Martin Ball says physical reality is real

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If all there is are hallucinations then that becomes reality because of lack of alternatives.  

Yes. Good.

[Hojo]

3 hours ago, Jirh said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not denying that consciousness exists. Obviously, it does.

I'm doubting that consciousness is all that there is. There could be something outside of it, and I'm open to that possibility, even if most people are closed to it.

Conciousness is the outside. Its like saying there must be something outside this house. I'm saying conciousness is outside the house. And you are saying there must be something outside the outside of the house.

When you go outside you are outside. Theres no outside of the outside. When you go outside theres nothing but outside.

The grass on your lawn is as outside your house as the orions belt.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo

[Sandhu]

4 hours ago, Jirh said:

I don't know about others, but for me, hitting a limitation does not mean reaching a final conclusion. It means stalemate until clarity emerges, if it ever does.

What is inside and what is outside? Haven't yet you realized that these categories are mind construct. After awakening you realize that Consciousness is the most fundamental thing. It's saying as if you can there be other space than this space. Can there be something different and fundamental than space. No, space is fundamental in our realative world. You're thinking of consciousness as of some concept or theory. It is fundamental thing.

[Sandhu]

People with baseline low intelligence can't reach truth. They will be deluded. It's hard to accept but it is what it is. 

[Joseph Maynor]

When he discusses psychedelics it might be better to give actual trip reports rather than speak generally about certain psychedelics.

[Wilhelm44]

33 minutes ago, Sandhu said:

People with baseline low intelligence can't reach truth. They will be deluded. It's hard to accept but it is what it is. 

Truth is right in front of our noses. A junkie can wake up in a gutter right now.

God is not elitist in that way.

[Vynce]

1 hour ago, Sandhu said:

People with baseline low intelligence can't reach truth. They will be deluded. It's hard to accept but it is what it is. 

Very intelligent people are also dead asleep. Look at Joscha Bach or Christopher Langan. 200iq+ but are frightened to awake. Its all about the sincere commitment to actual truth, in whatever form it may come. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Vynce

[OBEler]

46:00 he defines physical reality. Its something behind your projections.

@Leo Gura you say there is nothing behind your direct projection. But not even a projection behind a projection? So layers of projections? Like for example martin balls view, there is a projected Tree out there and I see it with my ego projection?

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Jirh said:

It's still a hard problem, even with awakening considered.

Awakening just means realizing that consciousness is absolute. But that realization is self-biased, because it's coming from consciousness. We need something outside of consciousness to confirm that conclusion. But to us, there is nothing outside of consciousness. So we lack the required instruments to make a final conclusion.

The hard problem of consciousness negates materialism, but it doesn't confirm idealism.

You can't realize that consciousness is absolute because it's relative. If you erase any relation, consciousness disappear. 

You are the only non believer in this conversation. Well, and me. All others have adopted a dogma, the absolute consciousness, and they believe that they realised it. That's how the human mind works.

Edited 47 minutes ago by Breakingthewall

[Jirh]

3 hours ago, Hojo said:

I'm saying conciousness is outside the house.

I don't understand how some of you guys seem so confident about this. Personally, I only ever directly know the house and what's inside of it. I can't say anything about what's outside the house. I mean I could talk, but I wouldn't know.

[Jirh]

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

What is inside and what is outside? Haven't yet you realized that these categories are mind construct.

After awakening you realize that Consciousness is the most fundamental thing.

If inside and outside are categories and mind constructs, then so are before awakening and after awakening. So what's the point here?

[Hojo]

38 minutes ago, OBEler said:

46:00 he defines physical reality. Its something behind your projections.

@Leo Gura you say there is nothing behind your direct projection. But not even a projection behind a projection? So layers of projections? Like for example martin balls view, there is a projected Tree out there and I see it with my ego projection?

Think like reality is a tv set. You the ego are behind the tv set watching it, the seperation between reality and the universe. The seperation can realize that it's not part of the the tv at all. Then the seperation can see that it dosent exist and its a dissosation of the tv set and only the tv set exists.

God is none of those. There is something else.

God is literally something else.

Edited 15 minutes ago by Hojo