Will I ever become enlightened? If death is truth. That means everyone gets to experience it and everything is ok right?????? Once dead, how do you stop being alive? Life = lies?

 

Is the ego kind of like the dark sign curse from dark souls?

"The Darksign signifies an accursed Undead. Those branded with it are reborn after death, but will one day lose their mind and go Hollow"

?????????

Can there be experience outside of ego, or is experience limited to ego? 

If death = truth,  what is the point in inducing death via spirituality early thus experiencing the "truth" when everyone dies anyway and thus also gets to experience "the truth".

What is the difference here?????? What is the difference? I don't mean to be the annoying skeptic who only just machine gun fires questions. It is just your not directly answering a lot of these questions. Is it because I need to experience the answer for myself? Wha? The longest spiritual practice I have had was 40 minutes a day for 3 months. And nothing happened. Sure it felt good, but nothing happened. Is an answer supposed to just pop up?

If Spirituality is facing ones own death, then everyone is basically forced to do it as some point, and gets the truth in the end. Soo..... what are the consequences for not discovering the truth before dying? What is the closest thing to "hell", and how can you avoid hell? Can "hell" only exist with lies? 

Does truth mean ultimate freedom from suffering forever? 

I want to understand, what your saying does not make much sense.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Lorcan

[Fuku]

Hijacking the topic so I don't have to create another one just for this question but around 1"17"30 in the video, what other forms of spirituality are you talking about?
I think the people on this forum are pretty open-minded so maybe if you can at least name it, not even go into details. If not, and you want to keep it for future videos, it's fine, this just got me curious
@Leo Gura

Edited September 14, 2018 by Fuku

[Roman25]

I am an idea... lol.. tough pill to swallow.