JohnnyRocket

Jordan Peterson

238 posts in this topic

@Leo Gura

I'm no fan of him, but I wouldn't say JP is about keeping the status quo when Canada is in full blown stage green.

Edited by TomDashingPornstar

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10 hours ago, Kosmos said:

@Serotoninluv

It's curious how we want to have certainty in our interpretation of what things mean, and of how to structure our identities.

I definitely feel this need. To create a coherent story and map of what exactly Jordan Peterson is and means for society and myself. It's something like, feeling as if The Answer is in more personal integration and coherence. If only I could have deeper understanding, rid myself of ignorance and create a more accurate and beautiful map...

And yet, spiral dynamics is a map, a powerful meta map, but a map none the less. There are plenty of other meta maps, including much more comprehensive ones. For example Ken Wilber's AQAL meta meta map, which includes spiral dynamics as one component.

So there is a (necessary?) illusion in saying "Ah ha! I know how Jordan Peterson (or any person/topic/paradigm) fits into the bigger picture. Here is my beautiful map. The coherent and non contradictory map, or at least a transitional map on the way to the eventual coherent and non contradictory map!"

I don't think that coherent destination can ever be reached, eventually, at some point in people's growth, the whole project might be appropriately given up. Safe in the knowledge (new illusion?) that collectively, all our maps will balance each other out and cover the blind spots and flaws in any one individual map. It's all just an illusion, but a necessary illusion, because if we didn't have it, why would we even invest in creating detailed maps in the first place?

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, I have a desire to feel grounded/settled with a story or map. "Ahh, this is how it is. It makes sense now". As you described, this is one limited perspective. I see how I wanted to make a nice and tidy story about JP and orange/blue. I now take a step back and realize I know very little, that it is more complex than I imagined and there are more sophisticated views that I'm currently unable to grasp. I'm very much a student of yellow and not yet proficient by any means. 

Regarding JP, it's more important for me to understand modes of thinking and levels of consciousness than categorizing people. It's so easy for attachment and identification to creep in. I'm trying to have a more meta view here. Leaving JP's personality out of it, it seemed like I described a green perspective on the issue and you described what a yellow perspective might look like. I defiantly want to become "fluent" at yellow. Sometimes, it feels like learning a foreign language.

Thanks for the Wilber book suggestion. I'm currently reading Spiral Dynamics and look forward to expanding the model in the future.

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3 hours ago, TomDashingPornstar said:

@Leo Gura

I'm no fan of him, but I wouldn't say JP is about keeping the status quo when Canada is in full blown stage green.

Conservatives are for the status quo of yesteryear. The way things were before evolution happened.

They fundamentally do not understand why evolution is happening and why it cannot unhappen.

1st world countries are never going to undo post-modernism. They can only go into post-post-modernism (Yellow). But that requires more people learn the lessons of post-modernism.

The opposite of JP says is true: way too few humans being on Earth have learned the lessons of post-moderism.

Few of JP fans have any idea what post-modernism really is. They just imbide JP's demonization if it in the same way creationists demonize Darwin without seriously reading Darwin.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Conservatives are for the status quo of yesteryear. The way things were before evolution happened.

They fundamentally do not understand why evolution is happening and why it cannot unhappen.

1st world countries are never going to undo post-modernism. They can only go into post-post-modernism.

When 1st world countries evolve into post-post-modernism, will conservatives of the future be defending post-modernism?

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Just now, Serotoninluv said:

When 1st world countries evolve into post-post-modernism, will conservatives of the future be defending post-modernism?

Of course


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course

I find relative thinking to be more fun than logical thinking :)

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@Serotoninluv Cause you're a just a soy-drinking post-modernist communist who's poisoning our children's minds with your liberal college ideology.

You probably don't even say "Merry Christmas", do you?

And if you had a daughter you'd probably make her grow a penis.

:P


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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 Jordan Peterson shows that it's not just chasing money that leads to unhappiness, it's also chasing teaching/changing the world that does as well.  Neurotically trying to change the world through a single perspective.  Think about it -- how's that any less neurotic than trying to amass great wealth through a single perspective?  In a way it's kinda the same thing.  It's you trying to control Experience.  See, the thought never crosses people's minds, what if I transcend Experience instead of trying to change it?  And suffering is caused by entanglement in Experience and also by entanglement in Thought.  The day you realize Liberation is you sitting around with nothing to do will be a major insight.  Happiness, interestingly enough, is doing nothing.  I totally understand now why people become Buddhist monks.  Just having a job puts you asshole-to-bellybutton with trying to control Experience.  The happiest you're ever gonna be is when you're maintaining God Awareness and looking down on and through Experience and Thought as illusory Maya.  But oh no we can't do that because we need to be 'successful' right?  Well, that's a Thought you're clinging to for sure.  What's it gonna matter on your deathbed?  You can't take anything with you.  See, the only thing that's of true value is happiness right now.  So, under the right circumstances and training, it's the person who does nothing in life that ends up the happiest in life.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

firstphilosophy.org

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37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv Cause you're a just a soy-drinking post-modernist communist who's poisoning our children's minds with your liberal college ideology.

You probably don't even say "Merry Christmas", do you?

And if you had a daughter you'd probably make her grow a penis.

:P

And teaching genetics is sooo much more fun now that I don’t have to teach it as if it was actually true ?

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1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

And teaching genetics is sooo much more fun now that I don’t have to teach it as if it was actually true ?

There you go again with your chaos talk. Destroying the fabric of decent society. Turning impressionable young adults into nihilists and gays and animal rights activists. What's next, equal treatment for blacks?


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There you go again with your chaos talk. Destroying the fabric of decent society. Turning impressionable young adults into nihilists and gays and animal rights activists. What's next, equal treatment for blacks?

Yep. Looks like I’ve got to pass through Greenville on my way to Turqoise-land. 

I’m hanging out with Mother Nature and all her beautiful creatures. Today I made love bracelets for next weekend’s transgender hippy parade. Oh, and the veggie smoothies here are delicious ?.  I’ll send a postcard soon. 

As they like to say here: One love and peace out ✌️ ❤️ 

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53 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Today I made love bracelets for next weekend’s transgender hippy parade. Oh, and the veggie smoothies here are delicious ?.  I’ll send a postcard soon.

Do professors have time for this? I thought professors were too busy to even hang out with their kids. The professors I saw were workaholics and worried about being fired. They were busy chasing grants and reading papers and managing graduate students. In other words, they looked like overworked field managers.

I probably got that impression because there is no tenured professor in my country.

Edited by CreamCat

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17 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Do professors have time for this? I thought professors were too busy to even hang out with their kids.

I work at a progressive liberal arts college. An initiative from our diversity committee was recently approved. Professors are now allowed to use up to 20% of class time for “hands-on experiential activities that foster unity and harmony within the community”. 

Next week, we will be making clay statues of various groups that are marginalized, disadvantaged and underrepresented. We will next paint the statues with paint purchased from developing countries under a fair trade policy (the workers receive liveable wages and have humane working conditions). Next, we will arrange the statues in a way that symbolizes inclusion and equality.

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@Serotoninluv It seems that Green is good for professors' quality of life. I'm worried that AIs might replace most professors in the 21st century. On one hand, AIs will take jobs from humans. On the other hand, AIs will give humans more time to enjoy life.

 

Edited by CreamCat

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@CreamCat That video clip is mind blowing! That’s totally going to happen some day. Come to think of it, don’t we know live in a similar illusionary world?

I think the video is  adanced AI. 50+ years away

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8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

don’t we know live in a similar illusionary world?

Not similar. Our automation technologies lag far behind that game.

Machine learning is primitive, compared to a true AI.

Edited by CreamCat

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4 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Not similar. Our automation technologies lag far behind that game.

Machine learning is primitive, compared to a true AI.

I meant that our current reality is like a dream. How different are we from conscious AI machines?

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1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

How different are we from conscious AI machines?

Those AIs in that game are not designed to be conscious. But, they seem to gain consciousness later.

They look and act like humans. But, actual egoic AIs will probably think and act differently from humans.

Their consciousness would have different qualities than ours. But, awareness will be the same.

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Do you consider the concept of the game to be advanced?  Are the game developers super innovative, creative and visionary? Or is it just another cool game?

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