JohnnyRocket

Jordan Peterson

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@CreamCat Psychopathic?

Lol

I don't think you understand what that word means.

Do some feminists go overboard? Sure. Jailing people without a trial is wrong and should be resisted. But this does not make feminists Red or psychopaths. It's just a political position you disagree with.

A Red psychopath is Woody Harrelson in Natural Born Killers.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychopathic?

Lol

I don't think you understand what that word means.

I consider them psychopathic mainly because they are often seen fantasizing about killing men on their websites. Talking about kiling men is their regular meal. They show predatory emotions like glee when they talk about it. I understand psychopaths as intra-species predators.

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat Killing men?? Who are you talking about? No serious person fits that description.

If you are going to use your mind to cherry-pick the worst of the worst, you're in big trouble. You have to look at the center of gravity of groups, not at fringe nutcases.


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@Leo Gura You're right that they are at the fringe. But, they often launch street demonstrations where 10,000 of them protest.  They said 30,000~70,000 of them joined the protest, but the number was somewhat exaggerated. 10,000 is the right number. Some major newspapers sympathize with their nature. And, less radical internet feminists have their own communities. Those less radical ones don't have murder fantasies, but they think of radical feminists as useful idiots who would benefit their own egos. It's typical egoic selfishness. It's not limited to feminism. American government agencies were caught funding islamic fundamentalists in the middle east because these agencies thought those fundamentalists were useful idiots. I thought USA was better than this. Those less radical ones say they are a few millions in number, and the number seems approximately right since they manifest the numbers in online votes. They gladly use feminist fundamentalists as useful idiots in bids for supremacy.

The center of gravity of feminism in my country(e.g., some political parties) has often been seen showing support for radical feminists. The center of gravity is not necessarily in mainstream politics, though. However, they are slowly trying to deny ties with radical feminists because the public opinion is getting worse due to support for radical feminism. But, I'm not yet seeing the center of gravity try to clearly demarcate itself from radical feminism.

Feminism as a political movement is as disappointing as government agencies waging proxy wars through foreign fundamentalists in foreign soil.

I think that radical feminists and those numerous feminists who use radical feminists as useful idiots are mutants that Green needs to get rid of or detach from.

It seems there is no saint in political movements. In the end, feminism cannot rise above the developmental level of its constituents.

I might be wrong because radical feminism and its numerous public allies may be the loudest and the most conspicuous, but not necessarily the most numerous. I don't think I'm necessarily cherry-picking because their media presence has been growing quickly recently. It seems like a fad. It could very well be a bloated publicity stunt designed to make radical feminism look bigger than it is.

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat I'm curious, how many scholarly feminist books have you read?

Please post us a number.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I think I am starting to realize how Peterson is Blue Stage. 

He pushes sacrifice, marriage, kids, working hard and being responsible, and is trying to bring the Bible to the mainstream world.

His videos sound like sermons at church - brought down to a "washed down" level that Atheists and Agnostics won't run away from.

He can instill Biblical principles into people and they don't even realize what is happening. If he mixes Bible topics, mythology, and Disney movies all in one package, people will be less suspicious.

Well done Peterson. haha 

Genius, really. 

Edited by Brittany

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@Brittany I would not classify him as purely stage Blue. He is definitely much more nuanced than a solid Blue person. Solid Blue is like Mike Pence or Jerry Falwell.

Peterson is not a religious fundamentalist.

He is very Orange with stripes of Blue and some hints of Yellow, and a big inflammed Green shadow.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura Zero. I don't claim that what I described is real feminism. All I can say about feminism is people who claim to be feminists in real life. At least, I know that those radical ones and their allies are not real feminists according to dictionary or in an academic sense. I perceive it as a serious impostor problem. However, some feminist or gender-study professors also expressed verbal support for radical feminism. It seems impostors reside in academia, too. It makes sense because some biology professors spout bullshits like "Vitamin D generated from the sun is not the same as Vitamin D from Tuna."

It is said that most self-proclaimed feminists didn't read any feminist book, either.

I heard radical feminists in my country work very hard on suppressing other kinds of feminists.

Sturgeon's Law states that 90% of everything is crap. Bad currency drives out good because it is so easy to produce bad currency. Trolls and psychopaths drive out good people through sheer force of arguments when there is no proper immune system. Islam was supposed to be like actualized.org, but fundamentalists hijacked islam a long time ago.

I suspect infinite intelligence is forging a worse version of trump for my country.

Edited by CreamCat

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9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Brittany I would not classify him as purely stage Blue. He is definitely much more nuanced than a solid Blue person. Solid Blue is like Mike Pence or Jerry Falwell.

Peterson is not a religious fundamentalist.

He is very Orange with stripes of Blue and some hints of Yellow, and a big inflammed Green shadow.

I agree. In order to make Atheists  want to hear about the Bible, which many have failed at,  he is quite progressive. 

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36 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Of course, because you are just reacting to it from ego identity.

That's your problem right there. It would be wise to actually do some reading and research before talking about feminism.

I would bet that 98% of JP fan have not read a single feminist work. That is the whole appeal of JP: he offers and ideology with which to demonize and attack others without doing an serious research into their POV and why post-modernism arose in the first place.

This whole JP fandom is rooted in lack of education.

You must learn to take on other points of view, not just insist on your own being right. All POVs are partial and relative.

That is the lesson of post-modernism which is being missed by JP fans. They do not give a rats ass about seriously exploring other POVs. Which requires reading and research.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura I don't deny that I am reacting to it from my ego agenda. It just appears that radical feminists are successful at suppressing other kinds of feminism in my country. They performed a lot of publicity stunts on media recently. They are good at making people believe that radical feminism is the mainstream. There weren't publicity stunts a few years ago.

Radical feminism is a fad in my country for now. I can say that they are working very hard to expand their influence.

It looks like game of thrones to me. It's just that radical feminism is in throne at the moment. All I can relate to is game of thrones going on in media. This game of thrones has almost nothing to do with feminism. I also heard some rich people funded radical feminism to divert people's attention from important issues through publicity stunts. Many young women think radical feminism is hip and cool.

I'd like you to consider the possibility that people who claim to be feminists are also following their ego agenda. Most people are sheeps that just follow latest trends. Feminism is in big trouble.

Quote

It would be wise to actually do some reading and research before talking about feminism.

I think actual feminism would be different from media queens who claim to be radical feminists. I don't think I need a book to talk about game of thrones played on media by self-proclaimed radical feminists. I think it's not feminism but game of thrones.

Quote

This whole JP fandom is rooted in lack of education.

I'm not a fan of JP although I was impressed by his verbal skills when he conversed with Cathy Newman. I watched only a handful videos of JP. My first impression of feminism came from publicity stunts, not from JP. I live very very far from USA and Canada where people don't speak english. JP doesn't have a lot of influence here.

Quote

he offers and ideology with which to demonize and attack others without doing an serious research into their POV and why post-modernism arose in the first place.

I'm not against feminism or post-modernism per se. Post-modernists made mistakes such as believing there is no truth until trump became the president and said there was no truth. There are people who are dogmatic about feminism or post-modernism. But, I don't know much about it to have a strong opinion about it. What I am against is self-proclaimed radical feminists who are big on media. I also don't like dogmatism which is like believing that black hole is absolutely real. There are always holes in a theory that expose a theory's fictitious nature. I intuit that feminism and post-modernism are ultimately fictions as much as black hole theory and science are. I don't have absolute trust in fictions.

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat How would you know if you can't even be bothered to read 5 books on the subject?

How about you read 5 books written by feminists and 5 books written by post-modernists, and then we talk.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura Are you implying that radical feminists on media could be actual feminists and they actually make sense as feminists in feminist point of view? Are you implying that actual feminists have valid reasons to support so-called radical feminists? What am I missing? I don't need to read those books to understand game of thrones in disguise of (radical) feminism. I cannot imagine on my own how murder fantasies can be sympathized with by feminism.

I was once a nationalist and fantasized murdering foreign people who invaded us in the past, but I never talked about my fantasies. I eventually realized foreign people are just like us. Oh my god, I fantasized killing innocent people. I recognized myself as a murderous asshole that I was. I am a completely different person now. Is feminism like my version of nationalism?

Can you summarize what you want to convey in a few sentences or a few paragraphs? I don't want to wait until I read 5~10 books. I'm quite bogged down with my own work. I will need some serious motivation to even consider reading feminist books or post-modernism books.

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat I am implying that you are uneducated about the topics you speak so passionately about.

In fact, your passion is no accident. It is there precisely so that you don't feel the need to pick up a book.

I am not going to explain feminism or post-modernism to you on a forum because these are nuanced topics which entire books have been written about and which require years of study to understand properly. These are not conversations for online keyboard jockeys. These are serious intellectual pursuits.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura What about murderous bitches? Do I need a book to know that I should avoid them? I mean, practically it's enough to know that I should avoid murderous bitches and their public allies especially when I'm one of the targets of their murder fantasies. What most people care about is practical safety measures.

You are focused on nuances. I'm focused on practicality and what to do about them personally. My personal policy is to avoid them and not assume they are actual feminists because feminism is a deep topic. I'm passionate about my own practicality for most topics. My real passion is reserved for a few topics related to my life purpose and my job.

What can you speak in a practical point of view? Did you not say we should practically cut toxic people out of our lives in one of your videos?

Edited by CreamCat

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2 hours ago, CreamCat said:

@Leo Gura I don't deny that I am reacting to it from my ego agenda. It just appears that radical feminists are successful at suppressing other kinds of feminism in my country. They performed a lot of publicity stunts on media recently. They are good at making people believe that radical feminism is the mainstream. There weren't publicity stunts a few years ago.

Radical feminism is a fad in my country for now. I can say that they are working very hard to expand their influence.

It looks like game of thrones to me. It's just that radical feminism is in throne at the moment. All I can relate to is game of thrones going on in media. This game of thrones has almost nothing to do with feminism. I also heard some rich people funded radical feminism to divert people's attention from important issues through publicity stunts. Many young women think radical feminism is hip and cool.

I'd like you to consider the possibility that people who claim to be feminists are also following their ego agenda. Most people are sheeps that just follow latest trends. Feminism is in big trouble.

I think actual feminism would be different from media queens who claim to be radical feminists. I don't think I need a book to talk about game of thrones played on media by self-proclaimed radical feminists. I think it's not feminism but game of thrones.

I'm not a fan of JP although I was impressed by his verbal skills when he conversed with Cathy Newman. I watched only a handful videos of JP. My first impression of feminism came from publicity stunts, not from JP. I live very very far from USA and Canada where people don't speak english. JP doesn't have a lot of influence here.

I'm not against feminism or post-modernism per se. Post-modernists made mistakes such as believing there is no truth until trump became the president and said there was no truth. There are people who are dogmatic about feminism or post-modernism. But, I don't know much about it to have a strong opinion about it. What I am against is self-proclaimed radical feminists who are big on media. I also don't like dogmatism which is like believing that black hole is absolutely real. There are always holes in a theory that expose a theory's fictitious nature. I intuit that feminism and post-modernism are ultimately fictions as much as black hole theory and science are. I don't have absolute trust in fictions.

You seem to have great trust in yourself.

Trump doesn't say there's no truth. He's doing the opposite, actually.


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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24 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Trump doesn't say there's no truth. He's doing the opposite, actually.

On https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38191313/no-truth-in-journalism-trump-voters-cast-wide-net-for-news, trump said there is no truth in journalism. He said that probably because some news media attacked him.

On https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838, trump's lawyer said "truth isn't truth".

Trump and his lawyer demonstrated that relativism can be abused. They figuratively slapped post-modernists in their faces because post-modernists used to say there is no truth, too.

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat I will make a video about Post-Modernism at some point.

And probably one on Jordan Peterson specifically. Although I do not want to get into debates with his cult like followers. They will not be open to hearing what they need hear about him. So there will be a lot of stage Orange denial.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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