Self-inquiry is almost 180 degrees away from enlightenment (read if you are a seeker)

[molosku]

Provoking and arrogant title, eh? Well, got your attention    I'll try to keep this post not to long as my point/thought is simple. All of this is coming from someone who has not had an enlightenment "experience", but has had a few glimpses of it through psychedelic experiences, and has some ideas to share. If you have loads of beliefs what enlightenment is or how to get there, i suggest you empty your mind a bit and read this with an open mind. Some of the claims made here are intended to be a bit provoking and even harsh, try to read between the lines. I do contradict myself on purpose. What I claim here, is not intended as a truth, more like an opening for a discussion.

What enlightenment is not (as i have understood it intellectually, having done research for a little over 2 years now):

• Some trick you can "hack" with your mind
• An experience, state or mystical or even spiritual "happening"
• Something done with the mind with years and years of super hard work
• A "product" of any kind of "consciousness work"
• Something you need to rise your awareness to (just bear with me)
• Anything done or experienced through the mind (image, thought etc.)
• Anything that requires a "way" or a process
• "Higher knowledge" you do not currently posses, any grasp of something
• Something you get closer to by reading and researching about it
• Something you get closer to by meditating lots (i know i know, just bear with me)
• Something that is hard to reach
• Something someone or some tradition could ever teach you or get you closer to

What enlightenment is:

• "Its not something you gain, its something you lose" - Adyashanti
• That which you always have been: your being as it is.
• Your being
• YOUR BEING!! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?!
• BE IT NOW!
• BE! IT! NOW!

 

Why on earth you should spend hours upon hours on "concentrating" (not even going to detail on how hard it is to build your concentration abilities, even more stuff to be put before enlightenment before you allow yourself to be "developed" enough) on something that you already know is not there? If you seriously contemplate the method that is inquiry, and compare it to what you are trying to "achieve" whit it, the whole notion of inquiry as a process or non-process or non-non-process should rise your eyebrows (assuming you don't have massive misconceptions about enlightenment). There seems to be a mismatch of the end and the method. You are trying to put out a small, harmless looking yet very persistant fire  with a flamethrower.

I DO think that self-inquiry is important in the beginning so that you begin to get in touch what you currently think and feel, and how groundless your beliefs are, but after a while (for me it was after about 50 hours total of self-inquiry) you begin to realize that what you essentially are doing will never ever work because its just hard labor done with the mind, extra work that blinds you from your actual being. Its the mind wrestling with itself asking silly questions it has no authority to answer anyway and just juggling with words, images and thoughts.

I do admit that self-inquiry could potentially  trigger some "i really don't know"-experience, which certainly would be profound to experience, but that would still be a realization about the groundlessness of your beliefs, and not about your direct being nature. I would imagine this experience to be something like an intellectual realization of the big picture of your web of beliefs.

I don't disregard self-inquiry entirely here, but I'm questioning the the directness of it, as it is often sold as such: THE most direct way to enlightenment. I do not claim that inquiry will never get you enlightened, but I do claim that it might be the opposite of what is being sold: the most strenuous and longest path to enlightenment. The method you are going trough in your mind over and over again is like realizing that you don't know where your wallet is, going to google and finding out that you never had a wallet in the first place, and then going to the Himalayas trying to find it just because hey, I haven't checked there yet and I don't really feel like my wallet does not exist, even though I know it doesn't  and it certainly wont be in the Himalayas once I start looking for it there! ......wait, what?

I have heard stories of zen-monks getting enlightened after years of trying and trying and meditating hours upon hours and then experiencing a total collapse of their spirit and trust to the path they have chosen, a true realization of utter failure. And then it hits them. Could it be that the point of self-inquiry is actually to send the seeker to the wrong way on purpose, so that they have to realize their wasted efforts themselves?

 

Here's a fun metaphor i came up with:

 

Imagine enlightenment as the essential realization of the taste of ice cream . You are interested to actualize that, and you know that you don't yet experience it because some people wrote so in some books and made videos about it in youtube. You intellectually understand there is a big possibility that what they are saying is true, but the personal experience is lacking. So you sit down to eat ice cream and with an open mind, inquire about the taste for an hour every day and it goes a little bit like this:

*take a spoonfull and toss it around in your mouth*

"what do I believe is the taste? Is the taste the ice cream the box it was sold in? Is it the chunks I can feel in my mouth?"

*another spoonfull*

"not sure it's these chocolate chunks. Is it? is it? what is my answer to this? Is it me who is coming up with the answer or the ice cream?"

*another spoonfull*

"hmmm I still dont get it.... maybe another bite will do the trick? Maybe i'll try not to think about it too much and see where it gets me"

*another spoonfull, ice cream now sitting and melting in the mouth*

".............. iiiiiis THIS my enlightenment? no? hmmm.... curious...." 

 

See where I'm getting at?  What that guy should have done is just shut up and                      ______'blank' , 'nothing' , 'emptiness'______

 

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There is no process to realize the taste, there is nothing more or less to it than that which it always was, you could do absolutely nothing to realize the taste that you are already tasting 100%. For me, counter intuitively only the total giving up of the search (and accepting that it is so) seems to be a step in the right direction. That and also disregard of any further research about it, in fact I wish i forgot everything I knew about it except maybe a small gentle guiding sentence like: "Be what you are, and nothing else" would be enough instructions to actualize enlightenment.

With a quick google search, the word inquiry is defined as: a seeking or request for truth, information, or knowledge an investigation, as into an incident, the act of inquiring or of seeking information by questioning, interrogation. 

So if you intellectually accept that the question "who am I" or "what am I" has no real answer you can derive with your mind, and that you "are already" enlightened and you are the awareness, why on earth would you spend any more time trying to figure out  the only single thing you have always known for absolute certain: the knowing part of your being, the knowing of experience or the awareness. It is already 100% there for you and it has nothing up its sleeve that you don't get to see. Nothing is hidden. For you, it should be the only thing you literally CANT inquire into, and it should sound like a joke to you. There are infinite amount of things you could try to wrap your mind around and to contemplate upon and you are spending your time inquiring into the only thing you already know 100%? What are you doing???!

What do you expect to find out with inquiry exactly? If you inquire into a cucumber, do you expect to eventually after years of hard daily work, to realize something about the existential nature of the cucumber that is fundamentally and profoundly more cucumber than the cucumber?

There is no further knowledge to be gained about yourself after you first learn what the truth of no self is. This does not mean there is no further experience that can be had about/from consciousness, just not about YOU. Just because you don't fully realize it now, does not necessarily mean that there is lots of work to be done (although there is, and also is not, but also is, and is not, but there really is some, but there really isn't.... i wont go into this here).

I really have to question the whole notion of "doing the work" to reach enlightenment, because it stink of human nature: we see and conceptualize a feat (build a hut, protect the family, kill a deer, reach enlightenment) and then attack it until an end is met. Could it be that this approach has limits? 

 

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Counter intuitively, it would seem to me that the bigger and more significant the subject, the more research should be put into it, but the most ultimate subject of them all should be left with as little research as possible. Reality is just so twisted and tricky and plain impossible that this kind of paradox would be JUST the kind of joke reality would dig. I won't go into detail here what I think one should really be doing, but i a have a gut feeling that rising your consciousness and meditating might be acts worth considering, that much i'll guess, and my guess is just that: a fools hope. After all this is said, a very important notion has to be mentioned:

 

 

Everything said here is just another belief

 

 

I wish everyone some ice cream time in moderation!

"We should really be concerning ourselves not with the pursuit of happiness, but with the happiness of pursuit" - Raja Ram

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by molosku

[Psyche_92]

Meh, i still don't understand it lol. Sometimes i wish i never knew about this. 
I've came to so many moments of wanting to go back to my old life, where i didn't care about seeking. Now i can't even stop it. It's a pain in the ass. 

[Nahm]

If it seems hard, it’s because of the overwhelming amount of clues, and the impatience, so meditate. If you want to be the truth, start realizing how deep your belief rabbit hole is. Do you believe you were born? Do you believe breathing air is keeping you alive? 

[phoenix666]

@Nahm I believe that breathing air is keeping me alive. how do I detach from that belief? how do I experience otherwise?

[Lauritz]

I enjoyed reading your post. I reflects my own thoughts from time to time. I am interested in Truth on the one hand but at the same time feel that it will get me nowhere. Then I think, I am happy with being, what could there be more and meditation happens naturally. Thoughts loose their importance and just flow by.

On my psychedelic journeys I had this strong intuition that I tried to solve the mystery of reality already for many many lifetimes. That it is impossible to solve. After the trips my gratitude for the fact that I exist and am aware of it is incredibly high. But it seems to fade after a few weeks when life regains its grasp ("something really important comes around") on me to a degree. I am at a point where I think I can flow with everything, as long as I remain present.

I see value in mainly three things when it comes to realizing Truth and a pain-free, worry-less atittude towards life (or ultimately enlightenment):

- Resting in Awareness (Meditation-Practice or All-Day-Awareness)

- Psychedelics

- Conceptual Knowledge 

 

I see conceptual knowledge more as entertainment these days. I introduce myself to new concepts and see how I can validate them. But in and of themselves they should always be regarded as something that arises in awareness. So it can never be the absolute truth. Similar to a sign-post on a hiking track, which is not the track. To see how this could not be any other way, psychedelics can help greatly.

[Nahm]

@phoenix666 Other than self inquiry, meditation, healthy eating, exercise....you could try the logical biological route. Try to establish with some certainty where you physically begin & end. Be literal. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@molosku The Mind has to have good reason to cannibalize the Ego for you.  So, you do gotta feed the Mind info to obtain the levels of awareness required to achieve this effect.  The Mind has to realize — Oh!  This is hurting me!  That requires as much awareness as you can get.  The more the better.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[bobbyward]

It comes down to suffering, if you are suffering it is impossible not to seek happiness, if you are not suffering there is nothing to seek. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Lauritz The idea that conceptual knowledge is mere entertainment is a false and limiting-belief.  Conceptual knowledge is necessary for raising awareness.  Let’s not get so smart that we start denying solid stuff.  Think about it, you are using concepts to trivialize concepts.  This is a common trap; a phase that I went through myself in this work, which is why I now see the trap because I came out the other end of it.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[YaNanNallari]

I think that if one sees self-inquiry like you do you're correct. I'm very very new to self inquiry, but this is how I see it. The inquiry is only the start to get you to focus on the feeling of emptiness and giving up, although you want to try to stay detached from those as well. You ask the question, pay attention to the feeling, repeat.

Also you talked about doing the work. Leo himself has indeed pointed out that work is only a concept, not to mention him mentioning "the map is not the territory" in I think his latest video.

Also Leo has also pointed out that self inquiry shouldn't be "habitual" meaning that you should try to be aware of these things as you go over them again. It shouldn't be just you going through a checklist in your mind of what you are and what you're not. Doing it with a fresh consciousness raising approach every time.

Edited November 25, 2017 by YaNanNallari

[Pierre]

@molosku I totally agree with you. The term "Self-inquiry" gives the impression of a very active mental activity. It's an excellent exemple of how a crappy translation can badly mislead people. A more accurate translation of Atma-Vicara would be "Self-resting" or "Self-Abiding", a relaxed way of just being this spacious awareness. 

[Shin]

Quote

I DO think that self-inquiry is important in the beginning

That's how I see it too.

When you've come to the point that you really don't know what you are, self-inquiry become just a doing.

Better going for a long walk in the forest, in total silence, just admiring the beauty and mistery of nature at this point, it will be far more pleasant and effective.
If it's winter, then just meditate and be, which will be the same thing at some point. It's when you surrender to the fact that you can't do shit that it comes, which DOES NOT means you should be lazy and stay inconscious watching tv, having low quality sex or playing video game all day (or whatever you do that makes you inconscious).
It only means you acknowledge that the only thing you can really do is to let yourself be in the present moment without resistance whatever you do, that's what it means.

[molosku]

2 hours ago, Pierre said:

@molosku I totally agree with you. The term "Self-inquiry" gives the impression of a very active mental activity. It's an excellent exemple of how a crappy translation can badly mislead people. A more accurate translation of Atma-Vicara would be "Self-resting" or "Self-Abiding", a relaxed way of just being this spacious awareness. 

I really got to give credit to Rubert Spira for giving me a whole bunch of new ideas about what I probably should be doing. He speaks exactly about that: the mistransaltion of "atma-vicara"

[Shin]

Also, if we really wanted it, really REALLY wanted it, we would take 5-meo every 2/3 months, and that's it.

If you don't do that, then you're aren't ready or you simply don't want it.

@molosku Why in 10 years ? Why not in 6 months ? Why not this month or this week ?

You see, pushing back things we want to do or are afraid to do, with good reasonings behind them is always a sign of self-deception.

I'm as guilty as anyone, I admit I'm a pussy, otherwise I would just do what I said before.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Shin

[molosku]

25 minutes ago, Shin said:

Also, if we really wanted it, really REALLY wanted it, we would take 5-meo every 2/3 months, and that's it.

If you don't do that, then you're aren't ready or you simply don't want it.

My plan B exactly, if nothing happens in the next 10 years  

@Shin

Its not readily available where I live, and currently I'm experimenting with other psychedelics which have a lot of wisdom to tap into. If you have some, do send it to my address

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by molosku

[Soulbass]

I once had a dream where a zen master teaches a disciple :

"Zen master : When we drink a tea and eat a biscuit, why does it feel good ?

Disciple : I don't know... I guess the molecules goes on the taste bud & lingual papillae... then the brain makes electricity & neurons bla bla...

Zen master : No ! It's emotions ! That's what is real : emotions"

(The zen master may be wrong, who knows, it's just a dream)

[Blissout]

2 hours ago, molosku said:

I really got to give credit to Rubert Spira for giving me a whole bunch of new ideas about what I probably should be doing. He speaks exactly about that: the mistransaltion of "atma-vicara"

Read Sadhu om, he understood ramana self inquiry the best

[Ascend]

5 hours ago, Shin said:

Also, if we really wanted it, really REALLY wanted it, we would take 5-meo every 2/3 months, and that's it.

If you don't do that, then you're aren't ready or you simply don't want it.

@molosku Why in 10 years ? Why not in 6 months ? Why not this month or this week ?

You see, pushing back things we want to do or are afraid to do, with good reasonings behind them is always a sign of self-deception.

I'm as guilty as anyone, I admit I'm a pussy, otherwise I would just do what I said before.

Wtf. Dude, DMT hasn't and will never make anyone enlightened. You're delusional if you think otherwise. Sure, it may be good to try once or twice, to experience something new and get experiential evidence of something you know intellectually, but beyond that it doesn't lead to higher realms.