Martin Ball says physical reality is real

[OBEler]

@Carl-Richard leo says fundamentally this reality is a dream but its different from your night dream, but fundamentally its mind stuff. 

Martin ball says something different. He even contradicts himself, because he also says you are god experiencing yourself, you create your own reality etc. But he also says physical reality is not dream because it exists outside your projections. Leo says, there is only your projection right now and thats the whole universe.

Wo is right? Martin ball did more 5 meo than leo. But leo makes way more sense. Although there could be really layers of imaginations so behind my projection of a tree there could be an imagined tree projected from God, resting in infinity.

Edited 8 hours ago by OBEler

[Bogdan]

So I see you guys stumbling on -"ok, something cannot exist outside of Reality, but something CAN exist outside of Consciousness"

This "something" is necessarily a form of God, yes? Since God is the ultimate Infinite Reality, The Only Thing that can take any form.

So you're saying that God can take a form and not be Conscious of that... But then don't you see you that breaks the meaning of Existing? Any "thing" is not only God taking that form, but God being Conscious of Itself in that form! If God is not Conscious of something, then by definition that thing does not exist (relatively).

God is God even in a state of Formlessness. Consciousness is GOD'S Consciousness of Itself, which just like God, is Infinite. Consciousness needing form to be valid or whatever is a human bias, I think.

 

Consciousness is Absolute because God can only be unconscious Relatively. Absolute unconsciousness is an oxymoron.

 

So again: Absolute Reality IS God's Consciousness of Itself. Relative reality IS God being Conscious of Itself taking a particular limited form. All relative "things" Are God, and all relative things ARE God being Conscious of Itself as them, in that form. "Outside of Consciousness" is a frickin concept, that You are holding right now, by virtue of being Conscious. 

[Wilhelm44]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can't realize that consciousness is absolute because it's relative. If you erase any relation, consciousness disappear. 

You are the only non believer in this conversation. Well, and me. All others have adopted a dogma, the absolute consciousness, and they believe that they realised it. That's how the human mind works.

So what is outside of consciousness ?

[cetus]

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

behind my projection of a tree there could be an imagined tree projected from God, resting in infinity.

This aligns with my direct experience of there being a ground of pure infinite potential. The "experience" of reality is a projection of that field of intelligence we call God. It continues even when we sleep. We call it dreaming.

I remember Leo saying very early on, when had his first retreat, he was sitting silently looking at the surrounding landscape after a long day of meditation and he also had a glimpse into this.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by cetus

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

46:00 he defines physical reality. Its something behind your projections.

@Leo Gura you say there is nothing behind your direct projection. But not even a projection behind a projection? So layers of projections? Like for example martin balls view, there is a projected Tree out there and I see it with my ego projection?

Infinity is the ground of everything. Infinity is not a thing.

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you literally believe you can turn into an alien reptile right now on camera? No. So you believe there is a distinction between waking reality and "dreams" in this sense. That's the distinction he is making. Dreams morph, waking reality is generally more stable. You can blur the boundaries with psychedelics and psychotic states and of course hypnagogic states, but you're of course aware that everyday sober waking reality is generally different from a dream in this sense. You will find your bike where you left it generally.

You will say "just because reality is a dream doesn't mean it doesn't have rules". Ok, let's talk about the one set of rules we can call waking reality. Martin just calls this set of rules "not dreamlike", which is perhaps not such a dumb idea. I've said it before: you're subscribed to a flat ontology. You want everything to be just "hallucination, imagination". Ok, but we can create sub-categories within that.

All distinctions are imagined by Consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

You guys are very confused on this issue, which means deeper Awakening and contemplation of ontology is needed.

[BuffaloBill]

could it be that it's because he's a scientist at heart that he still clings onto a materialist worldview? and maybe he doesn't want to say too whacky things he'll lose credibility in the scientific community.

Edited 4 hours ago by BuffaloBill

[Terell Kirby]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

could it be that it's because he's a scientist at heart that he still clings onto a materialist worldview? 

It's because Martin Ball is asleep. It's not that complex in my view.

99.999% of humans are asleep so should be no surprise.

Also nothing wrong with being asleep

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are very confused on this issue, which means deeper Awakening and contemplation of ontology is needed.

This for whatever reason seems to be a tough one for people to grasp. I could not for the life of me get my ex gf to understand that if this is a dream that it's also real. Because they are coming from the materialistic paradigm. So they contrast dreams with non-dreams. Even if you tell them about alternate paradigms it doesn't make any sense to them.  To them there is physical reality (real) and dreams (unreal)  they cannot seem to merge the two.

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

 

99.999% of humans are asleep so should be no surprise.

Also nothing wrong with being asleep

This is so true

 

[Davino]

Martin is limited and so are his books on most things, but some energetic work. There's greater intelligence and better Awakenings. Psychedelics are a great tool but no tool is ever guarantee that you'll avoid self-deception. You have to be very intelligent to decipher the mystery of what Reality, Self, consciousness and this going on actually is. There's no guarantee that your current understanding is truthful, on the contrary, epistemic responsibility tells us to question our assumptions for they are likely to be very wrong. But I can't be wrong on this! Yes, I can be wrong. I'm always one awakening away of being raped by truth, one has to understand this for any serious truth-seeking to happen.

[Davino]

I came up with a joke, imagine the mind of Peter Ralston with the psychedelic experience of Martin Ball, what would you get? Leo, ta-daa!

Horrible joke, I know

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Davino said:

I came up with a joke, imagine the mind of Peter Ralston with the psychedelic experience of Martin Ball, what would you get? Leo, ta-daa!

Horrible joke, I know

You would get some kind of freak alen thing. Like in the movie The Fly.  That would be fucked.up

 

[Davino]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You would get some kind of freak alen thing. Like in the movie The Fly.  That would be fucked.up

Elevating the conversation I see🪰